Is This Mom a Jerk?

jason said:
I'm curious, Nick. Do you buckle Tyler into a carseat?
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I do. He's 1 year old though, and seatbelts are a bit different since you're talking about driving in a car that is often going 50+ MPH.

On a bicycle, if you get above 10MPH you're flying downhill most likely. You're also probably at a point where your skull has finished fusing and you have enough coordination to avoid hitting stuff. The bigger concern is stuff hitting you...which happens. I have had some very painful experiences on a bicycle as a kid, including hitting a car while going VERY fast, who happened to pull out of a side road without any warning.

I flipped onto the hood. I almost broke my arm. It hurt. I'm alive, and I have a good story to tell someone for why they shouldn't ride that closely to side roads.
 
SkyHog said:
I do. He's 1 year old though, and seatbelts are a bit different since you're talking about driving in a car that is often going 50+ MPH.

On a bicycle, if you get above 10MPH you're flying downhill most likely. You're also probably at a point where your skull has finished fusing and you have enough coordination to avoid hitting stuff. The bigger concern is stuff hitting you...which happens. I have had some very painful experiences on a bicycle as a kid, including hitting a car while going VERY fast, who happened to pull out of a side road without any warning.

I flipped onto the hood. I almost broke my arm. It hurt. I'm alive, and I have a good story to tell someone for why they shouldn't ride that closely to side roads.
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Uh...no. On the flats I am 20ish. Going uphill, I'm in the 10 range. Going downhill, 35-40.
 
This woman's choices aside, why is riding against traffic so bad? Just a rule thing or is there some real technical reason? I figure sometimes it is better to see it coming at least you have the option of crashing into whatever is on the side of the road instead of getting run over. Same direction riding is 100% trusting the drivers passing you.
 
ClimbnSink said:
This woman's choices aside, why is riding against traffic so bad? Just a rule thing or is there some real technical reason? I figure sometimes it is better to see it coming at least you have the option of crashing into whatever is on the side of the road instead of getting run over. Same direction riding is 100% trusting the drivers passing you.
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Might as well ride my motorcyle the wrong way. Or drive the wrong way on the interstate...
 
ClimbnSink said:
This woman's choices aside, why is riding against traffic so bad? Just a rule thing or is there some real technical reason? I figure sometimes it is better to see it coming at least you have the option of crashing into whatever is on the side of the road instead of getting run over. Same direction riding is 100% trusting the drivers passing you.
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Consider that typically, lanes are narrow enough so that cars have to move over to pass bicyclists, sometimes in to the other lane. If the bicycle is moving with traffic, cars can fall in behind if necessary. If the bicycle is moving against traffic, it forces someone to do something very unhappy. Plus closing speeds are a lot faster.

In the bike trails in my area, they have these postings that say "foot traffic use the left shoulder." Horrible thing to do. Because they don't use the shoulder. They use the side of the trail. Creates some pretty horrific bike-pedestrian accidents because it's harder to judge closing speeds and forces bikers to either stop completely or force someone to the side of the trail or off the trail on the other side.
 
Captain said:
They do that? Why? Can afford to ski but not pay for a sitter? I'm an expert skier and I'd never think to do that to my kid.

Unless the parents did pay for a sitter and it's the sitter wearing the baby!
:D
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Yep, all the time. I've seen them shredding some gnar with 1 year olds strapped on.
 
Palmpilot said:
My recollection is that when I grew up, not even motocyclists were required to wear helmets. I remember hearing objections to the requirement. Same for seat belts in cars.
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I remember the same debate in Washington state when helmets were madated for motorcyclists in the late 1960s. A classmate in driver ed had a run-in with either the town cops or the state patrol (I don't remember which - too many years ago) when in protest she wore the helmet strapped over her knee. The law didn't say where to wear it, just that you had to wear it. That would have been in the spring of 1968. I'd have to look at the RCW to see if they ever updated that. :D

Skylane81E said:
I'm alive because of helmets. Took a header into a tree trunk as a kid and shattered my helmet. Glad it wasn't my skull
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A similar experience, but while riding a motorcycle. A guy ran a stop sign and hit the motorcycle my wife and I were riding broadside. I had a line of curb paint 6 inches long on my helmet. I know it saved me. Through high school and college I knew 4 motorcycle riders who needed helmets (including my wife and me). 3 had helmets are are alive today. 1 did not and he died at the scene. Small sample, 100% correlation.
 
