Is the FAA medical the absolute barrier to one becoming a pilot over all others?

N918KT

N918KT

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Just wondering, would you agree that getting an FAA medical is the absolute barrier to becoming a pilot, over other barriers such as money and time? The reason why I think is while some people can improve their health, there are certain medical conditions such as ADHD and other severe mental illness that could prevent a person from learning to fly, no matter how mild it is or how much their condition improved with or without medication, right?

I believe that you can have the time and money to fly when the conditions are right like when you have a good paying job or if you make the time to fly, but for the medical, if you are born with something like ADHD or other severe mental illness, then no matter what you try to do to improve your condition, you cannot meet the FAA medical standards to fly. Would you agree that the FAA medical is the biggest hurdle for some to overcome?
 
No it isn't. There are plenty of things you can fly without a medical, most of the really fun stuff doesn't require a medical. Stop stewing in no medical pity and go fly something.
 
ClimbnSink said:
No it isn't. There are plenty of things you can fly without a medical, most of the really fun stuff doesn't require a medical. Stop stewing in no medical pity and go fly something.
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Thanks for the response so far. Greg, I meant that the medical might be the biggest barrier for the PPL student and pilot. I already know that you can go SPL, gliders, balloons, and ultralights without a medical.
 
N918KT said:
Thanks for the response so far. Greg, I meant that the medical might be the biggest barrier for the PPL student and pilot. I already know that you can go SPL, gliders, balloons, and ultralights without a medical.
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Go skydiving. PPL stuff is boring anyway.
 
No, it's a non-issue for the vast majority....not much more than an average physical exam.

There are some gotchas like ADHD, but that still a minority. I think $$$ is the number one obstacle for most of my students, especially the younger ones.
 
There is an SI or waiver for almost everything. What stops people from following through are the $$s involved in going that route. So the medical can be a wall, but it can be climbed over (most of the time) given enough time and money.
 
Also bear in mind that if push came to shove, you could move to another country with less stringent GA certification rules (e.g. Central/South America.)
 
Money is the ultimate barrier. Nothing, airplane nor pilot (medical or otherwise) gets airborne without money. Period, the end.
 
LDJones said:
No, it's a non-issue for the vast majority....not much more than an average physical exam.

There are some gotchas like ADHD, but that still a minority. I think $$$ is the number one obstacle for most of my students, especially the younger ones.
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LDJones, yes I know that the medical is a non-issue for almost all of pilots. What I meant to say is that for the minority that have some medical conditions, my thinking is some of the minority's medical condition can be so severe or different from a normal person that no matter what you do the improve it, that person may not still even qualify for a PPL medical.

That is why I think the medical is the absolute barrier to flying. When I mean absolute barrier, I mean the barrier that only a few cannot overcome no matter what.
 
N918KT said:
LDJones, yes I know that the medical is a non-issue for almost all of pilots. What I meant to say is that for the minority that have some medical conditions, my thinking is some of the minority's medical condition can be so severe or different from a normal person that no matter what you do the improve it, that person may not still even qualify for a PPL medical.

That is why I think the medical is the absolute barrier to flying. When I mean absolute barrier, I mean the barrier that only a few cannot overcome no matter what.
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You don't need a medical to fly as Sport Pilot (but check, I am not very familiar) or to fly Gliders (I believe).

Also, nothing prevents Mr. Cessna 210 owner who lost his medical, from hiring the local CFI to ride in either seat on all flights and be the "pilot" for legal compliance purposes.

But, in both examples above, money is needed.
 
B350ATP said:
You don't need a medical to fly as Sport Pilot (but check, I am not very familiar) or to fly Gliders (I believe).

Also, nothing prevents Mr. Cessna 210 owner who lost his medical, from hiring the local CFI to ride in either seat on all flights and be the "pilot" for legal compliance purposes.

But, in both examples above, money is needed.
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Oh, I see. Yes, I agree with you that money is needed for flying in general and is a barrier to a lot of people. But if we are talking about a person trying to get his PPL and keep his PPL, then the medical may be a barrier, but may be an absolute barrier for some PPL students and pilots. For Sport Pilot and other types of flying not requiring a medical, then yes I agree that money may be a barrier.
 
