It had to be a Cirrus....

Skip Miller

Skip Miller

Final Approach
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Skip Miller
I was waiting to take off from Lancaster, PA this afternoon and I heard a disturbing conversation on the air. Yes, the pattern was busy (four or five up) including one plane with a hard to understand accent and a plane name that could have been an experimental. But the problem was a Cirrus with a very inexperienced pilot. He was trying to land and the tower was doing a fine job guiding a newby through a full pattern.

Was he a student on one of his solo x/cs? That is my assumption. He was so frightened that you could hear him hyperventilating over the radio. He held down the PTT button too long so you could hear him panting, close to a full blown panic attack. This definitely got Tower's attention.

Tower kept working with him, asking him to follow various planes he happened to spot. Twice he announced he was withdrawing and going home. Then spotted a plane and Tower asked him if he still wanted to land. Yes, OK follow him. Then the panic starts again and he again withdrew. After going through this drill twice he in fact withdrew.

He was obviously not prepared for an approach to land at a busy class D. I can't really blame his CFI without more information but boy this student (and I hope he was a student) was not ready.

No metal bent. Will this student make it? I dunno. I hope so. But KUDOs to the LNS tower for working so hard to get this kid on the ground.

Sorry to see anyone have such a bad experience while on their way to a Pilot Certificate, but this sounded very dangerous to me.

And yes, he was flying a Cirrus....

-Skip
 
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I remember a flight long ago, and far away, when I was the unprepared student flying into a busy Class D (for Duh!) airport on a busy Saturday.

Oh, and there was a great restaurant on the field. It was busy-busy.

There I was, with maybe 30 hours, flying solo into what felt like O'Hare. Except it was staffed by a guy who only THOUGHT he knew where everyone was. No radar.

Think: Chaos. People reporting their positions incorrectly, the tower controller unable to spot them. And there I was, a guy who had NEVER flown into a towered airport solo in my life.

Hyperventilating? Um, well, not quite. But close.

Then, after an eternity of confusion, I was finally on final approach...when the tower cleared another airplane to depart in front of me. In my mind's eye, all these years later, I know there was plenty of time. GOBS of time. An eternity, even.

I FREAKED OUT. There was an airplane on MY runway! I had trained in sleepy little East Troy, WI (57C). I had never shared the pattern with anyone, ever -- and now, there was someone on my runway!

I announced that I was "Going around..."

The controller FREAKED OUT. Not quite shouting, but obviously unhappy with my decision. It was going to be a beatch to get me back into the pattern, but he did, I did, I landed, and I enjoyed the best meal of my life, believing that I had survived a death defying experience.

And, in fact, I had.

Good times. Try to be patient with the young 'uns. We need them.
 
Not exactly sure what the fact that it was Cirrus had to do with it? Maybe it would have been much better if it had been a Cessna or Piper or anything non-Currus?
 
Jay Honeck said:
Good times. Try to be patient with the young 'uns. We need them.
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Been there too. Did my training at an uncontrolled airport on weekday mornings. Went out on a Saturday morning on one of my first solo flights, and when I returned, the pattern was full. Had never seen that many airplanes. My hand froze on the throttle and I couldn't release it to pick up the mic. Turned away from the airport and began calculating how much time I had before the fuel would run out and I would die. Eventually I was able to relax and get it landed. Never happened again, but that Saturday morning is burned into my memory forever.
 
geneseib said:
Been there too. Did my training at an uncontrolled airport on weekday mornings. Went out on a Saturday morning on one of my first solo flights, and when I returned, the pattern was full. Had never seen that many airplanes. My hand froze on the throttle and I couldn't release it to pick up the mic. Turned away from the airport and began calculating how much time I had before the fuel would run out and I would die. Eventually I was able to relax and get it landed. Never happened again, but that Saturday morning is burned into my memory forever.
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This is why, when people ask me which is better -- training at an uncontrolled airport, or training with a control tower -- I usually tell them a control tower is better preparation.

