Job Ideas

Rarefied

Rarefied

Line Up and Wait
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Sep 14, 2016
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Broke Engineer
Another thread inspired me to make this...

Painful to say, but I've been looking for work for about 9 months now. I'm easily 1300+ job applications in with a background in real estate development & finance (primarily as the lead analyst on new development and then later asset management of a real estate portfolio). I have an undergrad degree in business (focused on real estate) from a top state school and an MBA from another top state school. The development world is pretty tough right now at least in the South East so I've been applying to just about anything close to my background (general finance & analyst jobs, any asset management job, etc.). I've mostly been met with silence when it comes to online applications, and the few companies that do get back to me either say they are delisting the job due to the market or that there was a large amount of competition and someone more senior than me was hired. Local networking and a number of lunches with business owners within my realm has also ended up with literally all saying they liked my resume but are not hiring due to the current economic climate.

The good part is I'm in a situation where my living expenses are unusually low, and I was saving quit well prior to leaving my last job, so I've been fortunate enough to keep focus on finding a job that fits my background as opposed to having to do a random low paying job to pay the bills, as well as spending time with family. I've also been trying to focus on finding a job that's within a couple hours of my family (or remote, which seems impossible in this job market), however easily 30% of my applications have gone to jobs many states away with the same result.

Naturally all of this has been very humbling, and makes me question what else I could do that would hire me. While I like flying, I've never had a desire to do it for money. I did apply to a small airport manager job where I actually had the outgoing airport manager as a reference, however the hiring for that job seems to have stalled. I have a pretty substantial background and understanding of engineering, technology, and cars, but no formal certifications (other than a couple years of engineering school) on any of that. I like being up and away from a desk at least part of the day, so I love the idea of working in one of those fields as opposed to being an analyst again but not sure how I'd get there with my background.

Anyhow, a lot of words. But if any of you have suggestions for me, even just companies that you know are actively trying to hire, it would certainly be appreciated. Considering its been 9 months now, I'll take everything under consideration.
 
I don't know anything about real estate or finance. But I did hear an interesting thing the other day about my field, IT, and it's that according to somebody's study 70% of people hired in IT have some sort of inside connection. The somebody knows somebody that knows somebody kind of thing. So my only advice, which you've probably already done, is reach out to everybody you know or have known and ask them if they have any friends or relatives or neighbors that are in your field.
 
It may not be of interest to you, but trades are becoming very desirable and well paid, and AI/robotics will have a negligible effect on those professions for 10+ years.
 
Albany Tom said:
I don't know anything about real estate or finance. But I did hear an interesting thing the other day about my field, IT, and it's that according to somebody's study 70% of people hired in IT have some sort of inside connection. The somebody knows somebody that knows somebody kind of thing. So my only advice, which you've probably already done, is reach out to everybody you know or have known and ask them if they have any friends or relatives or neighbors that are in your field.
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I think Networking is the key more than ever right now. Feels like the days of throwing your App at a website and getting a call are over.
 
Are you a member of any relevant professional societies? Those can provide networking opportunities.

Have you considered opening your own business? Is there some market niche that isn’t being served?

You might try taking a class or two, as that can also grow your network, and instructors may know of job opportunities.
 
Half Fast said:
Are you a member of any relevant professional societies? Those can provide networking opportunities.

Have you considered opening your own business? Is there some market niche that isn’t being served?

You might try taking a class or two, as that can also grow your network, and instructors may know of job opportunities.
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Opening my own business full time is certainly a dream of mine. However what business that would be that’s anything different than what already exists has not yet come to me. My idea has been to get re employed to pay the bills and work on potential businesses on the side until it’s big enough to sustain me.
 
One route you might consider is contracting.

Even though some places are hesitant to add full-time headcount, they may be totally OK with adding someone as a contractor. That's what I'm doing.

Once I decided to start winding down my old biz and start working for someone else again (but didn't want to dive back into my old job just yet), I set aside like $3k to go and catch-up IRL with old colleagues. A flight to SF, NYC and some lunches in Chicago. A month later I had a contracting gig in place. That was money well spent (IRL catch-ups are much better than emails and quick calls).

