wickedsprint
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Wickedsprint
Aha! Thought we were talking foreflight.
iPad vs. Nexus 7
- Thread starter Jay Honeck
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Hmm...in the 150 I usual stick it on the side window or the lower corner of the windshield just ahead of the panel. Always works great there.
Jay Honeck
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Interesting results. Even with all the obvious advantages of the Nexus 7, pilots continue to gravitate toward Apple products.
It will be interesting to see if this changes over time. And I wonder if these results are a statement of Apple's dominance -- or Foreflight's?
It's not a perfect parallel, but history does repeat itself. When Garmin first came on the scene, "back in the day", I remember it took a long time for pilots to switch over from King (the "Apple of Aviation") avionics.
There are probably still some guys here who had King panels, and argued (back in the Usenet days) about how great their King stuff was compared to Garmin's -- even though (it seemed to me at the time -- I was a fairly new renter pilot back then) that Garmin's stuff completely eclipsed King's, and at a lower price point.
We all know the results. King faded to insignificance in the face of Garmin's relentless innovation and aggressive pricing. It will be interesting to see if Apple perceives Android tablets as the same kind of threat, or if they, too, will frolic merrily into obscurity.
Marauder
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Jay - thanks to you fine folks I have been a Nexus 7 owner for a whole 24 hours. I still have my iPad and can speak first hand on the differences. Steve Job's mantra was all about the user interface. The day I picked up the iPad, I became a veteran user within minutes. Everything is very intuitive.
On the Nexus, I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate through the screens. I'm sure it will come with time, but the feel is not the same.
What I do find interesting is the difference between the iPad and Nexus version of Garmin Pilot. It's different in a number of subtle ways, but also has some big differences. I have flown with the Nexus and do like how easy it is to read in the plane. I'm beginning to search for the RAM mount for it. I think it is the perfect size for the yoke.
:thumbup:
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TMetzinger
Final Approach
I think that Foreflight is still the "gold standard" for this type of app, and I understand why.
But, software is much easier to improve than hardware, and if the DigCyc folks keep improving Garmin Pilot like they have been, then I think we'll see some changes.
Now, Pilot's available on both platforms, so the platform choice will likely be driven by other needs. If you narrow the population to folks who are buying a tablet JUST for EFB uses, then I think the Nexus would be more attractive than the Apple.
Google or a third party could/should start focusing on "enterprise" style support for the Nexus 7 - Apple's typically been bad at going after that market. I could see the tablets being used for all sorts of industrial/utility work where a laptop isn't really needed (meter reading, census/polling, medical). There are third party companies doing this for the iPad but they're currently small business focusing on geographical niches, I believe.
But, software is much easier to improve than hardware, and if the DigCyc folks keep improving Garmin Pilot like they have been, then I think we'll see some changes.
Now, Pilot's available on both platforms, so the platform choice will likely be driven by other needs. If you narrow the population to folks who are buying a tablet JUST for EFB uses, then I think the Nexus would be more attractive than the Apple.
Google or a third party could/should start focusing on "enterprise" style support for the Nexus 7 - Apple's typically been bad at going after that market. I could see the tablets being used for all sorts of industrial/utility work where a laptop isn't really needed (meter reading, census/polling, medical). There are third party companies doing this for the iPad but they're currently small business focusing on geographical niches, I believe.
wickedsprint
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I just don't trust the Nexus yet. If they are better made in a year and Garmin adds the AFD to their program I'd consider switching.
IOS also has all of my ASA prepware study materials cheaper than paperback. Not sure if they are in android market.
IOS also has all of my ASA prepware study materials cheaper than paperback. Not sure if they are in android market.
I really don't question the hardware reliability. It's wifi works far more reliably than either of my iPads. That's a shortcoming in Apple products.
ASA fully supports the Android platform:
http://www.asa2fly.com/Android-Apps-C418_category.aspx
wickedsprint
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Thats good info, thanks!
Marauder
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Now that I have owned my Nexus for almost 45 hours, I can still safely say it is as reliable as my iPad.
