Interesting education. I'm learning that 'off-grid' equates to borderline wacko

Stewartb said:
I used a Trace (now Schneider Electric) for a many years but changed to a Magnum Energy when I changed out by batteries a couple of years ago.
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How is the Magnum working for you? I'm testing out a 7kW 24-120/240 $650 Korean unit on a boat right now to see how it holds up, it has about 9 months in service and still working.:dunno:
 
The Magnum works better than the Trace but that's expected for something that was 12 years newer and has the advantage of better technology. The inverter is cleaner, the loss is lower, the control panel is crazy smart, and the built-in 100A charger works better/faster than the Trace's 120A charger. I'm happy. The only thing that could be better would be if they could make it not hum when inverting but so far as I know they all do it.
 
Stewartb said:
My cabin is off the grid. I have electricity, water, thermostatic heat, television, phone, hot tub, comfort, etc. I learned a long time ago that if I wanted my wife and daughter to go with me to a place where I wanted to go I had to make it a place that they wanted to go to as well. Solar power was one of the best improvements I ever added. I still have a generator but I rarely use it.
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If I were gonna full time there, and if I do ever full time, I'll invest in a decent electric solar system. I can invest $4-500 in a decent gen on CL, and get lots of time out of it for a little gas. I still have the gen as a back up. I've totaled up the cost of a decent solar setup all done by myself and it's well over $3k. The panels have come down a lot in price and are hovering around a buck a watt now which is pretty good ROI. But - all the other stuff including a quality true sine inverter and batts really gets your attention! 3KW inverter for $1600, each batt is $150 or more and they only last 5 years or so, a good MPPT controller, wiring, combiners, breakers, framing, etc.

I can also take the gen with me and use it on the boat, or at the hangar and can't really do that with the solar stuff. Right now it just makes sense for the well pump, and even that is a stretch.
 
NM is an interesting place with several strong factions of people. Each very opinionated and often involved in power struggles. Although seemingly liberal, they can be quite exclusionary and absolute.

Personally if someone wants to live without running water on a dirt floor with walls made from used tires, more power to them. Long walks to the local organic market, bedding down without a shower for days at a time, crapping in a bucket in sub-zero temps, none of it sounds like much of a life to me. Of course being completely baked 90% of the time probably helps considerably.

I just spent the week in Oregon, the contrast was really interesting. Generally liberal views with much less extremism and definately more welcoming.

Wait till you spend more time there, doesn't sound like you've run into the other factions yet.
 
Stewartb said:
The Magnum works better than the Trace but that's expected for something that was 12 years newer and has the advantage of better technology. The inverter is cleaner, the loss is lower, the control panel is crazy smart, and the built-in 100A charger works better/faster than the Trace's 120A charger. I'm happy. The only thing that could be better would be if they could make it not hum when inverting but so far as I know they all do it.
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I've never come across one that doesn't hum.:nonod:
 
Water stuff is crazy out West. How'd the early settlers do it?
 
ClimbnSink said:
Water stuff is crazy out West. How'd the early settlers do it?
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Well, there weren't as many of them and there was no government damming up the rivers and altering the water flow.
 
One merely needs to head to the SW coast of the Big Island to see community after community south of Captain Cook that is off the grid. No power. Phone service is all cell. TV / internet is satellite, water is cistern and sewage is septic or cesspool - yes - cesspools and open discharge of grey water is still allowed given the volcanic rock is not exactly completely permeable to allow percolation of a septic system . . . .
 
Henning said:
I've never come across one that doesn't hum.:nonod:
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We have a 3k system that from March to October is giving up anywhere from 2200-2500kwh - but yep - the inverter does hum slightly and I can her it when the power going into it is above 2kwh.
 
txflyer said:
..... If you want a taste of what it would really be like, read "One Second After."
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I read the book during my first trip to Afg. Ever been to Adghanistan? There's places there that will easily exist after an EMP since all they do is to survive right now.
They survive because they know how to. It's a miserable existence according to me, but it's all they know.

Lots of places on Earth like that, too. I've seen them in Africa, too.
 