I think this works best if you're mid/senior level. If you're earlier in your career it might be a tougher sell.

Separately one thing I think is important is making sure people know you're remaining mentally active in your space and not getting rusty during your time off. Getting a website and publishing ideas, research or other honestly helpful stuff can be good for someone sitting out (not AI slop). Stuff that is meaningful. It also gives you a reason to stay in contact with people in the industry.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Separately one thing I think is important is making sure people know you're remaining mentally active in your space and not getting rusty during your time off. Getting a website and publishing ideas, research or other honestly helpful stuff can be good for someone sitting out (not AI slop). Stuff that is meaningful. It also gives you a reason to stay in contact with people in the industry.
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:yeahthat:

Another good reason for taking a class or two, as mentioned above.

If professional certifications are a thing in your biz, adding a cert or two during your down time at least makes you look productive, and you'll feel a bit happier with yourself, too.

Or, you could just retire. Personally, I wish I'd done the retirement thing when I was young and energetic and saved working for when I got old and decrepit.
:biggrin:
 
Looks like you are in Savannah. There are likely quite a few airbnb vacation homes there. I suspect there are many owners who are absentee or just don't want the hassle of managing their airbnb. You could put up an add on facebook or craigslist offering to serve as a local "cohost". 15% of gross is typical for a co-host. Pick up a few contracts or one owner with a few homes and you can make a "living wage" for minimal effort while being your own boss. Duties include answering emails from guests, owners, occasional inspection of properties and scheduling maintenance when required.

Alternately, if your not opposed to retooling, going back to school for a more marketable field is an option.
 
Matthew K said:
Opening my own business full time is certainly a dream of mine. However what business that would be that’s anything different than what already exists has not yet come to me. My idea has been to get re employed to pay the bills and work on potential businesses on the side until it’s big enough to sustain me.
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I did just that for the past 5 years and have put in my two weeks notice last week at my W2. Our business is in Real Estate. While I can’t give you advice on your next job I can certainly talk with you about mindset and building the next business.
 
FORANE said:
Looks like you are in Savannah. There are likely quite a few airbnb vacation homes there. I suspect there are many owners who are absentee or just don't want the hassle of managing their airbnb. You could put up an add on facebook or craigslist offering to serve as a local "cohost". 15% of gross is typical for a co-host. Pick up a few contracts or one owner with a few homes and you can make a "living wage" for minimal effort while being your own boss. Duties include answering emails from guests, owners, occasional inspection of properties and scheduling maintenance when required.

Alternately, if your not opposed to retooling, going back to school for a more marketable field is an option.
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Matter of fact this is what we do and I was able to quit my W2 as well as my wife. We have systems and teams in place, we own a good many of our own and manage for others even multiple states away. We have a team for guest coms, handymen, cleaners, and an ops manger. And growing like weeds right now.
 
simtech said:
Matter of fact this is what we do and I was able to quit my W2 as well as my wife. We have systems and teams in place, we own a good many of our own and manage for others even multiple states away. We have a team for guest coms, handymen, cleaners, and an ops manger. And growing like weeds right now.
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Understand that when the economy crashes the first thing people cut out is discretionary spending on big items like vacations. Our Airbnbs and those of others we know both as owners and managers have experienced a steady year over year decline in revenue since the post COVID wide open year of very high occupancy. Back in the years after 2008 the occupancy was very low for a few years. I anticipate the same to occur after the next crash.
 
Have you ever thought about approaching a military contractor? They have plenty of non-tactical administrative positions just like any other company, plus analytical positions where an engineering background would be an asset. I say check some of those out because nobody else does. Your job wouldn't be local though.
 
Perhaps Business Undergrad and MBA dont offer much to the world?

Where can you add value to the world and a company?

Why did you "leave" your last job? Did you quit or get fired?

What else would you consider or not consider? How hungry are you?

Are you on food stamps or other assistance yet?

What is different about you? Different than the rest?
 
