Johnny Buys an Airplane, did he run afoul of the rules

Jaybird180

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Johnny is such a nice fellow. When he was a young chap he started a lemonade stand in his neighborhood. Little did he know that little lemonade stand would make him a small fortune and he would be able to employ the other kids in his neighborhood.

So Johnny kept the business growing and one day a lawyer said that he needed to incorporate, hire a payroll and tax department and pay himself a W-2 salary, and so he did. Sourface, Inc. is what he called it.

When he was 17, he decided to take flying lessons, and so he did. After 40 training hours he got a Private Pilot license, Airplane Single Engine Land.

When he was 18, he moved out of his parents house and bought the big one down the block so he can continue to run his lemonade empire.

He realized that he needed a bank account now, so he got one with the same bank that keeps his money for the lemonade empire. Since he now has a bank account, his accountant told him that it would be easier and more cost effective to pay his salary by direct deposit instead of a paper check that he'd take to the local bank once per month.

One day he was thinking about expanding and he needed to scout some territory for expansion and maybe visit the lemon suppliers and the sugar suppliers and the water filtration guy. He thought about using an airplane to do it in.

Being the smart, frugal young man he is, he decided to go to the bank and get an aircraft loan, seeing that they advertised them at 0% for $200,000 so he can get something nice and shiny. The banker asked to see the revenues for Sourface, Inc and upon seeing the revenues, promptly recommended that he setup a child LLC that will own the airplane and a 3rd account where the loan proceeds would be placed. But Johnny was smarter than the banker. He knew that airplanes also required maintenance, fuel and that sometimes they break. So he setup a savings account attached to the LLC account.

Johnny realized as he was shopping that he was out of currency and that he should stay that way from now on. He found the perfect airplane and wrote a check for $200,000 smackers on the nose and the plane was his...er...owned by Airplane, LLC. Payment to the bank was $5,000/ month. So Johnny setup a monthly transfer from Sourface, Inc to Airplane, LLC to take care of that.

After some number crunching he arrived at the operating expense of $100/hr to operate the airplane, which included a maintenance reserve and fuel expenses.

Johnny being the simple young man he is, decided that 4 hours per month should be enough to maintain proficiency. So he included that in an agreement document that Sourface, Inc will pay minimum $400/mo for proficiency training and any "fun flying" hours, Johnny will pay out of his personal account. Any trips to see suppliers or scout new territory, of course Sourface, Inc will pay to Airplane, LLC at the rate of $100/hr. Sourface owns an insurance policy on the aircraft and Johnny is the named pilot.

Johnny, the Private Pilot hasn't gone anywhere yet in 6 months of having this aircraft as an asset and the accountant is asking about the $5400/month transfers from Sourface, Inc to Airplane, LLC which only $5000 he can account for because he has a $200,000 aircraft on the other side of the balance sheet that he diligently depreciates at tax time.

Is everything Kosher with the FAAs Private Pilot rules and limitations?
 
I think that the FAA is the wrong federal organization that Johnny should be worrying about.
 
How much for a lemonade?
 
I think Johnny needs an attorney....... And enough cash to bribe....Er....pay off the tax man.
 
Johnny, the Private Pilot hasn't gone anywhere yet in 6 months of having this aircraft as an asset and the accountant is asking about the $5400/month transfers from Sourface, Inc to Airplane, LLC which only $5000 he can account for because he has a $200,000 aircraft on the other side of the balance sheet that he diligently depreciates at tax time.

Not an accountant but wouldn't the LLC have a balance of $2400 in cash since there were no operating expenses for 6 months?

Also have no idea what this has to do with Private Pilot rules and limitations unless you are referring to who can pay for expenses, reimbursement, pro rata and all that.
 
This question was probably on my PPL exam..I probably got it wrong there...
 
I suspect the poor guy is on the wrong side of the FAA, the IRS, and the Insurance company.

But this is only post #10
 
While your fact pattern is a bit difficult to follow, Johnny's probably fine from the FAA standpoint so long as he's not hauling any passengers with him and perhaps even more so if he's the sole member of the LLC. IRS, etc. is a totally different animal.
 
