iPad causes gear-up Landing According to Pilot

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by NordicDave, Feb 13, 2021.

  1. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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  2. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    Sounds like his iPad was in a bad spot.
     
  3. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    My iPad grew an arm and put my gear back up once. I keep a close watch on it ever since.
     
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  4. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    He was using ForeFlight instead of the GUMPS app?
     
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  5. Daleandee

    Daleandee Cleared for Takeoff

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    That's why I use an iFly 740b ... they stay where you put them!
     
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  6. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Hardly the fault. More like a contributing factor.

    Still, there’s a lesson to be learned from that - consider what any device might be blocking when you consider placement.
     
  7. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

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    This is why I don't advocate for mounting a tablet device. Use it when you need to then safely stow it. I rarely use my ipad in flight other than for brief glances for information or to review approach plates.
     
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  8. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    I would sue Apple, they should have known this was a problem and designed transparent iPads. ;-)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
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  9. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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  10. Joe_B1

    Joe_B1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It's always someone else's fault.
     
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  11. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    VFR I don't care. IFR I want my approach plate where I can see it without putting my head down. Yoke or suction mount for me. Just like I did with paper. So far, 29 years in retracts, 10 years with tablet, being able to see to confirm gear down indications has not been an issue.

    I don't "advocate" for or against it.
     
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  12. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    Same here. I have mine mounted on the yoke. It is an iPad air... so one of the larger ones. It blocks out some of the MP gauge, but a quick peek to the side lets me see it without putting my head down. I used to keep my iPad on a kneeboard style mount, but it was too much looking up/down/back up/backdown to read and brief an approach. I started with this during IR training with the foggles and it was so difficult and irritating I switched to the yoke. Not to mention the spacial D it may have caused in actual IMC if I had stuck with the kneeboard... I guess it's a personal preference, though. Even for VFR, I like it there in front of me with all the info I need at my fingertips without having to dig around for the iPad, turn it on, let it recognize my mug, unlock itself.. etc.

    My question is how in the h e c k is this guy blaming not seeing his gear indicator for a gear-upper?? Or maybe the iPad blocked his brain functions that would have otherwise made him perform 5 or 6 GUMPS checks on the way to the deck... iPad or not - not doing at least one GUMPS check is sort of the pilot's fault.
     
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  13. Initial Fix

    Initial Fix Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I used-to have the iPad mounted on the center column of the bonanza (now on the yoke) but it would obscure that lower middle panel where the gear lights are. But it was easy enough to move my head during my GUMPS checks to confirm gear down.

    When I flew a 172RG I looked outside and at the gear the the light. It’s kind of surprising this pilot didn’t do that Who knows.
     
  14. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    GUMPS fail. GUMPS is religiously important.
     
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  15. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The ipad pulled the gear back up.
     
  16. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    GUMPS -
    Gear
    Undercarriage
    Make sure the gear is down
    Put the gear down, stupid
    Sure that gear is down?

    maybe they could make an iPad app to help people remember
     
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  17. catmandu

    catmandu Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    "What is that god-awful noise blaring at me? I can barely concentrate on my flare."
     
  18. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's the iPad's fault. Just like its the guns fault when someone get redrum.
     
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  19. TrueCourse

    TrueCourse Pre-takeoff checklist

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    that’s an accurate description. Recently watched the M20K baggage door incident again and the horn is blaring until the pilot remembers to put the gear down at the last second. It was probably a mental GUMPS check with a “oh that’s what that noise was”.
     
  20. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I don't have a problem with it. We all have a natural tendency to rationalize our mistakes to some degree. Sometimes is an explanation; other times it's an excuse.

    I can read "I did not see the landing gear position light because my iPad's position blocked my view" both ways. Excuse or a learning takeaway.

    I had something like that happen once. During a lesson, my student took off only to find that my iPad, which I had moved to my lap (so much for yokes causing problems) during his takeoff roll blocked the yoke from moving back into the Vy position. So, factually, the iPad blocked a proper takeoff. Easily corrected but the point is, do you think it the takeaway was "I made a mistake I'll never make again," or "It was the iPad's fault?"
     
  21. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I read the pilot statement, IMO he is not blaming the IPAD. Sounds like he just fell behind and didn't get caught up.
     
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  22. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Probable Cause: The pilot’s failure to extend the landing gear before landing. Contributing to the accident were the pilot’s inability to see the landing gear position light because his iPad was blocking his view of it and his feeling of being rushed during the approach and landing.