TCABM said:
I read the book during my first trip to Afg. Ever been to Adghanistan? There's places there that will easily exist after an EMP since all they do is to survive right now.
They survive because they know how to. It's a miserable existence according to me, but it's all they know.

Lots of places on Earth like that, too. I've seen them in Africa, too.
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Never been to Afghanistan.

Ever been to Cactus TX?

Pretty miserable ... :lol:
 
txflyer said:
Never been to Afghanistan.

Ever been to Cactus TX?

Pretty miserable ... :lol:
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It's paradise on Earth compared to all of Afghanistan. I would happily spend 30 years in Cactus compared to 1 in Kabul or similar.
 
txflyer said:
Never been to Afghanistan.



Ever been to Cactus TX?



Pretty miserable ... :lol:
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Actually, yes. Not far from Sunray.

If you want a better comparison, go down towards Terlingua, then take away anything that isn't made entirely of dirt, s$$t, or some variant there of.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I try to stay away from places where they don't have a dental plan or running water ... ;)

Comparing our spoiled brat society's resilience to a Neanderthal third world nation won't work.

If the trucks stop filling up the grocery stores and drug stores etc..., people will be violating you for a soda pop or a xanax if you have it.
 
Can't understand how someone can say they live "off the grid" and not grow their own food. The only people I know who do it are the Amish. Probably lots of folks in the hinterlands of Alaska.
 
steingar said:
Can't understand how someone can say they live "off the grid" and not grow their own food. The only people I know who do it are the Amish. Probably lots of folks in the hinterlands of Alaska.
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I consider "the grid" to be utilities, not consumerism or a participating member of society.

On another note, why are there websites dedicated to living off the grid? Isn't that sorta like an oxymoron?
 
Off the grid is a description of absence of public utilities. It describes self-sufficiency and self dependency, but most of us use purchased equipment and have petroleum fuel in back-up storage. Off the grid is not an economics statement or political affiliation although some would like to typecast it as such. My cabin has all the comforts of home but isn't close to utilities. Necessity is the mother of invention. We do hunt and fish there, and grow a very productive garden there, but that's because we enjoy those things. I also enjoy an occasional ribeye and Oreo cookies. Eating store groceries doesn't make my cabin any less off the grid.
 
If you type in 'off grid' and do a search on Bing, this is the first entry that shows up:

http://offgridsurvival.com/

Second:

http://www.off-grid.net/

Third:

http://offgridweb.com/

Fourth:

http://www.offgridworld.com/

But, I'm understanding something about the search tool. Because I previously clicked on one of the 'survivalist' links mistakenly, and then clicked through that place a bit, Bing remembered by track and has now 'tailored' my searching so it's more on target. I think the internet stuff I'm getting is a function of how I first started searching. However, my direct interaction with a few folks out there has left me still a bit startled that so many people are so ill-prepared to actually live off-grid. Maybe it'll be different the more I get involved.
 
maybe Bing really knows your deepest desires...
 
Energy independent would be a better way to state it.

When you say off grid, it immediately conjures up images of hermit living or survivalist.

Some people try and call it "self sufficient homesteading."
 
Yabut, it's really not energy independent either, cuz I'm tied to an 800lb propane tank. I think in my case, as with most, it's restricted to not connected to the public electric grid only.

We live in an electric world, and no one including me is willing to go back to pre-electric times. To be self sufficient, would mean that I'm gathering food and making my own clothes, etc. I can't imagine how hard homesteading was in the 1800s. Seems brutal right now. I consider myself a sort of jack of all trades, until I realize quickly that I can't even knit a shirt, if I had gathered the wool and spun it! Something for me to investigate.
 
Stewartb said:
Off the grid is a description of absence of public utilities. It describes self-sufficiency and self dependency, but most of us use purchased equipment and have petroleum fuel in back-up storage. Off the grid is not an economics statement or political affiliation although some would like to typecast it as such. My cabin has all the comforts of home but isn't close to utilities. Necessity is the mother of invention. We do hunt and fish there, and grow a very productive garden there, but that's because we enjoy those things. I also enjoy an occasional ribeye and Oreo cookies. Eating store groceries doesn't make my cabin any less off the grid.
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What's the difference if the imported energy is used to heat your water or bring in your food? You use energy, possibly less than most, but you still do. Sorry, i'm just not seeing it.