Not because towers actually do anything of value, most of the time, but because it gets you used to dealing with them from the get-go, and makes you comfortable in the semi-organized chaos that can swirl around a non-radar-controlled towered airport.

On the other hand, you save tons of money training at an uncontrolled airport, simply because you can back-taxi without delay, etc. So there's that.

On the OTHER other hand, I know guys who are simply petrified of flying into uncontrolled fields. They're so used to having a controller provide separation that they are intensely uncomfortable flying without them. (These are the guys who invariably say "flying into Oshkosh is insane".)

So pick your poison. It's all good. Bottom line -- be patient with newbies. They are few and far between, and we need them WAY more than they need us.
 
I'm pretty sure on my first solo flight to a non-controlled I sounded like a bafoon who had little idea what an airplane was, let alone an AIRPORT. I imagine it's the same for someone going from a sleepy uncontrolled to a busy delta.
 
denverpilot said:
No evidence this was a young'un but understand your story and sentiment. It's just as likely this was an old'un.
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Young or old - reminds me of this bit from Susan Oliver's book "Odyssey - A Daring Transatlantic Journey":
"I am pleased and honored when Max Conrad, the famous "Flying Grandfather," invites me to fly back to L.A. with him in his twin-engine Aztec, for I hope to pick up some over-ocean pointers from him. Yet he's an odd and gentle sort of man who seems to be very tentative in his flying style. He so much prefers to be alone that he does something I've never seen anyone do on a long flight; he flies us in between the airways, taking fixes off omni stations instead of flying to and from them.

"That way nobody ever knows where I am," he tells me shyly.

We get to LAX by one A.M. and he has me call approach control and the tower, explaining, "I don't feel very sure of myself talking with big airports."

Interesting for a man who's set records all over the world, though I can understand."
​
 
Skip Miller said:
I was waiting to take off from Lancaster, PA this afternoon and I heard a disturbing conversation on the air. Yes, the pattern was busy (four or five up) including one plane with a hard to understand accent and a plane name that could have been an experimental. But the problem was a Cirrus with a very inexperienced pilot. He was trying to land and the tower was doing a fine job guiding a newby through a full pattern.

Was he a student on one of his solo x/cs? That is my assumption. He was so frightened that you could hear him hyperventilating over the radio. He held down the PTT button too long so you could hear him panting, close to a full blown panic attack. This definitely got Tower's attention.

Tower kept working with him, asking him to follow various planes he happened to spot. Twice he announced he was withdrawing and going home. Then spotted a plane and Tower asked him if he still wanted to land. Yes, OK follow him. Then the panic starts again and he again withdrew. After going through this drill twice he in fact withdrew.

He was obviously not prepared for an approach to land at a busy class D. I can't really blame his CFI without more information but boy this student (and I hope he was a student) was not ready.

No metal bent. Will this student make it? I dunno. I hope so. But KUDOs to the LNS tower for working so hard to get this kid on the ground.

Sorry to see anyone have such a bad experience while on their way to a Pilot Certificate, but this sounded very dangerous to me.

And yes, he was flying a Cirrus....

-Skip
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Right around the 4 minute mark

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/klns/KLNS-Twr-Jun-15-2013-1730Z.mp3




 
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I can feel for this guy.

My first Solo to an alternate airport was LNS and I was was death gripping , white knuckling and sweating and a whole lot of cursing .

When I was on final for 26, the tower changed me to 31 because a Sportsstar was cleared on 31 and came in much faster. I got all flustered , confused , was not used to the amount of traffic in the pattern , not used to multiple runways in use like that , and not used to a last minute change like that when on final.

