Is Tony Stewart a murderer??

Is Tony responsible for this death?

  • Yes

    Votes: 29 16.6%

  • No

    Votes: 117 66.9%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 29 16.6%
  • Total voters
    175
Henning said:
Could he have been standing on the clutch for the caution?:dunno:
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Man someone already tried to tell you, these cars don't have clutches, or transmissions or flywheels for that matter. They are in gear or out of gear. Once out of gear they have to be stopped to be put back in gear. They are push started to get going. They used to have a clutch and in/out boxes many years ago, but now it's just a cable to pull them out of gear.
 
There will be no charges filed by the prosecutor - remember that inconvenient 'beyond a reasonable doubt' clause in the law.
There will be those who will forever loudly proclaim he did it deliberately thinking he was going to just make him jump back and spin dirt in his face.
There will be those foaming at the mouth and insisting that he is more pure and innocent than Caesar's wife, it was the bad lighting, the kid intended to bang on the side of the car as it went by, etc.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle in a mix of two men with hot tempers and big egos and a split second of bad decision making on both sides.
The real result - other than a young man dead - is that his career as a driver is finished. His sponsors will drop him like an oozing bag of offal. In two years he will be just another ex-car-owner ex-driver (if he is still even that) Five years from now he will barely be mentioned.
 
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Henning said:
Could he have been standing on the clutch for the caution?:dunno:
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They don't have conventional clutches, either, just a way of disengaging the final drive. Watching the video closely and listening to the engine noise, I don't think that engine noise came from Stewart's car. Most likely it came from a car closer to the person who was recording it.
 
Henning said:
Oh, and whoever said that once drivers make it to the big leagues they should stay out of the little leagues, I agree to a majority extent. Except for the real up and comers, then there is one advantage to competing against the pros; if you do well and 2nd against them, you will get more recognition than if you beat Billy Bob Jim John for the checkered. I think that for major lower class events having some big names in the fray is a good thing, but for your average Saturday night local races, they don't belong there.
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Short track racing, by and large, is not doing all that well. Having Tony Stewart show up for the weekly show has to be a big boost in ticket sales, so I think it's good for the sport, especially since he doesn't keep going back to the same racetrack every week.
 
Henning said:
Oh, and whoever said that once drivers make it to the big leagues they should stay out of the little leagues, I agree to a majority extent. Except for the real up and comers, then there is one advantage to competing against the pros; if you do well and 2nd against them, you will get more recognition than if you beat Billy Bob Jim John for the checkered. I think that for major lower class events having some big names in the fray is a good thing, but for your average Saturday night local races, they don't belong there.
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From a less than stellar source, there may have been a real or perceived rivalry going on here between the little guy and the big guy ...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/tony-stewart-kevin-ward-jr-rivals-article-1.1898917
Charlie Dorn, 21, said Stewart and Ward had butted heads in previous races...

“Tony Stewart and Kevin have raced against each other and they’ve always had a thing for each other,” said Dorn. “Kevin always beats him and Tony has crashed into him a few times and I think every time they race, Kevin saw it as an extra challenge.”
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Zeldman said:
It will be the tracks insurance company that will foot the biggest part of the bill.
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Nope. First, it's doubtful the track has any coverage against participants of the race hitting each other. Second, it's doubtful they have any liability either. No matter how you slice it, the driver stood on the racing surface inappropriately during the race. Whether Tony intentionally or negligently struck him or not, it appears wholly between the two drivers.

It's usually the sanctioning body that covers liability though it's doubtful that they'll pay out anything here nor do they have very high limits on their policy. Every person who enters on the track (driver, crew, whatever) signs a liability waiver to boot. Hell, I used to have to sign one as a NASCAR official just to walk on the track to the pit between races.
 