Now, being self-sufficient is another story entirely.
 
steingar said:
Can't understand how someone can say they live "off the grid" and not grow their own food. The only people I know who do it are the Amish. Probably lots of folks in the hinterlands of Alaska.
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"Off the grid" means you can't participate in the national electric distribution scheme, no more. Most people I know who live "off grid" minimally have gardens, and many produce food for sale.
 
Yeah and try to get the Grandkids to stay anywhere without Call of Duty online ... :rolleyes:

I grew up farming all my life and we are no where near self sustaining in the strictest sense of the word. You can grow corn, but can you shell it, shake it, grind it, and mix it? Not us. :nonod:

Dad would have a 'hog killing' once in while when I was a kid, and everyone and their dog would show up. It was a combined effort. You start at daylight heating a 55 gallon drum of water leaned over at about a 45 degree angle over wood fire, then shoot and bleed the hog, gut him and shove him head first into the barrel and scald him. Then you scrape him and then start butchering. It was a lot of hard work. And somebody in the crowd needs to be a butcher. One of my Uncle's was a butcher and he was essential to the project.
 
txflyer said:
Yeah and try to get the Grandkids to stay anywhere without Call of Duty online ... :rolleyes:

I grew up farming all my life and we are no where near self sustaining in the strictest sense of the word. You can grow corn, but can you shell it, shake it, grind it, and mix it? Not us. :nonod:

Dad would have a 'hog killing' once in while when I was a kid, and everyone and their dog would show up. It was a combined effort. You start at daylight heating a 55 gallon drum of water leaned over at about a 45 degree angle over wood fire, then shoot and bleed the hog, gut him and shove him head first into the barrel and scald him. Then you scrape him and then start butchering. It was a lot of hard work. And somebody in the crowd needs to be a butcher. One of my Uncle's was a butcher and he was essential to the project.
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Yep, agriculture is a community effort.
 
The last time I went solo moose hunting was 5-6 years ago. Field dressing a moose by yourself is a chore. Packing it is another. I did enlist some help from my wife. There's nothing sexier than a cute 105# girl with a stainless rifle in her hands and a meat pack on her back.
 
To draw a parallel...

I just bought a couple of add'l pistols and Chris and I would like to attend a handgun safety/concealed carry training course and have been cruising around the websites & Facebook pages of the local "schools." I have also called a couple to discuss their training, the dates of their next sessions, etc..

No one yet has been able/willing to just discuss the training. They quickly sidetrack into a discussion of their agenda. Their Facebook pages and websites do the same with all sorts of cute cartoons and slogans.

I don't want to be sold their agenda...I'd just like some training and a piece of paper for my sheriff but I don't think I'm going to be able to accomplish that in my area.

There are wackos on both ends of the spectrum.
 
Being proud of living off grid is silly. First time you need an antibiotic or cavity filled or roll of toilet paper, you are not off grid! This "movement" is a fantasy world on par with Scarborough Fair that concludes with a trip to IHOP. It would be more fun and interesting if people didn't see it as a religion.
 
docmirror said:
Well, I don't know I'm conversant with some pretty out there stuff, but it seems that the off-grid folk have their own special kind of weirdness.

Frex, I like English sports cars and there's a bunch of people who are a bit out there about that as well, but not like the off-grid isolationists.

Here's another thread: I look at the world we live in and see it falling apart left and right. With religious groups are fighting, protests and riots in the streets, on top of global warming and our dependency on fossil fuels it is easy to see that Times are a changin.<i> </i>To protect myself and my future generations I would like to create a self-sustaining fortress that will protect those inside against outsiders while also providing for the necessities of those inside. One that will offer liberty to those inside without hindering creativity or ambitions.

This society would be self sustaining by utilizing the power of the sun using solar panels. Food will be supplied by a large garden to provide fresh fruits and vegetables and chickens and goats to provide meat, milk, and cheese. A deep underground well will provide unlimited fresh water.

