It has happened again...

AuntPeggy

AuntPeggy

Final Approach
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Namaste
Maybe I'm being too blunt, but there is a special place in hell for people who do this kind of stuff to children. Period.
 
GCA319 said:
Maybe I'm being too blunt, but there is a special place in hell for people who do this kind of stuff to children. Period.
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Yeah, I have a particularly blunt opinion on punishment for those who kill children. Death sentence, period.
 
It takes just a few seconds. All involved live in hell.
 
And it will continue to happen.

I mostly agree with Bill - the death sentence isn't severe enough, though.
 
AuntPeggy said:
A University of Tulsa student reportedly shook his 6-week-old son to death last weekend because he wanted the infant to stop crying, police said Monday.
Sebastian Aguirre Jr., 22, was charged Monday with child abuse murder in the death of Etienne Aguirre, who suffered a traumatic brain injury.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crim...cle_584888f8-9f64-518c-9582-d1b90dea0c00.html

It happened to my grandson.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=404576

Don't ever shake a child.
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I am very sorry for your loss. That is heartbreaking.
 
I just read your story AP, and my heart is broken. I have a 7 week old, and sometimes he cries a LOT. Inconsolable crying.. feed him, burp him, change his diaper, hold him, cuddle him.. sometimes nothing works... I cannot ever imagine doing anything to harm him. I have lost my patience exactly once, and i asked my wife to come finish changing him (he wouldn't hold still-ish), and walked away to get my composure back.
 
sferguson524 said:
I just read your story AP, and my heart is broken. I have a 7 week old, and sometimes he cries a LOT. Inconsolable crying.. feed him, burp him, change his diaper, hold him, cuddle him.. sometimes nothing works... I cannot ever imagine doing anything to harm him. I have lost my patience exactly once, and i asked my wife to come finish changing him (he wouldn't hold still-ish), and walked away to get my composure back.
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I think all parents have had this sort of thing happen. That's natural. It does get easier with practice, but everyone has times when they need to walk away for a minute.
 
And on the original topic, i'd love 15 min alone in a room with this guy. I think I'd tear him limb from limb.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I think all parents have had this sort of thing happen. That's natural. It does get easier with practice, but everyone has times when they need to walk away for a minute.
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I'm pretty sure you're correct on all parents. That's why it's critical to have a support network (a spouse is an excellent start, but not sufficient, I think). Ask for help when you have to have a break. Take breaks when you can arrange it. Have people to talk to about how you feel (Yes, I'm really a guy, but I've learned a lot). Kids are hugely rewarding. And hugely frustrating.

John
Father of 5.
 
My older daughter was colicky for about four months when she was an infant. One of the only things that would stop her from crying was movement. We'd pick her up and start walking, first around the house, then outside if the weather cooperated, sometimes on a treadmill. After a while that wasn't enough, so we'd start walking up and down stairs, or rocking or bouncing while walking. My rule on that was to always sway or bounce with my entire body to make sure I wasn't moving her too violently.

For those of you who are ready to tear this guy apart, you have to remember that this most likely occurred out of frustration, not malice. This is a tough world we live in, life is precious to us but it's cheap as dirt to nature. People are physically able to reproduce long before they are mentally ready to become parents, and this was probably a case of too much too soon for this young man, who most likely lost his temper.
 
I didn't know that Aunt Peggy. I'm sorry.
 
FormerHangie said:
My older daughter was colicky for about four months when she was an infant. One of the only things that would stop her from crying was movement. We'd pick her up and start walking, first around the house, then outside if the weather cooperated, sometimes on a treadmill. After a while that wasn't enough, so we'd start walking up and down stairs, or rocking or bouncing while walking. My rule on that was to always sway or bounce with my entire body to make sure I wasn't moving her too violently.

For those of you who are ready to tear this guy apart, you have to remember that this most likely occurred out of frustration, not malice. This is a tough world we live in, life is precious to us but it's cheap as dirt to nature. People are physically able to reproduce long before they are mentally ready to become parents, and this was probably a case of too much too soon for this young man, who most likely lost his temper.
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So, if i decide to kill someone out of frustration vs. malice, i deserve some sort of benefit of the doubt? WTF kind of thinking is that? This was a KID who TRUSTED his dad to take care of him...
 
sferguson524 said:
So, if i decide to kill someone out of frustration vs. malice, i deserve some sort of benefit of the doubt? WTF kind of thinking is that? This was a KID who TRUSTED his dad to take care of him...
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I'm suggesting he get jail time rather than being drawn and quartered. I'd suggest it's civilized thinking.
 