Ghery said:
I remember the same debate in Washington state when helmets were madated for motorcyclists in the late 1960s.
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That's where I lived in the 1960s.

I also remember people saying, about the seatbelt law when it went into effect, "I'd rather be thrown clear"! :yikes:

And I'm pretty sure the people saying that weren't all driving convertibles!
 
I wouldn't drive anywhere without a seat belt and I wear helmets on a bicycle and my snowmobile and if I rode a motorcycle I'd wear one on that too.

All that said, I've always been and still am completely opposed to laws requiring this stuff. Present me with the studies and the evidence, mandate that my car has the equipment available for me to use, verify the helmet is up to snuff, etc. That's fine, but in the end I want to live in a free country. Part of freedom is the ability to choose things that aren't necessarily the safest smartest options. There can be a personal cost, there will be a societal cost. But if we want to keep being a free country, I think that cost is well worth it.
 
SkyHog said:
I'm alive and so is everyone from my generation and before where helmets weren't used. We've all had nasty spills.
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Bet if you pull up statistics on fatal bike accidents with head trauma back when we were kids and compared them to the fatal rate the past 5 or 10 years, you'd see that many of our generation who had nasty spills is NOT alive.
 
Reflections...

Watched my brother's leg take a compound break as a bike with coaster brakes ran over it. Funny how your brain can blank something out even though I can remember being 3 feet away and 'seeing it'.

My Dad, brother and I had the classic Corvair accident driving down a straight wet hill one day. It was a convertible and we flipped upside down. It was equipped with lap belts that we didn't use. My dad held onto the wheel and wore a hole thru the roof where his head skidded down the road. My brother and I tumbled around the cockpit but were unharmed except for shock. My clearest memory was watching the soft shell crayfish and hellgrammites (fish bait) crawling around us as we lay stunned on the roof. Corvairs suck but we bought two more after that.

We took up mountain biking some years ago. The helmets have a warranty that will replace any helmet damaged in a crash. My wife did an endo (?) and split hers in half on her first trail ride. She got a new helmet but was otherwise fine. Cool.

The dumb stuff we used to do on our bikes doesn't compare to the stuff done today. When did biking become an extreme sport?

Our personal experience has little to do with statistical analysis of accidents and morbidity. As we increasingly have access to the data, why do so many increasingly decide to ignore it? Why have dual ignition if one has never had an ignition failure?

The freedom to be stupid is one I want to protect, especially when I'm also expected to share the cost. Yep.
 
N801BH said:
Oh come on man.............

If everyone wore helmets ,where would all the organ donors come from.:dunno::dunno::rolleyes:
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I remember hearing opposition to mandatory motorcycle helmet laws from doctors who felt it would reduce the number of available organs for sick people. Not sure if it ended up that way, but if i ever need a kidney or something, I'll be happy to take one from some guy who was riding around without a helmet. I'll probably feel better about it if he was doing wheelies without a helmet or something equally reckless.
 
EdFred said:
Uh...no. On the flats I am 20ish. Going uphill, I'm in the 10 range. Going downhill, 35-40.
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Someone I know got lectured for exceeding the posted speed limit once. It was 30 and he was passing the cars. :rofl:
 
I used to commute by bike and frequently encountered people riding the wrong way (against traffic) in the dedicated bike lanes. When approaching one of those idiots, i moved towards the curb enough to force them veer into oncoming traffic to continue. Might sound like a dick move, but the alternative is putting myself closer to traffic and at higher risk because of their stupidity. I'm not going to do that. I don't like having my life endangered due to other people's refusal to obey common sense (and the law, too). A very, very tiny part of me would have felt satisfied if they got hit. Fortunately that never happened.

I consider every one of them a jerk. Helmet and child carrying status was irrelevant, riding against traffic was enough to endanger both of us.

I think riding with a child in one hand would negatively impact the safety of the ride. Enough to cross over to jerkland? I don't know. probably.
 