FormerHangie said:
They don't have conventional clutches, either, just a way of disengaging the final drive. Watching the video closely and listening to the engine noise, I don't think that engine noise came from Stewart's car. Most likely it came from a car closer to the person who was recording it.
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This was my take as well, but I admit it's hard to judge.
 
flyingron said:
Nope. First, it's doubtful the track has any coverage against participants of the race hitting each other. Second, it's doubtful they have any liability either. No matter how you slice it, the driver stood on the racing surface inappropriately during the race. Whether Tony intentionally or negligently struck him or not, it appears wholly between the two drivers.

It's usually the sanctioning body that covers liability though it's doubtful that they'll pay out anything here nor do they have very high limits on their policy. Every person who enters on the track (driver, crew, whatever) signs a liability waiver too boot. Hell, I used to have to sign one as a NASCAR official just to walk on the track to the pit between races.
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In my 18 years of racing for a living, from Friday night bullish 1/4 mile dirt tracks to Sunday afternoon 2 mile paved ovals, everytime a driver, pit crew member, official or spectator was injured or killed, the track insurance payed out through the nose. If another sanctioning body leased the track for one race, that sanctioning body paid out as well. Yes, I am sure there are limits as to how much they will pay out. Then there were the lawsuits.

We all signed the waiver, every track I have been to had some sort of waiver. Track owners prepare for every possibility, if it is a TV race, even coverage for a blimp falling onto the spectators.

I guess there can still be a few outlaw tracks that don't carry liability, or any insurance for that matter. I haven't been to one since the late 70s, but in todays lawsuit happy environment a serious injury or death would quickly put that track out of business. And I am certain that Tony Stewarts (or any other big name in racing) racing manager would not let him race at an outlaw track like that.

And I agree with you, he should not have been standing on the track surface. And I will admit as a driver I once got out and threw my helmet at a car I thought had intentionally taken me out. I was wrong for getting out and wrong on my accusation. At least I waited until the caution flag had the cars slowed down. And I was removed from the property for the rest of the race and suspended from the next race.
 
mikea said:
This. He burped the throttle to spray the guy and ended up killing him.

Course, NASCAR will fix it by making new rules that drivers must not exit the car unless it's on fire.
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:yeahthat:
 
Zeldman said:
In my 18 years of racing for a living, from Friday night bullish 1/4 mile dirt tracks to Sunday afternoon 2 mile paved ovals, everytime a driver, pit crew member, official or spectator was injured or killed, the track insurance payed out through the nose. If another sanctioning body leased the track for one race, that sanctioning body paid out as well. Yes, I am sure there are limits as to how much they will pay out. Then there were the lawsuits.

We all signed the waiver, every track I have been to had some sort of waiver. Track owners prepare for every possibility, if it is a TV race, even coverage for a blimp falling onto the spectators.

I guess there can still be a few outlaw tracks that don't carry liability, or any insurance for that matter. I haven't been to one since the late 70s, but in todays lawsuit happy environment a serious injury or death would quickly put that track out of business. And I am certain that Tony Stewarts (or any other big name in racing) racing manager would not let him race at an outlaw track like that.

And I agree with you, he should not have been standing on the track surface. And I will admit as a driver I once got out and threw my helmet at a car I thought had intentionally taken me out. I was wrong for getting out and wrong on my accusation. At least I waited until the caution flag had the cars slowed down. And I was removed from the property for the rest of the race and suspended from the next race.
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I mirror your thoughts and past.......

Ps I LOVED running Daytona, Talladega and Atlanta back in the mid 80's..
Before the restrictor plates...:mad2::mad2:..

Ben Haas...
 
No possible way I can answer this poll question so I answered, "not sure."

I will say this, reading some responses from guys who have raced cars before, and seeing these clips of drivers throwing helmates and cursing out other drivers in post race press conferences just proves further that the racing culture is terrible. I mean some of this behavior is similiar to the WWF( now WWE) wrestling events I watched as a kid where the wrestlers would call each other out in fake interviews. That was staged drama scripted to be made real. These drivers are real people acting the way scripted characters act. The very fact that Ward, a 20 year old impressionable kid, got out of the car to confront a driver who crashed into him, somehow not thinking of the very real risk that took his life, is evidence that car racing culture breads confrontation. That's really not a good thing when these are in fact cars driving around going really fast with a potential outcome of death if hit by one.

