Is a Tailwheel Endorsement worth it?

The sad thing is I hear a lot of TW pilots telling me how much safer they are because they fly TW. I've heard this a lot. And I am utterly convinced they take the easy way out. I really am.

Year in and year out the biggest killer of pilots is weather. The best way for you to be a really safe pilot is to understand weather. Problem is that's hard, takes a bunch of book learning and you never really know when you've "got it". So you do the TW training, which is easy by comparison, short, and delivers that "Aha" moment when you think you've got it. And pat yourself on the back on what a safe pilot you are.

Probably ruffle some feathers, but that's how I see it.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Really? How so?
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Words come out of their mouths to the effect of "I am a safer pilot because I have the skill to fly tailwheel". Their worlds enter my ears and flow to my brain via the auditory nerve, and are processed into speech and recognition in my auditory cortex. I respond by quickly chaining the subject tif possible.

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Easy way out of what?
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Being a safer pilot. Personally, I think one pilot is safer than another because of their better judgement, not their ability to land a TW. Again, just me.
 
I'm sure it makes them a better 'pilot of the aircraft' but does not make their decision making skills any better certainly... Anyone who had advanced knowledge of the rudder and can slip it, forward stick it, and work all their eyes hands and feet at the same time does indicate that (if current in the aircraft) they know how to handle a vast array of physical sensory input and output - more-so than the average C150 pilot - but ADM certainly has nothing to do with that! :)

~Brendan
 
steingar said:
Words come out of their mouths to the effect of "I am a safer pilot because I have the skill to fly tailwheel". Their worlds enter my ears and flow to my brain via the auditory nerve, and are processed into speech and recognition in my auditory cortex. I respond by quickly chaining the subject tif possible.


Being a safer pilot. Personally, I think one pilot is safer than another because of their better judgement, not their ability to land a TW. Again, just me.
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I think you make a valid point. My 100 hours or so in the Luscombe certainly made me a better pilot but my efforts to understand weather would likely yield a better return in safety. One "problem" I have living in Miami is that we rarely see frontal weather and have no orographic concerns at all.

That said, I think you make it much too much of an "either-or" proposition.
 
Like has been said before, I think the biggest advantage for a TW endorsement is (once you build time) the oppurtunity to fly some rather cool airplanes!
 
My club just added a tail wheel - 7AC Champ - to its fleet. It's definitely on my list to be checked out in.

I think my next checkout will be the Remos, after that, the Champ.
 
Trying to think back almost 40 years to what drove me to travel to Homestead General to get my tailwheel endorsement in a Cub.

I think it probably just sounded like fun and a challenge.

Later, it opened up business opportunities as I was sought after to ferry cropdusters to the Caribbean and South America. Made money and squirreled away some great memories. Also did lots of tailwheel instructing in my two Citabrias over the years, and I think my students and I all benefited from the experience. Later also made a few bucks ferrying that biplane I've posted about before.

I think safety might be enhanced a bit by making a pilot relearn how to land close to or at a full stall. That means less energy carried into the touchdown, even in nosewheel airplanes, albeit not appropriate for all planes all the time.
 
RalphInCA said:
My club just added a tail wheel - 7AC Champ - to its fleet. It's definitely on my list to be checked out in.

I think my next checkout will be the Remos, after that, the Champ.
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7ac, lots of fun. Sort of like a John Deere with wings. You'll have fun. I learned to fly in the 85 hp version. Please report your findings.
 
steingar said:
Words come out of their mouths to the effect of "I am a safer pilot because I have the skill to fly tailwheel".
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That is, of course, nonsense. You are correct when you say:
Personally, I think one pilot is safer than another because of their better judgement, not their ability to land a TW. Again, just me.
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CFI AandP said:
Here is a question for those who say "If you're not going to fly tailwheel after, don't waste the money." Would you say the same about a single engine seaplane rating? By comparison, the weekend seaplane courses are about the same cost. Very few people fly seaplanes after their checkride.
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Which is why I suggested wrapping the TW up with a FR when needed. Unless he has some current TW opportunity.
 
You can think of it this way; many people get their IFR ticket and never use it. The skill is very perishable and therefore lost, but the knowledge of what can be done will not. Same with TW skills; they will diminish but the knowledge of what can be done will not.