    It’s a freakin Cessna fer gawds sake. Ya know, a high wing. What was blockin the window? “...pilot’s failure to extend...” and “feeling of being rushed...” are the only pertinent parts of this. All that IPad bs is, well, bs
     
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  23. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    was there porn playing on the ipad? honestly I think he would have been better off if he just said "hey, listen, I was watching porn on the ipad, whadya gonna do". then the NTSB's probable cause becomes "the porn industry's lack of warning that watching their videos could cause loss of eye sight, hairy palms, or gear up landings"
     
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  24. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    He actually just listed its blocking his view as an extra contributing factor, not a primary cause, but still a good reminder that the more distractions we have in the cockpit, the harder we have to work to make sure we're paying attention to the couple of things that matter.
     
  25. brcase

    brcase Pattern Altitude

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    Flew with a guy and he says here you have the GPS and transferred his portable GPS from the pilot side to the copilot side. During the run up/control checks we found that his clamp interfered with the Heater control knob. Interesting it also only interfered with the heater knob was pulled on.

    Brian
     
  26. brcase

    brcase Pattern Altitude

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    As to the not seeing the Annunciators, while possibly a contributing factor, this is really a checklist issue. I check the gear even in fixed gear 172’s by looking out the window and physically look at at least one wheel. Since I fly both 172’s (1000+ hrs) and some hours in a 172’RG I could see me easily just saying gear and not actually checking thinking it is fixed.

    Brian
     
  27. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That actually makes sense.
     
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  28. Mjg2011

    Mjg2011 Pre-Flight

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    I could not imagine a gear up landing that’s rough. We all get complacent. It’s gotta happen at some point though I guess.
     
  29. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    Why?
     
  30. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Well, it was an 172RG... so it's slow with the gear up or down. Probably means the indicator lights should be bigger!
     
  31. Mjg2011

    Mjg2011 Pre-Flight

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    Although I’ve never had a gear up landing and I’m a pretty low time pilot but from my experience once in a while mistakes will be made an you will learn. Hopefully the mistakes don’t kill anyone but they do happen. I can say that it is the pilots fault in a gear up but I can’t judge because **** happens and I’ve made my fair share of mistakes.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  32. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    How about velcro-ing a periscope to the back of the iPad?
     
  33. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Exactly.
    I was having trouble reconciling ^^^this with "his feeling of being rushed during the approach and landing". If you feel rushed at the approach speeds of a 172 waddayagonnado in anything you might actually take into IMC?
     
  34. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Does a 1.3 hour hand-flown flight, 1.0 of which was in actual, the last 0.8 at night including an ILS with a 500' ceiling count for actually taking a 172 into IMC?
    For me it was the first of a number if them.
     
  35. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    My iPad much as the paper charts before sit on the right seat, if empty, or held by the right seat passenger. I've never even been fond of a plate on the yoke let alone a GPS or ipad.
     
  36. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    An unsecured iPad flying around in turbulence or maneuvering could equally be a causative factor in an accident.

    I recall one where a sudden maneuver to avoid a midair caused an iPad to fly up and crack a canopy. Could also jam or interfere with controls. No accident in that case, but still an expensive and time consuming affair. Highly unlikely on any given flight, but still worth considering. Personally, I’d want it secured somehow.
     
  37. Doug Reid

    Doug Reid Line Up and Wait

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    I have my ipad mounted on the yoke in my Cessna...no problems...mounted on the yoke arm on my Bo...no problems....how about using GUMP before landing ?
    I recall a gear up landing years ago and the tower tried in vain to call the pilot as he landed gear up. After the incident, they asked the pilot why he did not hear the radio calls...he said a horn went off in the cockpit and he could not hear the radio.

    So..does a172 RG have a gear horn ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  38. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    My instructor had a student in once who was flying down final with the gear horn blaring. He suggested that if he were to push the throttle forward a tiny bit the noise would go away and the student did.

    There's at least one youtube video of someone flying down to the runway with the gear horn beeping all through it.
     
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  39. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    The yoke bar in my bonanza blocks my view of the gear lights. I have to make a concerted effort to lean forward to check them. Had a set of repeaters mounted in my scan with my panel upgrade, but I still check both sets. I have my wife trained to verify them as well when she is with me.

    Sometimes you gotta do that pilot ****, mav.
     
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  40. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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