Since I own both and carry both now in the plane, I will be contrast the differences in performance. If the iPad mini was more competitively priced, I probably wouldn't have entertained the Nexus. Oops Apple...As I mentioned in a previous post, there are differences between the Garmin Pilot apps for the Nexus and the iPad. Took me a bit by surprise since I would have expected they included the same functionality in both. My guess is that they have a development team for each platform and use the basic configuration as the starting point but allow deviations from there. In other words, although the GUIs look similar, they are not.
As an example, on the iPad version, you can do a full weather briefing from the flight planning screen. It is not there on the Nexus. You also don't have WX weather maps, traffic or the scratch pad on the Nexus. It will probably come later, but clearly isn't there now. For most of the basic navigation functions, they are similar.
I will keep plugging away on both and see where things end up.
Garmin Pilot is definitely much better on the iPad, but it's moving closer with each release.
They still have a fundamental user interface issue that I hate: You always have to go through their dang Home button and a second menu selection to change modes. I like ForeFlight's direct access to all the core features with one touch, easily moving from Map, to Charts, to Weather, etc. I use that capability all the time.
I just loaded FlyQ EFB and it's sort of a hybrid between the two. There are some compelling features. I will definitely be giving it a serious tryout...not that I need yet another space-eater, not to mention a third set of charts to update!
They still have a fundamental user interface issue that I hate: You always have to go through their dang Home button and a second menu selection to change modes. I like ForeFlight's direct access to all the core features with one touch, easily moving from Map, to Charts, to Weather, etc. I use that capability all the time.
I just loaded FlyQ EFB and it's sort of a hybrid between the two. There are some compelling features. I will definitely be giving it a serious tryout...not that I need yet another space-eater, not to mention a third set of charts to update!
Marauder
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I know what you mean. However, if you have a GTN in the plane, it looks and feel just like the airplane. I have ForeFlight on my iPad as well. I like the routing feature they have. Garmin still is not there with that function.
Jay Honeck
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Interesting. I found my Apple iPad to be infuriating, and the Nexus 7 to be completely intuitive! Funny.
Now I understand that Apple has improved things, and that you no longer have to open your music software to perform simple functions like deleting a file, but that whole iTunes fiasco drove me straight to Android -- and I've never looked back. I sold my used iPad for what I paid for a new Nexus 7, and have been ecstatic ever since.
Now, if only ForeFlight would make a move into the Android market. It's one of the frustrations of aviation -- we are almost a throw-away market for software developers.
murphey
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I've got the spring clamp version also. I took some of the sticky-back insulation I had left over from re-doing the interior of the cherokee, cut it into little strips, and put it on each of the 4 corners of the holder, and put strips on the two short rails. No vibration, nothing, and holds the tablet even better.
So the GTN always goes through a Home button? I thought it had some direct access capability?
murphey
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I think this is an apples/oranges issue (sorry for the pun). There are two considerations - the hardware market and the software/application market. Garmin is the only one that operates in both markets.
King/Garmin is a very small market for a very specific application. The tablet market looks at aviation as a nice niche but even if you remove aviation entirely, the tablet market is still huge and won't even notice if aviation goes away.
Altho Jepp was aviation-only, about 10 years ago (when Boeing bought it), it realized it needed to expand outside aviation, hence the push into marine & rail. Garmin was never in the aviation market until it bought UPSAT/Apollo. Garmin can do without the aviation market, altho Jepp can't.
flyingcheesehead
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That recent poll on what hardware pilots used in the cockpit was... Illuminating. Less than 10% Android and over 60% iOS when I looked, with the balance being mostly Garmin hardware (796, Aera, etc).
Seems like kind of a chicken and egg thing, though. Is iOS so popular because of ForeFlight? In that case, supporting Android might make sense. Or, is iOS just more popular period, in which case all the extra effort to develop for Android would be a waste?