Why doesn't johnny do what drug company's do?! Overcharge by sometimes a thousand percent or more and really stick it to the poor and middle class. Johnny will be just fine.
 
Why doesn't johnny do what drug company's do?! Overcharge by sometimes a thousand percent or more and really stick it to the poor and middle class. Johnny will be just fine.
That only works if Johnny has enough to pay the lobbyists, In which case, Johnny would have bought a GV, not a $200,000 piston single.
 
Why doesn't johnny do what drug company's do?! Overcharge by sometimes a thousand percent or more and really stick it to the poor and middle class. Johnny will be just fine.

Jimmy, this is not the SZ. Take it somewhere else.
 
LLCs are transparent to the IRS, it just protects the parent LLC from litigation, the parent is simply a generic small business and cannot claim the airplane is a business expense without following same rules are business car would have to. Practicing your driving is not a business use, neither is practicing flying...Johnny better get a tax attorney and quickly redo his taxes...
 
Johnny is such a nice fellow. When he was a young chap he started a lemonade stand in his neighborhood. Little did he know that little lemonade stand would make him a small fortune and he would be able to employ the other kids in his neighborhood.

So Johnny kept the business growing and one day a lawyer said that he needed to incorporate, hire a payroll and tax department and pay himself a W-2 salary, and so he did. Sourface, Inc. is what he called it.

When he was 17, he decided to take flying lessons, and so he did. After 40 training hours he got a Private Pilot license, Airplane Single Engine Land.

When he was 18, he moved out of his parents house and bought the big one down the block so he can continue to run his lemonade empire.

He realized that he needed a bank account now, so he got one with the same bank that keeps his money for the lemonade empire. Since he now has a bank account, his accountant told him that it would be easier and more cost effective to pay his salary by direct deposit instead of a paper check that he'd take to the local bank once per month.

One day he was thinking about expanding and he needed to scout some territory for expansion and maybe visit the lemon suppliers and the sugar suppliers and the water filtration guy. He thought about using an airplane to do it in.

Being the smart, frugal young man he is, he decided to go to the bank and get an aircraft loan, seeing that they advertised them at 0% for $200,000 so he can get something nice and shiny. The banker asked to see the revenues for Sourface, Inc and upon seeing the revenues, promptly recommended that he setup a child LLC that will own the airplane and a 3rd account where the loan proceeds would be placed. But Johnny was smarter than the banker. He knew that airplanes also required maintenance, fuel and that sometimes they break. So he setup a savings account attached to the LLC account.

Johnny realized as he was shopping that he was out of currency and that he should correct that and that he should stay current that way from now on. He found the perfect airplane and wrote a check for $200,000 smackers on the nose and the plane was his...er...owned by Airplane, LLC. Payment to the bank was $5,000/ month. So Johnny setup a monthly transfer from Sourface, Inc to Airplane, LLC to take care of that.

After some number crunching he arrived at the operating expense of $100/hr to operate the airplane, which included a maintenance reserve and fuel expenses.

Johnny being the simple young man he is, decided that 4 hours per month should be enough to maintain proficiency. So he included that in an agreement document that Sourface, Inc will pay minimum $400/mo for proficiency training and any "fun flying" hours, Johnny will pay out of his personal account. Any trips to see suppliers or scout new territory, of course Sourface, Inc will pay to Airplane, LLC at the rate of $100/hr. Sourface owns an insurance policy on the aircraft and Johnny is the named pilot.

Johnny, the Private Pilot hasn't gone anywhere yet in 6 months of having this aircraft as an asset and the accountant is asking about the $5400/month transfers from Sourface, Inc to Airplane, LLC which only $5000 he can account for because he has a $200,000 aircraft on the other side of the balance sheet that he diligently depreciates at tax time.

Is everything Kosher with the FAAs Private Pilot rules and limitations?

I screwed up the story. :mad2:The corrected version is in bold italics above.
 
I'm sorry, the correct answer is "Who gives a ****?"
 