DeeG said:
Someone I know got lectured for exceeding the posted speed limit once. It was 30 and he was passing the cars. :rofl:
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Back when I was at Colorado State in the early 90s, a friend was riding his race bike across campus at night and was pulled over by a police cruiser and cited for both speeding and running a stop sign. Apparently it was a slow night for the campus PD.
 
SkyHog said:
I do. He's 1 year old though, and seatbelts are a bit different since you're talking about driving in a car that is often going 50+ MPH.

On a bicycle, if you get above 10MPH you're flying downhill most likely. You're also probably at a point where your skull has finished fusing and you have enough coordination to avoid hitting stuff. The bigger concern is stuff hitting you...which happens. I have had some very painful experiences on a bicycle as a kid, including hitting a car while going VERY fast, who happened to pull out of a side road without any warning.

I flipped onto the hood. I almost broke my arm. It hurt. I'm alive, and I have a good story to tell someone for why they shouldn't ride that closely to side roads.
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My point was simply that "I did it" isn't a great reason. I remember traveling down the interstate laying in the back window of our family truckster. I'm alive, yet I can't imagine not buckling my kids into their carseat. I'm fine with people killing themselves, but I'm not necessarily fine with them killing innocent kids that don't know any better.

I don't necessarily want to see it legislated, but it's a bit of a stretch to say that bicycle helmets are worthless.

Children are at particularly high risk for bicycle-related injuries, with those under 14 years of age accounting for 13% of the fatalities, making this one of the most frequent causes of injury related death for young children.

Deaths among bicyclists younger than 16 have gone down by 84% since 1975, while deaths among bicyclists 16 and older have more than doubled.

Source: http://trafficsafety.org/safety/sharing/bike/bike-facts/bike-injuries-fatalities
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If I had to take a guess, I'd bet that the second stat in that quote is because parents started putting helmets on their kids yet didn't bother to wear one themselves because they "never did" when they were younger and they're "still alive".
 
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Fearless Tower said:
Back when I was at Colorado State in the early 90s, a friend was riding his race bike across campus at night and was pulled over by a police cruiser and cited for both speeding and running a stop sign. Apparently it was a slow night for the campus PD.
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I got cited for "improper lane usage" on a bicycle once. I was riding with my (then future) wife on a fairly narrow two lane road in a rural area with a rough gravel shoulders. We were riding in the correct direction (with the traffic). We were riding two abreast specifically to avoid being passed by the occasional car when oncoming traffic prevented them from leaving a safe distance from car to bike as I had already been run off the road riding single file under similar circumstances. A "county mounty" behind us blasted his horn. When we didn't yield he turned on siren and lights and "pulled us over" to write me a ticket. I took that one to court and won by default (he didnt' show) although I know I hadn't violated any laws (unless there's a law against being stubborn).
 
No, but Captain has reached "jerk" status here.

In my state the bicyclist is to ride against traffic and there is no helmet law nor seat occupancy law. She is a young mother who is taking care of her child and probably doesn't have the knowledge or resources to do better.

"Captain" has risen to the level of a "jerk".
 
bbchien said:
She is a young mother who is taking care of her child and probably doesn't have the knowledge or resources to do better
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It always amazes me how many people fail to grasp that some do not have the resources they have nor do they have any immediate way to correct that given their circumstances.
 
I can think of much worse examples of bad judgment by someone who should know better.

Like the Angel Flight pilot who killed a two-year old child by crashing a mile from my home. The child, who was also the patient, was not belted. The pilot took off downwind, on the shortest runway, just after a thunderstorm passed.

When pilots kill children with this kind of stupidity, it seems a little odd to see a pilot criticizing not one of his own kind, but a poor mother on a bicycle.
 
bbchien said:
No, but Captain has reached "jerk" status here.

In my state the bicyclist is to ride against traffic and there is no helmet law nor seat occupancy law. She is a young mother who is taking care of her child and probably doesn't have the knowledge or resources to do better.

"Captain" has risen to the level of a "jerk".
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What the hell did I do to deserve the same quote twice? Never mind, I don't care. And I had you pegged as one of the level headed ones around here...oh well.
 
jesse said:
It always amazes me how many people fail to grasp that some do not have the resources they have nor do they have any immediate way to correct that given their circumstances.
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Perhaps Captain lacks the resources/knowledge to correct his ways. Does that cancel his jerkiness? :D
 
While I don't condone what she did, I don't think it rises to the level of a jerk. Maybe foolish, clueless or insensitive.
I'm sure we all do things others see as weird, different or jerksh.
Maybe it's her oh mode of transportation and she is doing the best she can.