BTW, it's not as easy to support both as you might think. The API's are completely different - You almost have to start over. For a program that's been under development for nearly five years by a team of several dedicated and talented individuals, it's not something that's going to happen fast, and they'd have to either hire another team or let development on the iOS version stagnate for quite a while, neither of which is something you do as a small company absent a really compelling reason - Sometimes when you bet the farm, you buy the farm. Were I in charge of ForeFlight, I probably wouldn't be looking to develop for Android any time soon.
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TangoWhiskey
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Imagine if someone wrote an iOS emulator for Android....
flyingcheesehead
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That'd be pretty huge...
However, even Google hasn't done so. You'd think that would provide them with a major advantage - ALL apps for both platforms would run! But, they'd still be giving Apple a ton of money (for those people who bought the iOS apps), they'd likely get their pants sued off, and it wouldn't be a small undertaking in the first place, not to mention they'd have to keep up with all of the updates that Apple does.
Before Steve Jobs came back to Apple and they were in the planning stages for OS X, there was a concept that came out with different colored boxes representing different supported API's. The existing Mac OS API was coined the "blue box" for example. The new API was going to be the "yellow box", and there was a rumored project called "yellow box for Windows" that would have theoretically allowed applications developed for Mac OS X to run on Windows. From the developer perspective, I thought that'd be GREAT! Too bad it never happened, and now it's easier to run Windoze apps on the Mac than to run Mac apps on Windows.
TMetzinger
Final Approach
This is better with the new split screen functionality. I flew today and had the map on top and underneath switched between SafeTaxi and Charts, and it was easy to make either the top or bottom full screen. Really a big improvement in my opinion.
The pseudo-panel doesn't do much for me, but I'm flying an IFR airplane. If I were in a basic VFR airplane it might be nice.
flhrci
Final Approach
Now that I have owned my Nexus for almost 45 hours, I can still safely say it is as reliable as my iPad.
Are you sure that is enough time? Lol
David
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I tend to think it's more hardware driven.
For the first four development cycles, Ipad was the first and only tablet out there. (remember Foreflight and Pilot started as smartphone apps).
The Android tablet market had a very rocky start (I tried the Xoom and Lenovo pads, and went back to iOS).
So iOS got a head start in installed base (with it being the only game in town for years), that leads to the 60%/10% split.
The Nexus 7 opened up the small pad market, and set a new benchmark for Android pads, and with it being a Nexus reference device, it gives the developers a stable platform to develop to.
I think the advantages of the smaller size, plus the much lower price point, will make it more attractive to users. It being more attractive to users, plus the stable development environment of a reference device, will make it more attractive to developers.
X3 Skier
En-Route
Now that I have owned my Nexus for almost 45 hours, I can still safely say it is as reliable as my iPad.
My experience is exactly the opposite. Two for two dead Nexus, two good iPads.
Cheers
X3 Skier
En-Route
Again, I find Android on phone (no clue on the Nexus since they died before I could really use them
) stupidly complex while Apple intuitive. The only thing I use iTunes for is backup. Nothing else I use/need requires iTunes. Sounds like you were about 5 versions of iTunes behind.
Cheers
You made key points: iPad and Foreflight have a five year headstart. The fact Android has ten percent, mostly in the last several months, says something.
Competition is good.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
OK - gotta ask:
Nexus/Garmin Pilot combination - I've been unable to figure out how to keep the Nexus awake when running the Garmin app. In the iOS manual, it shows a setting to "Allow device to sleep while flying on/off". I can't find a comparable setting in the Android version. I noticed this with the first version I had on it, then installed the update a couple days ago. After the update, I noticed the Nexus would stay awake like I thought it should do. But earlier today I was at the airport, getting a briefing and noticed the thing was back to doing it again. I was hoping to find out if it would stay awake once it started moving, but cold weather, snow flurries, and a dead battery ended up keeping me on the ground. Anyone else seen this behavior before?