LLCs are transparent to the IRS, it just protects the parent LLC from litigation, the parent is simply a generic small business and cannot claim the airplane is a business expense without following same rules are business car would have to. Practicing your driving is not a business use, neither is practicing flying...Johnny better get a tax attorney and quickly redo his taxes...

$400/mo for proficiency training and any "fun flying" hours, Johnny will pay out of his personal account.

Why wouldn't practicing flying? Would that be any different that getting paid to maintain a CDL or the continueing Ed stuff lawyers have to do? I realize its not directly related to his business function. It would also be easy enough for him to just keep current by visiting a client once a month and doubling up.

The personal account should take care of fun flying.
 
Did he do anything wrong with the FAA? Yes, he busted the bravo because he didn't have a clearance and got an ATC instruction steering him into it. Other than that, no problem.

OTOH, Johnny really needs to keep this quiet with the IRS until he can talk with a tax attorney.
 
Is this some sort of issue spotter? I'm too old and too far out of law school for another one of these.

Seems to me that Johnny is well served to go catch up on $2,400 worth of "proficiency" flying before the end of the tax year, and the accountant will be happy. Maybe spend some of it on an IPC with a CFII rather than just fuel and landing fees.

What is Johhny's relationship with Airplane, LLC? Is he a member? An employee? A hired pilot?
 
I'm sorry, the correct answer is "Who gives a ****?"

That is the correct answer.

The company paying for flight time is part of Johnny's compensation. No problem.
 
I think Johnny could help is cause with that other agency if he was enjoying the benefits of the NBAA small aircraft exemption . Johnny should google it , it worked great for my friend Tom.
 
Not enough info to go on, but possibly not kosher with the IRS. If the $400/mo is reported as taxable income, he's might be ok, but I'm not a CPA, and I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn Express in over a year.
 
All of you are missing the boat. All of you. What was glaringly omitted from Johnny's operations plan?

That's right, FDA approval. He's running a commercial beverage production facility without ANY licencing.
 
All of you are missing the boat. All of you. What was glaringly omitted from Johnny's operations plan?

That's right, FDA approval. He's running a commercial beverage production facility without ANY licencing.

C'mon, take the money and run...

Oops, wrong thread.
 
Why wouldn't practicing flying? Would that be any different that getting paid to maintain a CDL or the continueing Ed stuff lawyers have to do? I realize its not directly related to his business function. It would also be easy enough for him to just keep current by visiting a client once a month and doubling up.



The personal account should take care of fun flying.


Because it's not directly related, if he went to lemonade school, that would be deductible. Like I said, same rules as a company car, you cannot deduct practice time, or the money you spent on a driving school to make you a better driver.
If Johnny opens a flight training school and becomes a CFI, now he can deduct his aircraft expenses.
This is similar to the thread on deducting your
PPL, IT, CPL....before you start your CFI career.
 
Screw Johnny's Lemonade. I think someone needs a couple of Mike's Lemonades.
 
Screw Johnny's Lemonade. I think someone needs a couple of Mike's Lemonades.

Just don't chug 5 of them at once and go flying like some jackwagon on this board did.
 
Johnny is fine with the FAA, but Johnny is going to end up meeting with the IRS because he handled the personal use the difficult way that raises flags at the IRS.

Better to have Sourface lease the airplane direct from Airplane LLC and be in ful time operational control and pay all expenses maintaining the plane as a business tool. When Johnny want to fly the plane personally, then Johnny rents the plane from Sourface for $100hr.
 
Basic economics. YOU take your inane remarks there instead.

There was no relevant or constructive information in that post, it was completely inane. The issue s not one of basic economics here, but rather one of how to best structure the dual modality of use so that it is not only legal with the FAA, but doesn't trigger an audit with IRS even more importantly. When you start start splitting aircraft costs between business and personal use, that hits a flag at the IRS. However if the business has a flight department with a lease on the aircraft, and they decide to add revenues by renting the plane out to increase utilization value, that's a completely benign business transaction as long as the rental value is a fair market value, i.e. You aren't renting a Bonanza to yourself for $20hr wet. Since all the money is Johnny's anyway, it doesn't matter if he rents it to himself for $200 hr.
 
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