It was complete overload
 
My first solo into a towered airport was FTY, where I am based now. I was terrified, then as I was departing the pattern, it began to rain, HUGE raindrops I thought someone was shooting the plane!! :hairraise: Yet, I survived, so did the airplane. My son learned the start at FTY, he's been good with the radio and tower instructions since he had 10 hours, but he wasn't comfortable at an uncontrolled field.:dunno:
 
Agree that Cirrus-bashing has nothing to do with this. I skipped this step as I got my PPL at what is now a Class C airport (KPBI) so dealt with full ATC from the get-go. Did have my share of white-knuckle moments during training, however. And I was in a Cessna 150.

FWIW, FBO based out of Leesburg:
http://www.atlantic-airways.com/aircraftfleet.html
 
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I was one of those guys that trained at a sleepy Class D and thought 3 or 4 planes in an non-controlled field was a circus. My instructor picked up on that pretty quickly and made sure we went to a lot of those fields during the remaining part of my training. Now, 50 hours since I took my checkride, I still prefer controlled airspace, but am comfortable at the non-towered.

About a month ago, I went to a local fly-in at a non-towered field. As I approached, there were about 8 or 9 planes coming from all directions for the fly-in. I was pleasantly surprised how comfortable I was getting in there. It certainly helped that the other guys were very good about communicating and reporting. At one point, I was #5 to land. And in the end, it wasn't as bad as I remembered. I know for a fact that 20 hours ago, I would've never went in there that day.

I felt bad listening to that guy. You could hear the tension in his voice. I'm sure I've sounded like that from time to time. Hopefully, he'll work through it and be just fine.
 
EppyGA said:
Not exactly sure what the fact that it was Cirrus had to do with it? Maybe it would have been much better if it had been a Cessna or Piper or anything non-Currus?
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Agreed. What the heck Cirrus has to do with the meat of this story.
 
Well, I will admit you were right and my reference to Cirrus was a low blow. Cirri are fine aircraft when the pilot is proficient in one. There is a lot of Cirrus bashing over on the red board and I guess I fell into that mode.

It is, however, a lot of aircraft for a student pilot and in this case the pilot was a bit over his head. Nothing on the news so my assumption is that when the pilot departed KLNS and calmed down, he did fine.

It was, however, more than a little scary hearing the pilot trying to make sense of what he was seeing and hearing. I hope he gets with his instructor and returns to LNS to conquer his demon....

-Skip
 
Always helpful to add "student pilot" at the end of your initial radio call to give a controller a heads up to not do anything too surprising, like a last minute runway change or putting someone on the runway while you are on final.
 
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.....

Hooks memorial cleared my young student butt to land on 17R one beautiful day that was not busy (thank God) and I made a perfect landing.

Right up until the point where the controller said...."that's runway 35L you landed on sir!"
 
MachFly said:
The controller could have been a bit nicer to the guy. It's obvious he was lost, could have just given him progressive.
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He starts out gently enough, but this pilot reads back and/or gets every single instruction given wrong. sometimes more than once, and even more than twice.
Granted, getting upset won't help, but I can relate to the annoyed controller more than I can the dazed and confused pilot, who from the sound of it, has never spoken to a controller on the radio before, and probably shouldn't have tried to land there.
I've made my share of errors at towered airports, but never with such impressive consistency. :no:
 
rottydaddy said:
He starts out gently enough, but this pilot reads back and/or gets every single instruction given wrong. sometimes more than once, and even more than twice.
Granted, getting upset won't help, but I can relate to the annoyed controller more than I can the dazed and confused pilot, who from the sound of it, has never spoken to a controller on the radio before, and probably shouldn't have tried to land there.
I've made my share of errors at towered airports, but never with such impressive consistency. :no:
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The stuff the controller said in air was fine, I would have probably done the same. When he landed however, the controller should have just gave him progressive taxi and then gave him a phone number.
 