You don’t need a new idea to start a business, actually makes perfect sense to copy an existing successful business model, then you scale and adjust once you know the ins and outs.
 
I’m going to be brutally honest and say what I would say to one of my own children if they were in the same situation, take a double dose of humble and get a job, any job. Preferably an entry level position in a company that works in your area of expertise, if you truly are an expert in it and qualified for a management position it will show through and you’ll be promoted quickly. A cork always floats to the top no matter where it starts. The longer you go without being gainfully employed or generating provable income from private ventures the harder it will be to find a job. At nine months of unemployment your potential earnings even if you were to have spent your time as a line worker on a factory production line will soon be be approaching $50,000 of lost potential income. If I were a buisness owner would I hire a “manager” who rationalizes this as a good decision? Absolutely not. The world is full of “cousin Eddie’s holding out for a management position”. Get a job asap, even if it is outside of your field or “beneath” your qualifications.
 
Flatiowa said:
I’m going to be brutally honest and say what I would say to one of my own children if they were in the same situation, take a double dose of humble and get a job, any job. Preferably an entry level position in a company that works in your area of expertise, if you truly are an expert in it and qualified for a management position it will show through and you’ll be promoted quickly. A cork always floats to the top no matter where it starts. The longer you go without being gainfully employed or generating provable income from private ventures the harder it will be to find a job. At nine months of unemployment your potential earnings even if you were to have spent your time as a line worker on a factory production line will soon be be approaching $50,000 of lost potential income. If I were a buisness owner would I hire a “manager” who rationalizes this as a good decision? Absolutely not. The world is full of “cousin Eddie’s holding out for a management position”. Get a job asap, even if it is outside of your field or “beneath” your qualifications.
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Also, you don't really have to be that good. I got to the very top of the ladder in IT because mediocrity rises to the top and if there is one thing I am really good at, it is mediocracy.
 
Matthew K said:
The good part is I'm in a situation where my living expenses are unusually low, and I was saving quit well prior to leaving my last job, so I've been fortunate enough to keep focus on finding a job that fits my background as opposed to having to do a random low paying job to pay the bills, as well as spending time with family. I've also been trying to focus on finding a job that's within a couple hours of my family (or remote, which seems impossible in this job market), however easily 30% of my applications have gone to jobs many states away with the same result.
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Yeah, the job market sucks right now.

Where exactly are you located? Where are you willing to relocate to? Those questions are going to drive the decision tree more than anything else.
 
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Flatiowa said:
I’m going to be brutally honest and say what I would say to one of my own children if they were in the same situation, take a double dose of humble and get a job, any job. Preferably an entry level position in a company that works in your area of expertise, if you truly are an expert in it and qualified for a management position it will show through and you’ll be promoted quickly. A cork always floats to the top no matter where it starts. The longer you go without being gainfully employed or generating provable income from private ventures the harder it will be to find a job. At nine months of unemployment your potential earnings even if you were to have spent your time as a line worker on a factory production line will soon be be approaching $50,000 of lost potential income. If I were a buisness owner would I hire a “manager” who rationalizes this as a good decision? Absolutely not. The world is full of “cousin Eddie’s holding out for a management position”. Get a job asap, even if it is outside of your field or “beneath” your qualifications.
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Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree w/this mindset for a career in finance.

It's a bigger red flag if someone hits RESET on their career and rewinds 10-20 years of progress and goes back to entry level. That's if you can even find an entry level position, which you likely can't because people know you'd only be using that job as a layover point while you find your next gig (not to mention the applicant pool for entry level is easily 10x that of experienced hires, so breaking through the noise is difficult). But even if your resume did stand out to them, most recruiters and hiring managers will realize that you're not genuinely looking to stay. Additionally, you'll almost certainly be much more expensive in that role than a truly entry level person.

If it were me and I were trying to stay in the field, I'd just double down on the search for a lateral-ish move (slight up or down). Only if I was looking for a true industry career change would I entertain the idea of taking a significant step down.

Of course, necessity will always prevail. If personal finances dictate income is needed immediately -- you do what you have to do.
 