When I picture this society, I see it governed by a technocracy which is on governed by a group of people who have certain expertise. A group of 7 elected officials will work to provide for all the needs of those living in the community.

I am a senior in college and have no capital to begin such an undertaking. I am interested in hearing any questions or suggestions you have or if you would like me to elaborate more just email me:
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Sounds like the kid is looking for help to write his Capstone Project. Probably a Sociology major...
 
The idea of not having to be permanently tied to a power grid, water service or sewer service, or property tax assessment is appealing to me. I wouldn't necessarily want to live in a remote encampment in the New Mexico desert but I could totally live the Jim Rockford lifestyle moving my trailer or RV from beach to beach.
 
And not be totally dependent on government to take care of you and your affairs?

Heretic!
 
Heh - surprised to see this thread brought back.

I'm a bit of a wacko in my own right, but just a different kind of wacko than I'm used to.

In defense of the remote desert, this is a bit different than what I knew when I grew up in SoCal surrounded by various deserts. Sure, it's fairly dry, and not a lot of vegetation but it's no where as sterile as SoCal deserts. We have Elk tracks around the place, but I've not seen one yet. Small gray/drab deer are up here, and we have wild horses just to the north of us. I've seen coyotes so there must be some smaller prey out there. Most interesting to me is that we get a smattering of snow regularly in winter. In summer, the almanac says it rarely gets above 85F and of course, it's a dry heat, with a rare thunderstorm.

I am surrounded by +12k peaks, and we get amazing sunsets, and dark, dark nights with incredible star-field. One of the things I'd like to do in the future is set up a decent stabilized telescope for some deeper viewing. As for being independent, surely no one expects that, as I've said I'm not giving up the conveniences of most of civilized living. I am giving up a monthly elec, water, sewer, trash, gas, phone, cable bills. I'll still be tethered by propane once or twice per year depending on how much I buy. But, I do have a wood burning stove/oven should I decide to go real hairy.

Just getting my well pump stuff ready to set up soon. If I could add pictures I would but the management has seen fit to deny me that pleasure for some reason:

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some pretty amazing scenery out here that I'll never tire of.
 
Sac Arrow said:
The idea of not having to be permanently tied to a power grid, water service or sewer service, or property tax assessment is appealing to me. I wouldn't necessarily want to live in a remote encampment in the New Mexico desert but I could totally live the Jim Rockford lifestyle moving my trailer or RV from beach to beach.
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Boats work well too.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Good point. There are some added logistical issues, but I've known people that have made their boat their residence.
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But not nearly as many, I'd bet, as boats that have made their people their residence. ;)
 
timwinters said:
To draw a parallel...

I just bought a couple of add'l pistols and Chris and I would like to attend a handgun safety/concealed carry training course and have been cruising around the websites & Facebook pages of the local "schools." I have also called a couple to discuss their training, the dates of their next sessions, etc..

No one yet has been able/willing to just discuss the training. They quickly sidetrack into a discussion of their agenda. Their Facebook pages and websites do the same with all sorts of cute cartoons and slogans.

I don't want to be sold their agenda...I'd just like some training and a piece of paper for my sheriff but I don't think I'm going to be able to accomplish that in my area.

There are wackos on both ends of the spectrum.
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Stop by the sheriff's office and ask. I'm sure they can recommend a good place.
 
I can see a non-nutcase person wanting to have a place that can provide its own power and/or water but otherwise doesn't want to live like plains Indian or Bedouin nomad.

Years and years ago a high school and college friend got an inheritance, bought a nice parcel of land in the Missouri Ozarks, and decided to live in a teepee with his new wife.

About six months later I got a letter (written on paper!) saying "Living in a teepee was not as glamorous as we thought". :rofl:

PS: I'm still friends with the guy, he built with his own hands a really nice house on his land, and for 30 years has made a good living selling wooden swords and shields at Renaissance Fairs, along with the occasional wooden boat. He gets power from the grid, but has generators and solar these days also.
 
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