N918KT said:
Oh, I see. Yes, I agree with you that money is needed for flying in general and is a barrier to a lot of people. But if we are talking about a person trying to get his PPL and keep his PPL, then the medical may be a barrier, but may be an absolute barrier for some PPL students and pilots. For Sport Pilot and other types of flying not requiring a medical, then yes I agree that money may be a barrier.
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regarding barrier "to fly" (fly, period, no matter what the certification or aircraft type, just "fly"), the ultimate is money

to "become a private pilot and fly solo [no other pilots in the cockpit]" then yes, medical.
 
N918KT said:
Yes, that I agree with you.
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To flip this around, ask the question like this

1. "I have no medical, but want to go fly". How ?

2. "I have no money, but want to go fly". How ?

Of the two above, the one more difficult to solve, is #2
 
B350ATP said:
To flip this around, ask the question like this

1. "I have no medical, but want to go fly". How ?

2. "I have no money, but want to go fly". How ?

Of the two above, the one more difficult to solve, is #2
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Sport Pilots fly on a drivers license for a medical. A Sport Pilot trains the same as a PP with three exceptions:

1. no night flying
2. no flying over 10k feet or 2k feet over elevated terrain whichever is higher
3. must pilot an LSA, can be experimental or SLSA (most are cheaper than used Cessnas).
4. must have endorsement for ATC and faster than 80kts from CFI (can fly into all classes except A)

Unlike Recreational Pilots, there are no distance restrictions, just height.
 
I disclosed that I had ADD as a child and they still granted me my medical. I don't know about ADHD but I agree that the barrier to getting up is $$$.
 
So that's why they sent me to the shrink. :goofy:
 
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Oh BTW the shrink was $2,500 for the report. So we are back to $$$ to get up. :yes:
 
Sac Arrow said:
Also bear in mind that if push came to shove, you could move to another country with less stringent GA certification rules (e.g. Central/South America.)
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there really are no easier places. America ia the end all be all of aviation medical certification. Practically anyone with a pulse can get a medical from the FAA, compared to the rest of the world.
 
I think that for the student Pilot that has money, the medical is the principle barrier. I live in the DC area and there's not exactly an abundance of LSAs for rent so the medical prevents one from training in one of a million 172s, 150s and Cherokees. Personally for me, too many ultralights look like lawn chairs with wings and ones that don't are single seat, which makes training difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.
 
There is no such thing as ADHD. It is purely an American-made excuse to sell psychotropic drugs to the deluded masses looking for that elusive magic pill that cures their (insert malady here______).

Follow the money, quite making excuses for your life, get your sh*t together, and L-I-V-E!
 
MooneyDude said:
There is no such thing as ADHD. It is purely an American-made excuse to sell psychotropic drugs to the deluded masses looking for that elusive magic pill that cures their (insert malady here______).



Follow the money, quite making excuses for your life, get your sh*t together, and L-I-V-E!
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Oh how I wish that were true. But if that helps you feel good about yourself and sleep at night, go for it.
 
Out of the boat load of people I've trained over the years medicals haven't been a issue, I've found them to be less intrusive then a school sports physical.

Seems like most folks that I read about getting shot down are due to paperwork or an acquit case of diarrhea of the mouth.


Biggest barrier I've seen is $$$$
 
Fearless Tower said:
Oh how I wish that were true. But if that helps you feel good about yourself and sleep at night, go for it.
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I have a dear friend who has BHFNOAM (Broke His F'in Neck On A Motorcycle) syndrome. Happened on November 7th, 1982. I remember this day like yesterday because I was riding my dirt bike right behind his on that Long Island fire road lined by power poles. He's been a quad ever since, but has remained:

a. almost entirely self-sufficient

b. employed on a full-time basis

c. in possession of the greatest, no-excuse, this is now my new life attitude that one could ever have

He never used it as an excuse or a crutch, as so many might have been apt to do. He is an achiever!

As a 25+ year retired navy pilot (Oceana till three years ago, if you must know), I also know of several military folks who have been diagnosed with HMFLBO (Had My F'in Legs Blown Off) syndrome due to mines, IEDs, etc. Several of these folks have since run or pushed themselves through marathons. No maladies in their mind. No excuses. No drugs to 'cope.'

Every one of us is AFU one way or another. Just can't make excuses for it is all. . .