I think it's time for these guys to just shut up and drive their cars, turn left till done and go home...but that's clearly not exciting enough I guess....
 
jspilot said:
No possible way I can answer this poll question so I answered, "not sure."

I will say this, reading some responses from guys who have raced cars before, and seeing these clips of drivers throwing helmates and cursing out other drivers in post race press conferences just proves further that the racing culture is terrible. I mean some of this behavior is similiar to the WWF( now WWE) wrestling events I watched as a kid where the wrestlers would call each other out in fake interviews. That was staged drama scripted to be made real. These drivers are real people acting the way scripted characters act. The very fact that Ward, a 20 year old impressionable kid, got out of the car to confront a driver who crashed into him, somehow not thinking of the very real risk that took his life, is evidence that car racing culture breads confrontation. That's really not a good thing when these are in fact cars driving around going really fast with a potential outcome of death if hit by one.

I think it's time for these guys to just shut up and drive their cars, turn left till done and go home...but that's clearly not exciting enough I guess....
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Not 'Racing Culture'; Stock car culture, and not all of it either. There's a hell of a lot more to 'Racing Culture' than rednecks going roundy round.
 
Henning said:
Not 'Racing Culture'; Stock car culture, and not all of it either. There's a hell of a lot more to 'Racing Culture' than rednecks going roundy round.
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Fair enough, I was thinking NASCAR honestly when writing my post. I'm about as far away from the culture as one could be having never watched or driven a race car myself. As an outsider to the culture, it just stuck me as weird, and very,very childish.
 
jspilot said:
Fair enough, I was thinking NASCAR honestly when writing my post. I'm about as far away from the culture as one could be having never watched or driven a race car myself. As an outsider to the culture, it just stuck me as weird, and very,very childish.
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Yes, NASCAR is the WWE of the racing world, and like WWE makes ****tons of money.
 
If people didn't get killed racing, pro racing wouldn't exist, it wouldn't carry the ratings. Death fascinates us and we want to see it happen in a spectacular form. NASCAR is the modern Circus Maximus. We want to see people compete to the death. We don't like to admit it, but it's the truth.
 
Vinny said:
I have known folks who believe NASCAR races are fixed just like pro wrestling matches.
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I have never checked book on NASCAR or even remember seeing a line on a race.:dunno: If major gambling is not involved, then anything is possible.
 
Henning said:
If people didn't get killed racing, pro racing wouldn't exist, it wouldn't carry the ratings. Death fascinates us and we want to see it happen in a spectacular form. NASCAR is the modern Circus Maximus. We want to see people compete to the death. We don't like to admit it, but it's the truth.
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I do not agree with this. I am sure we have some twisted folks who want to see others get killed. But from a racers point of view. I like to see clean racing.
Why I do not like dirt track. No lines are ran, the cars are all over the place. Just not my style of racing. I like clean lines and running a groove. Anyone can bump and grind, but run a race and never touch another car takes talent.
I guess you could say we go to the airport to watch airplanes crash.

Tony
 
I have a grand total of 1 dirt race under my belt, so I am no expert. That said, we are told repeatedly "do not leave your car unless you are on fire," in the track rules and the driver's meeting, and we have stiff suspensions, fines, and dqs for doing so.

My opinion is that once the idiot left his car, they should have thrown the red. This isn't Bristol or Bowman Grey, there's no need to allow this garbage.

The man essentially killed himself. The track didn't do the right thing. Tony was just the celebrity that happened to be there when the guy tried to get his moment of fame for standing up to him.
 
Henning said:
I have never checked book on NASCAR or even remember seeing a line on a race.:dunno: If major gambling is not involved, then anything is possible.
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You can bet on NASCAR at Sports Books..
 
