Is there an instructor onboard

Tantalum

Tantalum

Final Approach
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San_Diego_Pilot
This was a pretty educational video for me. Kudos to the poster for uploading it, I'm always pretty embarrassed if my radio handling isn't textbook, so I don't think I would have uploaded this

I was confused when the controller said "don't go any further right" and thought the "I've got jets to land behind you sir" was a tad aggressive but overall kudos to ATC for talking this guy down and the pilot for not getting too frazzled...

 
Sounds like they have specific VFR procedures at the TRACON and had some issues communicating that.
Especially if a controller is talking to a non-native speaker, they should be patient and expect a correction here and there, IMO.

Frankly, I have no idea what a Stratosphere is, what it looks like or where to find it. Want me to turn? That's what God, in her infinite wisdom, invented vectors for. :)
So if I flew into Vegas, I would probably review any visual approach charts (in case they are charted, like Nantucket) or I would ask for clarification.
(FWIW, I did not find any visual approach charts into KLAS)
 
BigBadLou said:
Frankly, I have no idea what a Stratosphere is
Click to expand...
Same here, I Googled it to double check. I also didn't see any specific visual approach charts into Vegas, looking at the sectional VFR waypoints on that plane's route of flight would have been Sunset Park, El Cortez, Town Square Building, etc... etc.
 
Tantalum said:
Same here, I Googled it to double check. I also didn't see any specific visual approach charts into Vegas, looking at the sectional VFR waypoints on that plane's route of flight would have been Sunset Park, El Cortez, Town Square Building, etc... etc.
Click to expand...
Those are all pretty prominent waypoints, but if you're unfamiliar with the area, could be a charlie foxtrot
 
Tantalum said:
This was a pretty educational video for me. Kudos to the poster for uploading it, I'm always pretty embarrassed if my radio handling isn't textbook, so I don't think I would have uploaded this

I was confused when the controller said "don't go any further right" and thought the "I've got jets to land behind you sir" was a tad aggressive but overall kudos to ATC for talking this guy down and the pilot for not getting too frazzled...

Click to expand...
I think I get it, he was flying north, kind of on a very wide downwind, the controller wanted him to fly towards the Stratosphere tower a very tall landmark to set up a base leg when abeam the tower, but I think the controller mistakenly said 'turn final when abeam' which added to the confusion. So, the guy was probably confused and said he saw it but didn't fly toward it. Then the controller comes back wondering when he is going to turn towards the tower to set up the base leg and ends up giving him vectors which would've helped in the first place.

probably something like this, i think the controller wanted him to do the dotted line:
upload_2017-5-3_16-11-12.png
 
It is a big space needle type buiding, you can help seeing it.
 
Yeah when I Googled it up it definitely seems like a good waypoint, but "stratosphere" wouldn't be obvious to me to fly towards that building. @exncsurfer that map looks right, it makes sense now what he was doing vs what the controller had intended for him to do
 
Except for not following his first vector assignment he did okay. Two things may have served him a little better, especially in McCarran's airspace.

1. Never accept local landmarks as a waypoint if not familiar. Request vectors (and altitude assigns) instead. But ya gotta turn on those vectors when assigned of course.
2. On an unfamiliar field like McCarran say "unfamiliar" once handed to ground control. Then they know to treat you more gently and give you directions. If you don't and make mistakes you will get yelled at usually.
 
citizen5000 said:
Except for not following his first vector assignment he did okay. Two things may have served him a little better, especially in McCarran's airspace.

1. Never accept local landmarks as a waypoint if not familiar. Request vectors (and altitude assigns) instead. But ya gotta turn on those vectors when assigned of course.
2. On an unfamiliar field like McCarran say "unfamiliar" once handed to ground control. Then they know to treat you more gently and give you directions. If you don't and make mistakes you will get yelled at usually.
Click to expand...
I agree with number 1. I agree with 2 to an extent. If you are going into a place like LAS, you better step your game up. Don't come into a busy Class B unprepared.
 
I admit I lost clarity with the controller's instructions when he said "abeam" the stratosphere. I understand the meaning of the word abeam but it is very easy to understand "abeam" when its referring to a runway or something linear. "Abeam the numbers" is easy because it's referring to the right angle you make with the runway from your position. Abeam a single point could differ quite a bit depending on your crab angle alone... IDK, maybe I'm the one deficient with direction taking but I do find it a little irritating when controller utilize non-standard phraseology assuming everyone they are talking to is familiar with the area.
 
jordane93 said:
Don't come into a busy Class B unprepared
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Yeah, and the guy did say this was his second or third time there. But for the most part I agree, he didn't have any major blunders like that other video that floated around where the pilot didn't know what "resume own nav" meant

I still found in my experience though you are best off preparing yourself as much as possible, tell them you are unfamiliar, and then follow directions closely and be on your game. I'd rather impress the ATC guy with "wow, his first time and he nailed it" vs "who is this joker?"

I was surprised to hear as much chatting with his passenger (wife? girlfriend? secretary?) as I did.. once I'm in that final descent and landing phase I only talk to my pax if it is an emergecy or if something scary (to non pilots) is about to happen, like a go around or something
 
BigBadLou said:
Sounds like they have specific VFR procedures at the TRACON and had some issues communicating that.
Especially if a controller is talking to a non-native speaker, they should be patient and expect a correction here and there, IMO.