The good news in both cases is that those skills can be easily refreshed if desired.
 
Bill Watson said:
You can think of it this way; many people get their IFR ticket and never use it. The skill is very perishable and therefore lost, but the knowledge of what can be done will not. Same with TW skills; they will diminish but the knowledge of what can be done will not.

The good news in both cases is that those skills can be easily refreshed if desired.
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Personally, I think the IR makes one a much safer pilot. In addition to improving one's airmanship one learns a great deal about the biggest killer of pilots, weather.
 
If you want to "gain skills" take some lessons in a CTSW. You'll discover muscles in your legs you probably forgot you had. Good 'ol stick and rudder fun. And some energy management learnin' too.
 
CT4ME said:
If you want to "gain skills" take some lessons in a CTSW. You'll discover muscles in your legs you probably forgot you had. Good 'ol stick and rudder fun. And some energy management learnin' too.
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A CTSW?

That the trike that somewhat looks like an egg?
 
James331 said:
That the trike that somewhat looks like an egg?
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Don't be insulting.

I think they prefer to think it as a sperm.

But a happy sperm!


CTSW-1.jpg
 
It totally does look like a happy sperm lol!
 
steingar said:
Personally, I think the IR makes one a much safer pilot. In addition to improving one's airmanship one learns a great deal about the biggest killer of pilots, weather.
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I would agree that the IR is much more valuable than any TW endorsement if that's part of what you were saying and that it definitely improves one's airmanship in many ways.

But from what I've read here on POA, many pilots get their IR without weather training beyond what is covered in the written. Getting the rating 'wet' can start the process but more to the point, whether VFR or IFR, you have to go out and fly some missions with some weather. That is, have a destination, analyze the weather, plan the flight and try to fly it. That's when pilots really learn about weather.
 
CFI AandP said:
Here is a question for those who say "If you're not going to fly tailwheel after, don't waste the money." Would you say the same about a single engine seaplane rating? By comparison, the weekend seaplane courses are about the same cost. Very few people fly seaplanes after their checkride.
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Yes, I would say the same thing about a single engine seaplane rating.
 
Yeah, but if you just want to do it for fun??? Do either you like.....
 
ja_user said:
Yeah, but if you just want to do it for fun??? Do either you like.....
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The OP wondered if it would be worth $1650 from a safety perspective if he didn't plan to use it, no I don't believe it would.......nor do I think a seaplane rating would be worth it either from a safety perspective if you didn't plan to use it. For that matter I'd say the same thing about the multi-engine rating or the instrument rating.
 
Once you fly a tailwheel you will not want to fly a boring tricycle again. DO IT!
 
Ryanb said:
My school offers a TW endorsement for 1650.00 in their Super D. Are there really any big benefits to getting it, if i dont really plan to fly tailwheel? As far as for a safety perspective?
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Do they have a helicopter or even a gyroplane? Maybe you should save your nickels for something like that rather than wasting it on yet-another-fixed-wing-gizmo-with-some-other-arrangement-of-landing-gear.
 
If you want to fly any "fun" airplane they are all tailwheel. Once I flew a Decathlon it was a whole new type of flying for me. I was bored beating around in my 172. After the Super D I sold me Cessna and bought one. After that the fun began, Skybolt, Pitts, Staudacher, J-3 Cub and a couple of Christen Eagles. Here are a few of the fun ones I had. I do not fly for travel but fly for fun. I guess everyone has a different purpose. After flying acro I thought I wanted a helicopter. I took 1 lesson and thought it was kinda boring. Hanging upside down in a open cockpit biplane is much more exciting :)
 