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9 months and over 1,000 applications…with zero offers…nor explanation of why prior employment was terminated.. it might be time for a hard reset of expectations.
 
I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned yet, but there are firms like Challenger, Gray & Christmas that specialize in getting folks into the right roles.

There’s also firms like Blue Signal that are headhunters for engineering firms.
 
Flatiowa said:
9 months and over 1,000 applications…with zero offers…nor explanation of why prior employment was terminated.. it might be time for a hard reset of expectations.
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I don't necessarily disagree, but it's hard to judge without knowing more about his situation.

With no offense intended to the OP, I suspect a lot of that frustrating result might just be due to going about it in an inefficient way.

For example -- the whole 1000 applications thing. Why so many apps? That is akin to the frustrating job-search strategy endured by so many new college grads. As a professional/experienced hire your greatest value aside from your experience is your network. That's what I'd be leaning on (and my network's network!).

I'd leave the mass-application approach to the college kids who have no contacts to leverage and thus have to play the numbers game by bombarding companies with apps.
 
With that many applications and so few interviews/offers its time to hire a professional resume service to review your resume and give you tips on how to tailor it for each job you are applying for. Its unfortunate but most companies use an automated service to screen applications before your resume even gets to a recruiter or hiring manager. Not having the right keywords on your resume or having some unusual formatting that trips up the screening program will keep you from getting your resume in front of someone who will actually read it.
 
I have been considering looking for a new position, so I have reached out to a few head hunters I know and received some advice since the job search industry has gone through some fairly radical changes the past few years.
1. Resumes are screened by rule engines and AI based systems now. You need to spend the time and money to work with a firm that helps you get the interview. Look for one with a "success guarantee". They should be gathering the raw data on the terms and phrases used in the open job pool, and updating this on a regular basis.
2. Just for grins and giggles, two of them ran my existing resume through which has landed me multiple interviews, and I failed to make the short list, or even the flagged for review list. I was effectively blocked. e.g. The rule engine and/or the AI based system kicked me out. I would not be surprised if you are running into this type of issue.
3. You public profile, such as LinkedIn, for many industries is critical. It will need the same attention as your resume.

Good luck,

Tim
 
Flatiowa said:
nor explanation of why prior employment was terminated
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Might as well at least address it since its been mentioned a couple times. I decided to leave my prior company on my own for various good reasons not worth getting into on the internet. But I do take pride in saying it was on good terms, with proper transition time, with letters of recommendation, and I'm completely eligible to be rehired if I desired. The relative irony is it was a place where I could've worked my whole life with pretty good confidence in job security.

I had a couple small firms that with no input on my side reach out to me and were willing to hire me within a couple months of leaving which fit my desired time frame, but those blew up in my face and they froze hiring when the tariff drama got announced and their still dealing with that.

To state the obvious I thought finding something new would be easier than it has been (considering anyone with a pulse was getting hired from 2021ish-2024). Its also probably important to mention that an outsized chunk of my stated application number have been for remote positions, which took a while for me to get over that dream.

fasteddie said:
Yeah, the job market sucks right now.

Where exactly are you located? Where are you willing to relocate to? Those questions are going to drive the decision tree more than anything else.
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This has definitely been part of the calculation for sure. The companies I mentioned that I interviewed with but someone with more experience beat me out on were in completely different states. I've been trying my absolute hardest to not have to move, thus part of why its taking so long. But there are certainly days where I apply far away and that's definitely where more jobs are. While I know that, part of me creating this forum thread was also to generate ideas on things outside what I was doing, as I'd like to integrate more of the things I like to do into my everyday.
 
kmacht said:
Not having the right keywords on your resume or having some unusual formatting that trips up the screening program will keep you from getting your resume in front of someone who will actually read it.
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In my personal experience I have to absolutely agree. The interviews I've gotten have primarily been where the hiring managers explicitly told me they are refusing to use AI to filter applications and called me because they actually looked at my resume and liked it. I've tried tailoring my resume with the assistance of Chatgpt and an HR manager friend, and have added keywords, etc., and it does seem to help sometimes, but obviously not enough yet. Any recommendations on a professional service to use?
 