Frankly, I have no idea what a Stratosphere is, what it looks like or where to find it. Want me to turn? That's what God, in her infinite wisdom, invented vectors for. :)
So if I flew into Vegas, I would probably review any visual approach charts (in case they are charted, like Nantucket) or I would ask for clarification.
(FWIW, I did not find any visual approach charts into KLAS)
Click to expand...
Me neither. ATC will often use uncharted landmarks known locally. It's up to the pilot to respond, "unfamiliar" if not known. If the pilot in the video didn't know what it was but said ok, it's in the pilot.
 
jordane93 said:
I agree with number 1. I agree with 2 to an extent. If you are going into a place like LAS, you better step your game up. Don't come into a busy Class B unprepared.
Click to expand...

On the ground stuff, unprepared isn't a good idea, but they will just deal with it (even if it means just moving you out of the way and telling you to wait there) if you request progressive taxi instructions.

Never had to do it, but nobody wants to see anyone running into anyone else, and unless it's push/bank time for someone in a big hub, they'll figure out how to help out.

Even if it means just parking you somewhere out of the way and asking the FBO to send a Follow Me vehicle out to escort ya.

LAS is pretty tame on the ground compared to a few of 'em. Listening before a trip with a taxi diagram out and LiveATC and seeing how the "flow" of any particular large airport goes, is one way to become "prepared", and it's free.

(I think I like listening to Kennedy Ground more than the Tower on LiveATC. Of course some of that is for Kennedy Steve's recordings over the years, but all the controllers there do a great job and what sounds like a cluster**** at first, actually makes total sense if you listen and watch with a taxi diagram for a while.)

Kennedy Steve picking on the rug drivers is so freaking funny I often start laughing out loud with headphones on.

Progressives if needed are always better than, "Bugsmasher 123, STOP STOP STOP... where are you going?!"
 
Tantalum said:
This was a pretty educational video for me. Kudos to the poster for uploading it, I'm always pretty embarrassed if my radio handling isn't textbook, so I don't think I would have uploaded this

I was confused when the controller said "don't go any further right" and thought the "I've got jets to land behind you sir" was a tad aggressive but overall kudos to ATC for talking this guy down and the pilot for not getting too frazzled...

Click to expand...
This seemed like a fairly normal flight to me. Pilot made a couple of minor mistakes quickly and easily corrected, but nothing that seemed that embarrassing to me.
 
Tantalum said:
This was a pretty educational video for me. Kudos to the poster for uploading it, I'm always pretty embarrassed if my radio handling isn't textbook, so I don't think I would have uploaded this

I was confused when the controller said "don't go any further right" ]
Click to expand...

Might be because Nellis AFB is NE of Vegas.
 
denverpilot said:
On the ground stuff, unprepared isn't a good idea, but they will just deal with it (even if it means just moving you out of the way and telling you to wait there) if you request progressive taxi instructions.

Never had to do it, but nobody wants to see anyone running into anyone else, and unless it's push/bank time for someone in a big hub, they'll figure out how to help out.

Even if it means just parking you somewhere out of the way and asking the FBO to send a Follow Me vehicle out to escort ya.

LAS is pretty tame on the ground compared to a few of 'em. Listening before a trip with a taxi diagram out and LiveATC and seeing how the "flow" of any particular large airport goes, is one way to become "prepared", and it's free.

(I think I like listening to Kennedy Ground more than the Tower on LiveATC. Of course some of that is for Kennedy Steve's recordings over the years, but all the controllers there do a great job and what sounds like a cluster**** at first, actually makes total sense if you listen and watch with a taxi diagram for a while.)

Kennedy Steve picking on the rug drivers is so freaking funny I often start laughing out loud with headphones on.

Progressives if needed are always better than, "Bugsmasher 123, STOP STOP STOP... where are you going?!"
Click to expand...
I've talked to Kennedy Steve a bunch of times on the radio and he never says anything funny!
 
Have you guys heard of Tucson Tim? Hilarious!

Just last night...

C-130 - "Tower, there's a dead critter at about the five thousand five hundred remaining marker."
TT - "What did it look like, a bird, rabbit, coyote, javelina, mountain lion?"
C-130 - "Looked like a rabbit."
TT - "Was it two dimensional?"
C-130 - "It was more like a raised surface."
TT - "I'll tell them to bring the scraper and a shovel."
 
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Timbeck2 said:
Have you guys heard of Tucson Tim? Hilarious!

Just last night...

C-130 - "Tower, there's a dead critter at about the five thousand five hundred remaining marker."
TT - "What did it look like, a bird, rabbit, coyote, javelina, mountain lion?"
C-130 - "Looked like a rabbit."
TT - "Was it two dimensional?"
C-130 - "It was more like a raised surface."
TT - "I'll tell them to bring the scraper and a shovel."
Click to expand...

"Rabbit 1, I need you to exit the runway immediately and contact Ground. Where do you park?" ... no answer... "Rabbit 1 if you can hear me, I need you to copy a phone number, possible rabbit deviation..."

Would have been pretty funny.
 
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