No such thing as ADHD. I was stationed in Japan for several years, and befriended a few locals. One of them was a school teacher. Don't remember what it was that got us into the conversation, but the subject of ADD / ADHD came up, upon which this lady became flummoxed and unable to understand what this actually was, as it was not something they 'had' in Japan. Is that to say that our class of humans is different from theirs? Of course not. . .

Tonight you will go to bed mad at yourself for falling into the trap that someone, a long time ago, convinced you or your parents that you were afflicted with some sort of malady, when in reality you were just unique - like everyone else. . .

Cheers!
 
My experience is limited but from my own 3rd class and listening to pilots talk about it, I think you get false impression of how hard it is from reading the medical topics forum over here.

Not that anyone is being disingenuous but that forum is for people with hard cases and everyone is interpreting regs and what could happen in the most pessimistic light possible.

Are you healthy and you know it? Nothing crazy like DUIs or epilepsy or any diagnosed psychological disorders? Most likely, you will pass.

The biggest barrier is absolutely money... I've tried to recruit a few friends into the fold and the simple fact is most people just don't have the kind of money it takes to do this unless they really make it a priority and skimp on other things.

#2 is probably time. For the average person with a full time job, trying to get the minimum 40-some hours... and more likely 80+ hours of training in is hard. Working around your instructor's schedule, your schedule, and the weather is a bear. Then when you realize you loose skill/progress when you take a month off between lessons it's worse.

Oh and don't forget you have to study for the knowledge test too. I have a 4 year college degree in computer science and I am pretty sure this is the hardest test I've ever studied for. Some may laugh at that, but my typical college study routine was to spend 30-minutes to an hour the night before flipping through the study material, then go in and if I had any clue what I was doing get at least a B, probably an A. I spent days and days reading, re-reading, and doing mock tests for the FAA exam. It's not really that any one concept is that hard, it's just that there are a lot of concepts to learn at once combined with a lot of bulk memorization of things. Couldn't just wing it like I could in school.


Obviously, it can be done... but you have to really want it. When you consider the time and money it takes vs just buying a $500 airline ticket and $100 for a rental car, someone has to have a lot more than a passing interest to pursue this all the way through.
 
MooneyDude said:
I have a dear friend who has BHFNOAM (Broke His F'in Neck On A Motorcycle) syndrome. Happened on November 7th, 1982. I remember this day like yesterday because I was riding my dirt bike right behind his on that Long Island fire road lined by power poles. He's been a quad ever since, but has remained:

a. almost entirely self-sufficient

b. employed on a full-time basis

c. in possession of the greatest, no-excuse, this is now my new life attitude that one could ever have

He never used it as an excuse or a crutch, as so many might have been apt to do. He is an achiever!

As a 25+ year retired navy pilot (Oceana till three years ago, if you must know), I also know of several military folks who have been diagnosed with HMFLBO (Had My F'in Legs Blown Off) syndrome due to mines, IEDs, etc. Several of these folks have since run or pushed themselves through marathons. No maladies in their mind. No excuses. No drugs to 'cope.'

Every one of us is AFU one way or another. Just can't make excuses for it is all. . .

No such thing as ADHD. I was stationed in Japan for several years, and befriended a few locals. One of them was a school teacher. Don't remember what it was that got us into the conversation, but the subject of ADD / ADHD came up, upon which this lady became flummoxed and unable to understand what this actually was, as it was not something they 'had' in Japan. Is that to say that our class of humans is different from theirs? Of course not. . .

Tonight you will go to bed mad at yourself for falling into the trap that someone, a long time ago, convinced you or your parents that you were afflicted with some sort of malady, when in reality you were just unique - like everyone else. . .

Cheers!
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Amen!

Most of the kids I knew who "have" ADHD or ADD, etc all have one thing in common, poor upbringing or absent parental figures.

Take some damn responsibility people.
 
I think the definition of ADHD is so broad that skeptics(yeah, I'm one) have a hard time believing that every single energetic kid needs to be medicated.
 
MooneyDude said:
There is no such thing as ADHD. It is purely an American-made excuse to sell psychotropic drugs to the deluded masses looking for that elusive magic pill that cures their (insert malady here______).