Nexus/Garmin Pilot combination - I've been unable to figure out how to keep the Nexus awake when running the Garmin app. In the iOS manual, it shows a setting to "Allow device to sleep while flying on/off". I can't find a comparable setting in the Android version. I noticed this with the first version I had on it, then installed the update a couple days ago. After the update, I noticed the Nexus would stay awake like I thought it should do. But earlier today I was at the airport, getting a briefing and noticed the thing was back to doing it again. I was hoping to find out if it would stay awake once it started moving, but cold weather, snow flurries, and a dead battery ended up keeping me on the ground. Anyone else seen this behavior before?
Marauder
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There is a home button on the GTN. It is a hard button rather than a soft one. If you go down into the sub menus like Flight Planning, like Pilot version, the "Home" key takes you back to the top level.
Here is a picture of the Garmin Pilot at the main level and what the Garmin GTN 650 looks like when you hit the "Home" key.
What my point was that if you are using the Garmin Pilot, many of the same keys exist on the GTN. The GTN has more built into it for obvious reasons.
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I've been looking for them to fix that, too.
Garmin also doesn't honor Android screen brightness settings, so you always need to tweak that in the app. I wish it just followed the Android master setting.
Marauder
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I think when it comes to GUIs, people are wired differently and what makes sense to one person doesn't to another. The Nexus for me doesn't have a flow. Looks like a bunch of different pages or whatever they are (widgets?) intermingled with stuff that looks like pages. I haven't been able to find the camera. I see the camera lense, but can't find an app to use it. On the iPad, there is an app called "Camera". No brainier.
I'm sure I will figure it all out, just will take some time.
Marauder
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I said it tongue in cheek for the poor guy that has had a couple dead ones out of the box. I hope it continues to work! The good news is I can almost buy 2 of them for the price of 1 iPad Mini.
roddie
Pre-takeoff checklist
Goofy decision on their part, considering almost every other Android device has a camera app.
Solution here: http://m.cnet.com/news/how-to-access-the-camera-app-on-your-nexus-7/57474820
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Marauder
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My experience is exactly the opposite. Two for two dead Nexus, two good iPads.
Cheers
You're the guy with the dead ones! Sorry to hear about them. I have been through a whole family of Apple products starting with the original iPod. The problem I have with Apple products is that I am forced to give away older technology because my excuse of "it broke" just doesn't work with them. Even the oldest iPod is a hand me down in the family. I hope the Nexus performs in a similar fashion. Time (more than 45 hours) will tell!
Marauder
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I don't think there is one on this version of Garmin Pilot. You can however drag the right side of the main display down to get to the "settings" for the Nexus itself. You can lengthen the time to 30 minutes before it sleeps. As long as you touch the screen within that time window, it will stay awake (verified this in flight today). This is the best I think you can do with it.
It doesn't have one natively because its not meant to be a camera. It's a net am for videoconferencing ,supported by whatever app you choose for that, i.e. Skype.
I've always thought using a tablet as a camera looked pretty silly...although I've looked silly on a couple of occasions.
Matthew
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Yeah, I saw that. I also saw in the app settings that it had permission to keep the device awake. I read the docs on the iOS version and it says the setting will keep the iOS device awake when the GPS senses movement >40kts. Seems like as simple setting to have in the 'droid version, too, but it looks like it's missing.
Marauder
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The iPad uses the camera for reading UPC and bar codes in addition to the pure camera function. It actually is pretty handy. I use it routinely for reading bar codes for the myfitnesspal app.
roddie
Pre-takeoff checklist
Oh, I know what their reason was, but I still think it's goofy. It's a camera, let me access the damn thing the way I do with every other device.
(Disclaimer: I've had the N7 since launch day, and I've never actually used the camera, heh).
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Marauder
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I wonder if there is a app permission feature on the Nexus like those on iOS?
Matthew
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That's what I'm trying to find. The odd thing is, I'm sure that, right after I put the new version on, I let the thing sit on my desk for about an hour without going to sleep.
Marauder
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I found under the App section in settings there is a statement line talking about not letting the unit to sleep. Just doesn't say if you can control it.
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