TCABM said:
I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned yet, but there are firms like Challenger, Gray & Christmas that specialize in getting folks into the right roles.

There’s also firms like Blue Signal that are headhunters for engineering firms.
Click to expand...
Appreciate the tip on this. Anyone with other firms they've had good experience with would certainly be appreciated too. I haven't tried any yet as I genuinely don't know anyone that's used services like this.
 
Matthew K said:
Appreciate the tip on this. Anyone with other firms they've had good experience with would certainly be appreciated too. I haven't tried any yet as I genuinely don't know anyone that's used services like this.
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I do some mentoring with transitioning veterans. The most common piece of advice I give is three things impact the job search; location, salary, and title/role. You get to pick one of those and the other two are where you don’t get much flexibility.

If you want to stay in your current location, you’re stuck with the jobs that are needed and the pay for your locality.
 
TCABM said:
I do some mentoring with transitioning veterans. The most common piece of advice I give is three things impact the job search; location, salary, and title/role. You get to pick one of those and the other two are where you don’t get much flexibility.

If you want to stay in your current location, you’re stuck with the jobs that are needed and the pay for your locality.
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Agreed. And I've know that from the start and its been why I've had more patience vs having moved across the country for a job already. I have been networking (grabbing lunch, etc.) locally more lately since giving up on the remote work dream, and will try to continue to do so, so hoping one of those turn into something.
mandm said:
You don’t need a new idea to start a business, actually makes perfect sense to copy an existing successful business model, then you scale and adjust once you know the ins and outs.
Click to expand...
Certainly a fair point. Considering I've underwrote a number of different business types at this point and dug into the finances on countless companies, I certainly have some ideas, but its genuinely been a struggle to come to one where I could start on very limited capital and have a conviction for it. Maybe I have some blinders on I need to reexamine.
 
Matthew K said:
Might as well at least address it since its been mentioned a couple times. I decided to leave my prior company on my own for various good reasons not worth getting into on the internet. But I do take pride in saying it was on good terms, with proper transition time, with letters of recommendation, and I'm completely eligible to be rehired if I desired. The relative irony is it was a place where I could've worked my whole life with pretty good confidence in job security.

I had a couple small firms that with no input on my side reach out to me and were willing to hire me within a couple months of leaving which fit my desired time frame, but those blew up in my face and they froze hiring when the tariff drama got announced and their still dealing with that.

To state the obvious I thought finding something new would be easier than it has been (considering anyone with a pulse was getting hired from 2021ish-2024). Its also probably important to mention that an outsized chunk of my stated application number have been for remote positions, which took a while for me to get over that dream.


This has definitely been part of the calculation for sure. The companies I mentioned that I interviewed with but someone with more experience beat me out on were in completely different states. I've been trying my absolute hardest to not have to move, thus part of why its taking so long. But there are certainly days where I apply far away and that's definitely where more jobs are. While I know that, part of me creating this forum thread was also to generate ideas on things outside what I was doing, as I'd like to integrate more of the things I like to do into my everyday.
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If you side step interview questions the same way as this non answer I'd think you were hiding something and be suspicious.

If this were me, I'd hear all my elders telling me how stupid it was to leave a job without another.
 
4RNB said:
If you side step interview questions the same way as this non answer I'd think you were hiding something and be suspicious.

If this were me, I'd hear all my elders telling me how stupid it was to leave a job without another.
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Only a fool would give out more details for all the internet to see. Everything I said is still true. Yes you can go on and tell me how stupid I was. How does that help anything today though?
 
@Matthew K

I have NOT used this firm. I have only heard their pitch and it is good, better than a couple of others I have had. I have not done any background research or review checks yet, I literally got the pitch end of last week and that research is still on my todo list.
I suggest contacting them and see what you think: Chui Senanayake < chui at thejobhelpers.com>
Chui did give me permission to post his contact information.


Good luck,

Tim
 
My retirement dream job was to be a door greeter at Walmart.

But now they just hire young folks, dang kids...
 
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