I am not sure any of us can even assume any of these pilots are even students. We all make mistakes and sometimes a single simple mistake can snowball in ways we cannot imagine. Start getting frustrated, and mistakes multiply. Add being in an unfamiliar area, a lot of traffic, and a busy control tower, and well we heard what happens.
 
txflyer said:
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone....
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Yes.
In order to learn how to handle getting overloaded, you have to get overloaded. You have to get saturated and survive to gain the confidence to go forward.
And we all had really bad days,

And ultimately, all planes eventually land. You have to get it down, no matter how stressed or freaked you are. Better there with someone helping and watching than leaving, getting lost, and making a smoking hole.
 
This student was not ready.
The CFI needs to looked at a wee bit....for it is HIS performance that is UNSAT.

47V did not get ONE SINGLE instruction correct, and then kept modifying the instruction for what he thought was needed.
 
txflyer said:
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.....

Hooks memorial cleared my young student butt to land on 17R one beautiful day that was not busy (thank God) and I made a perfect landing.

Right up until the point where the controller said...."that's runway 35L you landed on sir!"
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Wow. Haha. He didn't even notice the pond was at the wrong end of the runway, eh? ;) (I like Hooks. Too bad family moved back here from The Woodlands there, I liked flying to Hooks to visit. Neat little airport.)
 
I learned to fly at an uncontrolled airport where 2/3 of the airplanes were nordo.
Then I was flying out of 3CK getting my FAA PP. My CFI knew that I wasn't big on talking to the towers, so he figured he'll take me to DuPage to show me how it's done.
Don't want to sound chauvinistic, but the female woman in that tower must have been having a very bad day of the month. She was YELLING JUST LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME. Furthermore, after the initial contact, she just couldn't hear us. We heard her, but she just couldn't hear us (altitude wasn't the problem, tried both radios) - so she was just YELLING to us to NOT ENTER HER AIRSPACE UNTIL WE GET OUR (felt like she was skipping "effing") RADIO FIXED. Thankfully there were two more planes in the area who heard both us and her loud (her more so) and clear and relayed our messages. Three or four miles further she was hearing us ok again. Must have been a bad reception spot or something.
Any rate, that put me off of going to towered airports for another month or so. Finally made a flight into Aurora, where the tower was most friendly and co-operating :) Been doing alright ever since.
 
Beginning radio operators (controllers included) think radios cover everywhere and think yelling into mics makes the radio work better in marginal conditions. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Beginning radio operators (controllers included) think radios cover everywhere and think yelling into mics makes the radio work better in marginal conditions. ;)
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Which causes clipping and makes it worse. :(
 
Kudos to 47V for keeping a cool head when the controller was going off on him.
 
I trained at IPT, and LNS was a destination we went to for XCs. The good restaurant and pilot shop made it a fun destination. I did go there solo once at around 30 hours, but only after having been there a couple times on a busy Saturday with my instructor. It was no big deal.

If this person was a student, then I wonder why the instructor didn't know he wasn't ready. If he wasn't a student, I wonder why he got signed off.

Hopefully he went home, called his CFI, and say "I need some training."
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I trained at IPT, and LNS was a destination we went to for XCs. The good restaurant and pilot shop made it a fun destination. I did go there solo once at around 30 hours, but only after having been there a couple times on a busy Saturday with my instructor. It was no big deal.

If this person was a student, then I wonder why the instructor didn't know he wasn't ready. If he wasn't a student, I wonder why he got signed off.

Hopefully he went home, called his CFI, and say "I need some training."
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I'm sure it became obvious when he didn't land at the intended destination. It's both a FAR 61 and 141 requirement for student solo XC.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I'm sure it became obvious when he didn't land at the intended destination. It's both a FAR 61 and 141 requirement for student solo XC.
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You'd be surpriseduch denial some people have.
 
Videos like that are excruciatingly painful to watch. Why do I keep watching them?
 
I was right behind one Cirrus driver who the balls to taxi passed the run-up area up to the hold short line then swing around into the wind and sit there for 5 minutes getting his crap together for an IFR departure. :mad2:


Meanwhile looking essentially straight at them, I shut the engine down on the taxiway and waited. :mad:
 
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