Follow the money, quite making excuses for your life, get your sh*t together, and L-I-V-E!
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what I told the shrink. If anything the Dr was the crazy 1. I was just a kid with more energy than the rest of the bunch. I also did not play video games I had an ATC or a dirt bike since I can remember. The weekends the family didn't go to the house in the keys and go out on the boat we usually spent in the Everglades hunting or screwing around. I sure as he'll wasn't going to let the FAA keep me from getting my medical because some crazy Dr made a mistake 25yrs ago. I went and saw that shrink and took them 1000 question test to let them know what time it was. My instructor told me all you have to do is not comply with one thing and they will not give you a PPL. We'll I complied and they had no choice :yes:
 
MooneyDude said:
I have a dear friend who has BHFNOAM (Broke His F'in Neck On A Motorcycle) syndrome. Happened on November 7th, 1982. I remember this day like yesterday because I was riding my dirt bike right behind his on that Long Island fire road lined by power poles. He's been a quad ever since, but has remained:

a. almost entirely self-sufficient

b. employed on a full-time basis

c. in possession of the greatest, no-excuse, this is now my new life attitude that one could ever have

He never used it as an excuse or a crutch, as so many might have been apt to do. He is an achiever!

As a 25+ year retired navy pilot (Oceana till three years ago, if you must know), I also know of several military folks who have been diagnosed with HMFLBO (Had My F'in Legs Blown Off) syndrome due to mines, IEDs, etc. Several of these folks have since run or pushed themselves through marathons. No maladies in their mind. No excuses. No drugs to 'cope.'

Every one of us is AFU one way or another. Just can't make excuses for it is all. . .

No such thing as ADHD. I was stationed in Japan for several years, and befriended a few locals. One of them was a school teacher. Don't remember what it was that got us into the conversation, but the subject of ADD / ADHD came up, upon which this lady became flummoxed and unable to understand what this actually was, as it was not something they 'had' in Japan. Is that to say that our class of humans is different from theirs? Of course not. . .

Tonight you will go to bed mad at yourself for falling into the trap that someone, a long time ago, convinced you or your parents that you were afflicted with some sort of malady, when in reality you were just unique - like everyone else. . .

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Wow. That is a whole lot of typing to present an argument with no substance.
 
LandSickness said:
I think the definition of ADHD is so broad that skeptics(yeah, I'm one) have a hard time believing that every single energetic kid needs to be medicated.
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That is exactly the problem. It isn't that it doesn't exist, but that some unscrupulous folks in the medical, pharmaceutical and education communities have (for various reasons) morphed it into something bigger than it actually is. There are a TON of young folks who have been given that label and medicated with nothing wrong with them.
 
As an amputee, and someone who underwent some psychiatric treatment as a teen (no drugs just talk therapy related to the amputation) I feel reasonably comfortable saying that money was always the primary obstacle for the issues I was dealing with.

Lack of ankle, can be overcome by technique and a SODA.

History of therapy can be explained and medical can be issued without restriction.

The issue is being able to afford a CFI, to afford the planes, to afford the AME, to afford a specialist like Dr. Bruce if need be.

Many options for someone who wants to be 'a pilot' as in someone who flies in aircraft of some sort. For someone committed to becoming a licensed pilot, there a few less options but money is the limiting factor, followed by the need for a base level of aptitude for the physical skills, as well as the basic intellectual capacity and the commitment to do the work.

Honestly I'd put medical fairly far down the list of obstacles to overcome - and I have had several challenges over nearly 30 with respect to medical.

'Gimp
 
AcroGimp said:
As an amputee, and someone who underwent some psychiatric treatment as a teen (no drugs just talk therapy related to the amputation) I feel reasonably comfortable saying that money was always the primary obstacle for the issues I was dealing with.

Lack of ankle, can be overcome by technique and a SODA.

History of therapy can be explained and medical can be issued without restriction.

The issue is being able to afford a CFI, to afford the planes, to afford the AME, to afford a specialist like Dr. Bruce if need be.

Many options for someone who wants to be 'a pilot' as in someone who flies in aircraft of some sort. For someone committed to becoming a licensed pilot, there a few less options but money is the limiting factor, followed by the need for a base level of aptitude for the physical skills, as well as the basic intellectual capacity and the commitment to do the work.

Honestly I'd put medical fairly far down the list of obstacles to overcome - and I have had several challenges over nearly 30 with respect to medical.

'Gimp
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+1 for money
 
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