Is a digital (PDF) version of POH good enough?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by MountainDude, Jan 23, 2023.

  1. MountainDude

    MountainDude Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Can I remove my POH from the plane, since I have a digital version on my iDevices?
    My POH is large and heavy, and I never use the printed version.
     
  2. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Line Up and Wait

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  3. mandm

    mandm Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Digital devices can die, paper copy is a good option.
     
  4. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    This is the thing from the Beech Talk thread @Sierra_Hotel mentioned.

    Yes.

    https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... _91_78.pdf

    Electronic Flight Bag (EFB). An electronic display system intended primarily for cockpit or cabin use. EFB devices can display a variety of aviation data (e.g., checklists, navigation charts, pilot’s operating handbook (POH)) or perform basic calculations (e.g., performance data, fuel calculations).

    ...

    EFBs/ECDs can be used during all phases of flight operations in lieu of paper reference material when the information displayed meets the following criteria:

    (1) The components or systems onboard the aircraft which display precomposed or interactive information are the functional equivalent of the paper reference material.

    (2) The interactive or precomposed information being used for navigation or performance planning is current, up-to-date, and valid.

    In simple terms, scans of official paper documents are treated as if they were paper. They are precomposed (printed on paper) and they are current.
     
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  5. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Is your digital copy specific to your airplane? Or is it a generic POH?
     
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  6. kyleb

    kyleb Final Approach

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    Sometimes it is dark and you don't have a flashlight. Paper isn't so good then. The ithingie works fine in the dark (until it doesn't). Point is, there is no perfect solution.

    I'd say you need a copy of the POH that works. So if your idevice is working, you're good. If it stops working, you're probably on the ground until you get it working.
     
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  7. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Wow! Going to the FAA docs to see what the FAA says is ok. What a concept!

    Yeah, it's discussed in AC 91-78 and even more extensively in AC 120-76D, Authorization for Use of Electronic Flight Bags. This one deals primarily with operators which require some level of FAA approval (121, 135, 91K, etc), but ultimately says the same thing, and specifically mentions aircraft manuals as a permitted use.
     
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  8. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That's a more important question than many think, especially in these days of significant avionics changes.
     
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  9. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Betcha I can get to the appropriate emergency/troubleshooting checklist in my digital manual before you can get the paper copy out of where you keep it and into your hands.
     
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  10. Pinecone

    Pinecone Pattern Altitude

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    Good point.

    My aircraft POH is normally on the back seat. But all the other ones (avionics and such) are on the hat shelf at the back of the baggage compartment.
     
  11. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I try to have the paper manuals within reach. Passenger seat back pocket if solo. But even then, a PDF you can search in, better yet, bookmarked for important stuff you may need to reach, is going to beat event that.

    Side note: One of the things I just started to do is remove the emergency /abnormal checklists from the POH and put them in a separate internally bookmarked document. I am using shortcuts so it's no more than one or two taps on the home screen to access it.
     
  12. flyingron

    flyingron Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    There's so much paper I'd have to carry, the operating limitations (pamphlet), a half a dozen supplements to the non-existent flight manual, my w&b, info, and the pilot guides to the MFD, GPS, Autopilot, Engine Monitor, etc...

    That's before we get into the information that I actually need to use like the checklists, etc..
     
  13. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Check the Supplements for the avionics and such, and you may find a Limitation like this:
    I doubt that the hat shelf at the back of the baggage compartment complies. ;)
     
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  14. edessa

    edessa Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I you have access to a PDF editor and can add the supplements to the POH as things change over the years I don't see an issue.
    My last job the crew on the CL300 hd digital everything. It was through a Bombardier app on their iPads. Cost was over $10K per year.
     
  15. Pinecone

    Pinecone Pattern Altitude

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    I read immediately available as in the airplane, as in not in the hangar. I will even say it means not in a baggage compartment not accessibly from the cabin, like nose or wing locker storage.

    It gets to the point where we will be carrying more weight in manuals that fuel. The GTN-6550Xi Pilot's Guide is almost 600 pages.
    '
     
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  16. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I read “in the aircraft” (the language used for an AFM) as in the aircraft, and “immediately available to the flight crew” as something different, since it uses different words. Also different from “readily accessible in the aircraft”, as used with respect to pilot certificates.
    Sounds like a good reason to go electronic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
  17. MountainDude

    MountainDude Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    It's for 1976 C182P, which is my model. Is that good enough?
     
  18. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Pattern Altitude

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    I think after 1975 it has to be specific to your airplane.
     
  19. Bell206

    Bell206 Final Approach

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    After March 1979 approved AFM became required and in most cases was S/N specific. Most OEMs combined the POH and AFM into same manual or simply renamed everything AFM.
     
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  20. texasclouds

    texasclouds En-Route

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    POH makes a great chock, also will hold the door open while ditching. Try that with your new fangled iPad…
     
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  21. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Pattern Altitude

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    Thanks for the correction. I wasn't quite sure of the date, and was honestly too lazy to Google.
     
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  22. Pinecone

    Pinecone Pattern Altitude

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    I have a generic POH in PDF.

    I need to find a double sided, auto feed, scanner to scan my actual one.
     
  23. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If there is one that is specific to your N-number and serial number, that's the one that you need to have.

    Some manufacturers had them before they became required.