Go there again, and ask her if she could use one of those little bicycle trailers to carry her daughter. I think she would let you know then if she is a jerk.

Just my $.02
 
How's this get turned around on me? I simply saw a thing and reported it here. I didn't speak to her or even really offer an opinion here other than to say I couldn't believe she was riding a bike whilst holding a toddler.

You people jumping on me have other issues. Maybe I ticked you off on another thread? Fine, respond there. If you're unable to contain yourselves then maybe you shouldn't be reading threads I start.
 
I'm of the camp that carrying a carrying a toddler without a helmet on a bike, and not secured properly, is bad judgement but shouldn't be illegal. As Dr. Bruce and Jesse pointed out maybe she had no other means. I can buy that.

Riding against traffic is a special peeve of mine though, as I've seen some gnarly accidents including vehicle head-ons as a result. Nothing wrong with going the wrong way on a wide shoulder completely out of traffic for a short distance, but in traffic, not cool.
 
Captain said:
How's this get turned around on me? I simply saw a thing and reported it here. I didn't speak to her or even really offer an opinion here other than to say I couldn't believe she was riding a bike whilst holding a toddler.

You people jumping on me have other issues. Maybe I ticked you off on another thread? Fine, respond there. If you're unable to contain yourselves then maybe you shouldn't be reading threads I start.
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It is a bit odd, considering your original post just laid out the circumstances and asked a question...dunno how that made you a jerk and caused some posters to pelt you with rocks.

:dunno:
 
jesse said:
It always amazes me how many people fail to grasp that some do not have the resources they have nor do they have any immediate way to correct that given their circumstances.
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True. I recently bought my kid a helmet and it was $60, which is not cheap.
 
3393RP said:
It is a bit odd, considering your original post just laid out the circumstances and asked a question...dunno how that made you a jerk and caused some posters to pelt you with rocks.

:dunno:
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Starting so many threads whose purpose is to determine if other people are jerks is kind of jerky. ;)
 
Palmpilot said:
Starting so many threads whose purpose is to determine if other people are jerks is kind of jerky. ;)
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IT'S A BIT!!!

What's this? Number 8 or 9? If you have read enough of these 'jerk threads' to notice I start a lot of them then perhaps you've also noticed another trend...they all invoke discussion. News flash, this is a discussion board!

Posting interesting topics promotes discussion and discussion is good. It's the content that makes this forum compelling and that results in all of us pointing our browsers here. No posts equals no reason to come here.

So all you haters out there put those rigs in reverse and back on down. My posts are ultimately good for the forum. Your posts casting contempt my way and discouraging me from posting...not so much. Like my opinions or not I have NEVER said anything to anyone on this forum trying to discourage posting.
 
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Captain said:
How's this get turned around on me? I simply saw a thing and reported it here. I didn't speak to her or even really offer an opinion here other than to say I couldn't believe she was riding a bike whilst holding a toddler.
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I can't speak for the others but my retort was in jest (and to some extent defended you).

You people jumping on me have other issues. Maybe I ticked you off on another thread? Fine, respond there. If you're unable to contain yourselves then maybe you shouldn't be reading threads I start.
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Hey, this is the internet. Thick skins are very beneficial here.
 
SkyHog said:
I'm alive and so is everyone from my generation and before where helmets weren't used. We've all had nasty spills.

Its nanny-nation BS to think that suddenly heads have gotten softer, or asphalt has gotten harder.
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Not everyone from your generation that had a nasty spill survived those spills.

My intelligence of my decision to use PPE was affirmed last Sunday.
 
How do you feel about helmets for skiing? I never wore a helmet, and I started skiing at 5 years old. Now I see kids especially wearing helmets. I don't think I would wear one, but I would probably put one on my kid when she learns how to ski.
 
My bicycle helmet justified its existence last night when I fell off my bike. The helmet got a crack in its surface where it hit the edge of the sidewalk. If it hadn't been for the helmet, I figure that crack would have been in my skull.
 
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