Henning said:
If people didn't get killed racing, pro racing wouldn't exist, it wouldn't carry the ratings. Death fascinates us and we want to see it happen in a spectacular form. NASCAR is the modern Circus Maximus. We want to see people compete to the death. We don't like to admit it, but it's the truth.
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I don't fully agree with this. I think there certainly is a fascination with watching an event where there is an element of danger for the participants, if nothing else than to wonder how far we would push our own risk tolerance limits like the drivers do.

Some forms of racing do have a high chance of a sudden and brutal outcome - anyone who's seen a top fuel dragster or funny car slam into a berm or other structure and disintegrate knows that. Other forms are more subtle - NASCAR features a lot of accidents, but rarely driver fatalities. Maybe Earnhardt was the last driver fatality, 2001, in the top series?

I used to follow F1, and sometimes still do, it has a very deep safety culture, now, but it came at heavy cost. Like other forms of racing the cars, teams, and drivers are pushed to the limits of control and sometimes do exceed them. But no one dies (I think a course marshal or spectator has been killed recently, but no driver fatality since 1994).

NASCAR is different, though. Bumping, rubbing, spinning someone, and other full-contact racing is a part of it and that's something I don't see anywhere else.

F1 was having so many driver fatalities it was actually in a state where the whole thing might fold, so they went all in on safety (as much as you can do, and still race). If NASCAR were to lose a driver every month or two (like F1 did for a while), I think their ratings would drop. People want to see the risk and danger, but I think the fight-so-the-death aspect is a little over the top for most spectators.

--

I don't think people go to hockey games to watch the fights, either.
 
Henning said:
Not 'Racing Culture'; Stock car culture, and not all of it either. There's a hell of a lot more to 'Racing Culture' than rednecks going roundy round.
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OK, first off, this was a sprint car race, not a stock car race. NASCAR doesn't sanction sprint car races, and Canandaigua Motorsports Park is not NASCAR affiliated. The sort of thing like what Ward did seems to be tolerated at short tracks, and almost encouraged at some. (See Bowman Gray Speedway). In other sorts of racing, it is not. I've been following Indycar for 25 years, and the only time I've seen one driver confront another was when both were stopped because of the crash, and off of the racing line while on a road course. The safety crew immediately grabbed the confronting driver and pulled him away. I've been following sports car racing longer than that and I've never seen it at all there, nor have I seen it in Formula 1.

It's hardly specific to auto racing. Baseball pitchers do throw brushback pitches, batters do charge pitchers mounds, and bench clearing brawls do occur. Football players do target each other and get in fights as well. How about ice hockey? Here's a sport that gave us the "enforcer" and fights are tolerated.

I don't even know what to say about MMA.
 
FormerHangie said:
OK, first off, this was a sprint car race, not a stock car race. NASCAR doesn't sanction sprint car races, and Canandaigua Motorsports Park is not NASCAR affiliated. The sort of thing like what Ward did seems to be tolerated at short tracks, and almost encouraged at some. (See Bowman Gray Speedway). In other sorts of racing, it is not. I've been following Indycar for 25 years, and the only time I've seen one driver confront another was when both were stopped because of the crash, and off of the racing line while on a road course. The safety crew immediately grabbed the confronting driver and pulled him away. I've been following sports car racing longer than that and I've never seen it at all there, nor have I seen it in Formula 1.

It's hardly specific to auto racing. Baseball pitchers do throw brushback pitches, batters do charge pitchers mounds, and bench clearing brawls do occur. Football players do target each other and get in fights as well. How about ice hockey? Here's a sport that gave us the "enforcer" and fights are tolerated.

I don't even know what to say about MMA.
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There's a difference between short tracks (paved) and short tracks (dirt). Bowman Gray is paved, and they have idiots like this every week - its part of the attraction. You very rarely see this type of stuff on dirt, primarily because of the lack of visibility and control.

Its just stupid to run on a live race track. Even in NASCAR, you notice when they throw a helmet, they're usually doing it from a couple dozen feet away. To get right up on him like that?

Just dumb.