What will bestowing violence on the guy do? Will it accomplish anything? He will punish himself for life, your judgement is not required.
 
My wife and I struggled to have a child - it took us years, several doctors, 4 rounds of in-vitro, a couple miscarriages, and just a hair over $100k to finally have a healthy happy 4-month-old little boy at home now. I would gladly be the one to inflict severe bodily harm on anyone that would do so to a child. Just gimme the chance.
 
So sad, everybody looking for a reason or chance to inflict violence.:nonod:
 
I was talking with one of our county commissioners the other day and mentioned the Stonehenge. He had no idea what I was talking about. Really. (just trying to draw a parallel)

It's quite likely that many young, uneducated, rural kids have no idea what shaken baby syndrome is either, especially if they're third world country immigrants and haven't been here long.

Not saying that's the case here.

Not saying that's an excuse.

Just saying that, in some cases, the potential outcome may not have been known and/or contemplated.
 
Henning said:
So sad, everybody looking for a reason or chance to inflict violence.:nonod:
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That is our society! We are viscous and cruel by nature. Americans are especially brutal. Remove all of our luxuries and you will see a different side of American society. :no:
 
timwinters said:
Just saying that, in some cases, the potential outcome may not have been known and/or contemplated.
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It's not ignorance that's the problem - it's the willingness to hurt another person that is completely defenseless. There is no justification, period, end of discussion.
 
Henning said:
What will bestowing violence on the guy do? Will it accomplish anything? He will punish himself for life, your judgement is not required.
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I scratch my head over the same question ever time I see a story like this and see all the commenters talking about inflicting the most creatively horrific penalties they can think of on the person.

People who genuinely see them as the good guys... talking about inflicting horrific punishments and torture on someone. Welcome to being part of the human race.
 
airguy said:
My wife and I struggled to have a child - it took us years, several doctors, 4 rounds of in-vitro, a couple miscarriages, and just a hair over $100k to finally have a healthy happy 4-month-old little boy at home now. I would gladly be the one to inflict severe bodily harm on anyone that would do so to a child. Just gimme the chance.
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airguy said:
It's not ignorance that's the problem - it's the willingness to hurt another person that is completely defenseless. There is no justification, period, end of discussion.
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Um, okay ... :dunno:
 
We frequently have "drive by" shootings here in Memphis where innocent bystanders (sometimes children) are killed for no reason at all. It is sad that our society has come to this, and that someone, especially a parent, would shake a young child so violently that it kills the child.
 
We are just hairless apes. Most of the time it is the new partner shaking the kid, when it is the dad I have to wonder if they question paternity. When it is the mom, well she probably has a mightier ape, then the dad, sniffing around.
 
somorris said:
We frequently have "drive by" shootings here in Memphis where innocent bystanders (sometimes children) are killed for no reason at all. It is sad that our society has come to this, and that someone, especially a parent, would shake a young child so violently that it kills the child.
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The whole point is that shaking a child and inflicting death is much easier to do than people realize. I've seen children being shaken in stores. It doesn't look or feel violent to the one doing the shaking. If you notice the POA link in my first post, people were advocating shaking instead of hitting or spanking. The comment was made, "I was shaken and turned out ok."

Henning said:
So sad, everybody looking for a reason or chance to inflict violence.:nonod:
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I agree with Henning. Violence is not a cure. It is a continuation of the tragedy.
 
airguy said:
It's not ignorance that's the problem - it's the willingness to hurt another person that is completely defenseless. There is no justification, period, end of discussion.
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So if you don't know your action may hurt/kill someone and your experience with that action did not have the same effect on anyone else you should be torn limb from limb?


Bottom line is education needs to be there so that parents and people acting as parents understand just how frail babies can be. I'm willing to bet that most hospitals do that education but not all and if the person taking care of the babies did not get that training it's a big gap in the system. Not sure how to solve that problem. And even if everyone knew, that does not solve the problem of people who cannot control their tempers or even worse who can and just don't care.
 
jtheune said:
So if you don't know your action may hurt/kill someone and your experience with that action did not have the same effect on anyone else you should be torn limb from limb?