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pigpenracing said:
If you want to fly any "fun" airplane they are all tailwheel. Once I flew a Decathlon it was a whole new type of flying for me. I was bored beating around in my 172. After the Super D I sold me Cessna and bought one. After that the fun began, Skybolt, Pitts, Staudacher, J-3 Cub and a couple of Christen Eagles. Here are a few of the fun ones I had. I do not fly for travel but fly for fun. I guess everyone has a different purpose. After flying acro I thought I wanted a helicopter. I took 1 lesson and thought it was kinda boring. Hanging upside down in a open cockpit biplane is much more exciting :)
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I had the same experience. I got around 100hrs after I got my PPL and quit flying for a year because I could only afford to fly 1/2-1hr radius of the airport and it was boring. Got my tailwheel check out in a Great Lakes (brand new 1978 airplane for $32hr wet). The school also had Citabrias and Super Decathalons that I also flew. I am also mainly a sport flyer and have owned and flown a lot of great airplanes in the last 34 years. Right now I have the keys to a N3N, Super Cub, C140, Stinson 108, RV7 and a Glasstar. Also do aerobatic and spin training while you're at it. I think if every new PPL would take a good aerobatic course there would be a lot less stall/spin accidents. Don
 
The price is about what plane and CFI would charge for 10 hours. So in that sense it is worth it.

If you own a TW and plan to fly it then a TW endorsement is required. ( Or grandfathered in.)
 
CFI AandP said:
Most of the tailwheel students I've had were up and coming professional pilots that sought out a tailwheel endorsement while they were in the 150-250 hour range. It was a great opportunity to learn a new style of flying while in between instrument rating and commercial training.
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Perfect time to do it building hours for the commercial!
 
you don't know what opportunities you will face in the future. get the endorsement. I did it for no particular reason right after I got my CFI. Just seemed like it would be fun and a challenge. Then I move to college and lo and behold the glider club has a Super Cub for towing. I decide I might like that and then I get a glider flight. Then I turn into a crazed soaring lunatic. All because I just decided to get a tailwheel endorsement for the hell of it.
 
tonycondon said:
you don't know what opportunities you will face in the future. get the endorsement. I did it for no particular reason right after I got my CFI. Just seemed like it would be fun and a challenge. Then I move to college and lo and behold the glider club has a Super Cub for towing. I decide I might like that and then I get a glider flight. Then I turn into a crazed soaring lunatic. All because I just decided to get a tailwheel endorsement for the hell of it.
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Exactly! Opens new vistas! New people, fun! Well worth the time and expense.
 
tonycondon said:
you don't know what opportunities you will face in the future. get the endorsement. I did it for no particular reason right after I got my CFI. Just seemed like it would be fun and a challenge. Then I move to college and lo and behold the glider club has a Super Cub for towing. I decide I might like that and then I get a glider flight. Then I turn into a crazed soaring lunatic. All because I just decided to get a tailwheel endorsement for the hell of it.
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When the opportunity presents itself though, the endorsement can be attained in a day or a weekend. I'm not against it, I just don't see it being worth $1650 in safety (or anything else really unless you have forward access to a TW plane) unless it combines with a basic aerobatics course.
 
Henning said:
When the opportunity presents itself though, the endorsement can be attained in a day or a weekend. I'm not against it, I just don't see it being worth $1650 in safety (or anything else really unless you have forward access to a TW plane) unless it combines with a basic aerobatics course.
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TW training in one day, yeah about that... Will they let you solo at the end of the day?


I think the insurance deductible might be more than 1600.
 
James331 said:
TW training in one day, yeah about that... Will they let you solo at the end of the day?


I think the insurance deductible might be more than 1600.
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No, you don't need to solo their plane, you just need the rating. Mine took 1.2 hrs to sign off the rating, my first flight in the Citabria. After I finished the next 8.8 or whatever to finish the 10hrs aerobatic training I was able to rent solo and take pax. Rating only means that you have been given the knowledge and demonstrated you absorbed and understand it. It does not medicate you have yet mastered it.
 
I don't doubt that one could find an instructor that would sign off on a tailwheel endorsement after one days instruction, and if you're lucky you might subsequently go on to learn what you need to know before you wreck an airplane.
 
My only tail wheel training was in an AH-64....lock and unlock switch...and flying it for 14 years....probably does not count...but beat skids for sure.
 
peerlesscowboy said:
I don't doubt that one could find an instructor that would sign off on a tailwheel endorsement after one days instruction, and if you're lucky you might subsequently go on to learn what you need to know before you wreck an airplane.
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If one has proper training from a good CFI in a 152, transitioning to a Tailwheel is no big issue. The problem isn't that tail wheels are difficult, it's that most CFIs can't fly for **** therefore can't teach flying for ****.
 
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