Also - another thing to note...again, I only have one race under my belt so far (Race #2 is on Saturday), but we don't have mirrors so anything beyond about halfway back to the left or ride side of the car is unseen (there'a also not usually spotters for Sprint Cars). Its quite possible that Tony Stewart didn't even know the guy was mad until he came back around. With the lack of visibility, he may not have even seen that the guy was on the track until the very last second. Imagine being in that situation, turning a corner, and BAM - some dude is reaching for you and trying to grab you. He probably had no chance to even think about how to safely disengage.
 
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I would hazard a guess that Stewart has a spotter even in a sprint car. I could be wrong, after all - he says it's a hobby. I think I saw some ear buds in one pic?
 
docmirror said:
I would hazard a guess that Stewart has a spotter even in a sprint car. I could be wrong, after all - he says it's a hobby. I think I saw some ear buds in one pic?
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The ear buds you saw are ear plugs for noise.

At short tracks the action happens too fast for a spotter to be of any use, that is the lap is over before you can say someone is coming up on your right rear.
 
docmirror said:
I would hazard a guess that Stewart has a spotter even in a sprint car. I could be wrong, after all - he says it's a hobby. I think I saw some ear buds in one pic?
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Raceceiver. No spotter. Its usually outlawed for these classes of cars.

Raceceiver is mandatory...
 
SkyHog said:
Raceceiver. No spotter. Its usually outlawed for these classes of cars.

Raceceiver is mandatory...
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Wasn't when I drove, but that was quite a while back. Makes sense though. We had a guy xmitting on an AM band way back then, and the driver had a radio with a pair of buds in his car. One way of course. No raceceivers back then either.
 
SkyHog said:
Raceceiver. No spotter. Its usually outlawed for these classes of cars.

Raceceiver is mandatory...
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Agreed....

In all my sprint car races back in the late 80's....Radios / spotters were illegal...:nono:
 
Explanation of Raceiver...it's a one way radio the track officials use to line up the field under cautions. There's always confusion what order the cars should be in. The sanctioning body, Empire Sprint Series, does not allow two way radio communication with drivers.
 
As a matter of fact, here's some pretty useful rules from the Canandaigua Motorsport Park rulebook:
http://canandaiguamotorsportspark.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/generalrules.pdf

Page 3 said:
Only safety crews and wrecker crews will be allowed on the track in the event of any
accident. At no time will any of the driver's crew be allowed on the track.
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Page 5 said:
36. For the 2014 Season, One way Radios will be mandatory in all divisions. The
Frequency used will be 454.0000. [Nick's note: this is a raceceiver frequency]
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Also, the 305 Sprints appear to use the RaceSaver Spring Series Rulebook:
http://www.racesaver.com/rules.cfm?rk=8

RaceSaver Rulebook said:
Any member of a team who goes to another competitor’s pit or car, or race directors, or track officials; and engages in any verbal or physical confrontation on ,or off, the track; may subject that team to immediate suspension.
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I am actually quite surprised and disappointed to see that there is no specific rule with penalty for exiting the race car on the track. That needs to be fixed. From my local track's rulebook:

http://elpasocountyspeedway.com/general_track_rules.htm
El Paso County Speedway Rulebook said:
3. Unless specifically asked by a track official (or if there's an emergency situation such as a fire), NO driver may get out of their car or stop on the racing surface to argue or discuss a race situation with the flagman or officials. 1st violation of this rule will result in $100 fine. 2nd violation will result in disqualification from that race. 3rd violation will result in a one (1) race suspension. Any subsequent violation will result in suspension for the remainder of the season.
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Like what was said above, at short dirt tracks drivers get out and vent frustration. I can remember one track that in the drivers meeting we were told "No drivers are to get out of their cars, if you do and fell the need to fight bring it to the start/finish line for the fans to see."
 
interesting...

I'm taking bets on the over/under on when he comes out of retirement.
 
He is not retiring. Did anyone read the part were Tony can't even drive his Taurus to the store? Tony wouldn't be caught dead in one of those, he left a team to get out of driving a Toyota to get back to a Chevy.
 
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