Bottom line is education needs to be there so that parents and people acting as parents understand just how frail babies can be. I'm willing to bet that most hospitals do that education but not all and if the person taking care of the babies did not get that training it's a big gap in the system. Not sure how to solve that problem. And even if everyone knew, that does not solve the problem of people who cannot control their tempers or even worse who can and just don't care.
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I think 'Childrearing' as a mandatory freshman or sophomore class would be more effective at lessening teen pregnancy than teaching abstinence.
 
My sympathy and condolences to you and your family, AP.
 
Henning said:
I think 'Childrearing' as a mandatory freshman or sophomore class would be more effective at lessening teen pregnancy than teaching abstinence.
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:yes:
 
Bill Jennings said:
Yeah, I have a particularly blunt opinion on punishment for those who kill children. Death sentence, period.
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No. A more extracting sentence would be sending this person to general population of a maximun security prison.
 
Henning said:
I think 'Childrearing' as a mandatory freshman or sophomore class would be more effective at lessening teen pregnancy than teaching abstinence.
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Not a terrible idea.

From what I understand, it doesn't take much of a shake to cause harm.
Imagine some guy hasn't slept for the past 2 days, has work early in the morning, kid won't stop crying. He no doubt heard somewhere that shaking babies is bad but that's somewhere way way back in his head. He's dead tired, angry, his brain is far from it's peak efficiency... he's trying to hold the baby, rock it to sleep. In frustration he rocks a little harder... and harder... and then too hard.

This likely isn't an evil person. Any of us could come to this. I think when you demonize a person who makes this mistake you are also making yourself more ignorant to the fact that you are an imperfect human being totally capable of loosing your cool and doing harm. I seriously doubt very many people who shook a baby and caused it's death thought they were capable of this either.
 
airguy said:
My wife and I struggled to have a child - it took us years, several doctors, 4 rounds of in-vitro, a couple miscarriages, and just a hair over $100k to finally have a healthy happy 4-month-old little boy at home now.
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Wow. You make my daughter's struggles look like nothing. 2 implantations, no miscarriages. But we finally have two healthy 3 1/2 month old grandsons. They've been married for 11 years, so like yours, these are two terrifically wanted babies. Congratulations to you two.
 
FormerHangie said:
My older daughter was colicky for about four months when she was an infant. One of the only things that would stop her from crying was movement. We'd pick her up and start walking, first around the house, then outside if the weather cooperated, sometimes on a treadmill. After a while that wasn't enough, so we'd start walking up and down stairs, or rocking or bouncing while walking. My rule on that was to always sway or bounce with my entire body to make sure I wasn't moving her too violently.

For those of you who are ready to tear this guy apart, you have to remember that this most likely occurred out of frustration, not malice. This is a tough world we live in, life is precious to us but it's cheap as dirt to nature. People are physically able to reproduce long before they are mentally ready to become parents, and this was probably a case of too much too soon for this young man, who most likely lost his temper.
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Very sensible conclusion, thank you. As for the person who said he'd tear this guy apart, he might get his a$$ handed to him. People like this are desperate and mentally tapped out. Capable of doing great harm.
 
Bill Jennings said:
That poor child, and the poor momma. She just lost veryt hing in her world, I hope she finds some help.

I missed this while I was away from PoA. Peggy, I am so sorry for your loss.
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PPC1052 said:
I am very sorry for your loss. That is heartbreaking.
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sferguson524 said:
I just read your story AP, and my heart is broken. I have a 7 week old, and sometimes he cries a LOT. Inconsolable crying.. feed him, burp him, change his diaper, hold him, cuddle him.. sometimes nothing works... I cannot ever imagine doing anything to harm him. I have lost my patience exactly once, and i asked my wife to come finish changing him (he wouldn't hold still-ish), and walked away to get my composure back.
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Gerhardt said:
I didn't know that Aunt Peggy. I'm sorry.
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pilot_dude said:
My sympathy and condolences to you and your family, AP.
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Thanks to all of you for your kindness.
 
cowman said:
<snip>

Any of us could come to this.
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I whole-heartedly disagree.

Shaking babies is like pointing a loaded gun at someone you don't intend to shoot.

It is either gross ignorance or an anger management problem.
 
AP, I had no idea, and I have no words. I know it has been a few years but I can imagine it being like yesterday. I am so sorry. If I may ask, which of the parents was your child?
 
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