Insurance woes

JCranford

JCranford

En-Route
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,598
Location
North TX
Display Name
Display name:
JCranford
so, I've been shopping for a 210 for a bit. I did a pre-buy on one in Idaho which turned out to be a turd. The plane, not Idaho...

I'm working on a second one which is looking really good.

Then I get an insurance quote. One quote at $4000. One quote at $5400!! WTF!?

Now, I know I'm gonna get hammered a bit for low time and lack of retract time, but that's a little ridiculous. I was told by two different agents that the 210 is out of favor with insurance companies at the moment. This could be a deal breaker for me.

Short of flying with no insurance, any suggestions??
 
JCranford said:
so, I've been shopping for a 210 for a bit. I did a pre-buy on one in Idaho which turned out to be a turd. The plane, not Idaho...

I'm working on a second one which is looking really good.

Then I get an insurance quote. One quote at $4000. One quote at $5400!! WTF!?

Now, I know I'm gonna get hammered a bit for low time and lack of retract time, but that's a little ridiculous. I was told by two different agents that the 210 is out of favor with insurance companies at the moment. This could be a deal breaker for me.

Short of flying with no insurance, any suggestions??
Click to expand...
Don't know which broker u r using, but if u r interested I can send u th4 name of my local broker. I don't know if they do insurance for out of state or not, so something that needs to be looked at. But they found me some good deals. Student with zero time in archer I am paying 900 a yr, that less than what I pay for my car

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Was one of these Steve U.?
 
AggieMike88 said:
Was one of these Steve U.?
Click to expand...

Not one of the quotes. Steve simply told me I was screwed and left it at that. He was the one that told me ins co's didn't like 210's right now.

Wannfly, yes, I'll take all the help I can get.
 
Last edited:
With the C-210, the issue is not just your experience (or lack thereof) with high performance or complex aircraft. Much of the underwriting analysis has to do with the airplane's admirable speed and load-carrying capability, and therefore its unfortunate popularity with those who use them in the business of transporting certain chemical substances in a northerly direction. Not always do these entrepreneurs first go through the formality of purchasing the aircraft.

Some years ago I read that one-third of all airplanes stolen in the US were Cessna 210s based in California.
 
Yeah, retract insurance skyrocketed recently. Not a good time to own a retract. :(
Good luck with your hunt. And good luck your insurance.
 
JCranford said:
No, Steve simply told me I was screwed and left it at that. He was one that told me ins co's didn't like 210's right now.

Wannfly, yes, I'll take all the help I can get.
Click to expand...
Pm me your email. I will look you in with them

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
That's straight stupid.

I insure odd ball stuff and odd ball missions often call these guys

https://www.airpowerinsurance.com

BTW, do NOT give anyone the N number till you are finished shopping, just tell them you haven't decided on a exact airframe yet.
 
BigBadLou said:
Yeah, retract insurance skyrocketed recently. Not a good time to own a retract. :(
Good luck with your hunt. And good luck your insurance.
Click to expand...

My Mooney that is owned in a 4 way partnership went down $100 to $1300 last month, we even upped hull value.
 
James331 said:
That's straight stupid.

I insure odd ball stuff and odd ball missions often call these guys

https://www.airpowerinsurance.com

BTW, do NOT give anyone the N number till you are finished shopping, just tell them you haven't decided on a exact airframe yet.
Click to expand...
Why Not? They need the N number for a accurate quote, else the estimate will be generic

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
WannFly said:
Why Not? They need the N number for a accurate quote, else the estimate will be generic

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No they don't.

Type and time only
 
Same thing when I bought my 182RG 5 years ago. $5k. Second year $3,600, third $3,200 etc.. Experience helps. You could also barter with them and say you'll agree to x number of hours dual and maybe even an additional y solo before carrying passengers. Or getting an instrument rating, your commercial etc.
 
Marky_24 said:
My Mooney that is owned in a 4 way partnership went down $100 to $1300 last month, we even upped hull value.
Click to expand...
I just bought a '63 C model. I have 82 hours TT. 4 in retracts. $1700 year, ground and motion. $0 deductible. 1,000,000/100k liability. $51k hull.

They only require 5 hours dual and 5 hours solo prior to carrying passengers.
 
ragedracer1977 said:
I just bought a '63 C model. I have 82 hours TT. 4 in retracts. $1700 year, ground and motion. $0 deductible. 1,000,000/100k liability. $51k hull.

They only require 5 hours dual and 5 hours solo prior to carrying passengers.
Click to expand...

Wow, who was THAT with??
 
Z06_Mir said:
Same thing when I bought my 182RG 5 years ago. $5k. Second year $3,600, third $3,200 etc.. Experience helps. You could also barter with them and say you'll agree to x number of hours dual and maybe even an additional y solo before carrying passengers. Or getting an instrument rating, your commercial etc.
Click to expand...

I paid about that my first year for my IFR 185 Amphibian..
 
What kind of hull value? That'll have a decent impact on premiums.
 
James331 said:
No they don't.

Type and time only
Click to expand...
Well everyone I asked for a quote when I was looking they asked for a N number or the other option was to get a generic quote, the difference was about $300

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Try these guys, https://www.aircraftandmarine.com/ Its who I use, now granted I don't have a complex or a retrac but Ive heard good things about them from people getting first time retrac quotes.

When I was looking for mooney a few years back my quotes were consistent with what you are getting. So I dumbed it down to a fixed gear and all is good.
 
WannFly said:
Well everyone I asked for a quote when I was looking they asked for a N number or the other option was to get a generic quote, the difference was about $300

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Call diffrent people, you're getting sold, do a search on here about giving your N number for insurance while shopping prices.
 
simtech said:
Try these guys, https://www.aircraftandmarine.com/ Its who I use, now granted I don't have a complex or a retrac but Ive heard good things about them from people getting first time retrac quotes.
Click to expand...
Yep. Norris Hibbler and his wife run the company. Norris was a hangar neighbor of mine in Vancouver WA. He's a LONG time GA supporter in that community. He was my broker when I had my Cheetah and Bonanza. Good guy, good service.
 
James331 said:
Call diffrent people, you're getting sold, do a search on here about giving your N number for insurance while shopping prices.
Click to expand...
I compared 5, these guys were the cheapest and I believe I have pretty decent coverage

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
My first year with a 182RG was barely over $1,000. I only had a couple hours in type and 225 or so TT. Just needed a signoff from someone with 150 RG time, 10 MM, and 750 TT. I just renewed for the same price with over 100 hours in the 182RG in the last year.

My first few quotes were for fixed gear 182s and were all closer to $2,000. When I found the RG, the first agent quoted the plane based on the correct N number but wrong model. The second agent went through a few hoops to be able to quote that N number again for me, but worth it since he noticed the problem and got me a much better deal on the insurance.
 
They are only a hand full of underwriters that do aviation. Even less that will quote low time private pilots in high performance complex aircraft. They request N numbers for the express purpose to prevent shopping brokers. Once an underwriter has the N number he will quote the same price to each broker that requests a quote on that aircraft. The independent broker can adjust their profit requirements which can make a small difference from broker to broker. So you can, not give a make and model, but, this generally will get you a higher "generic quote" as mentioned. You will find that aviation insurance, especially on low time pilots, is difficult to shop since only one or two underwriters may be doing the quoting to all of the brokers.
 
JCranford said:
so, I've been shopping for a 210 for a bit. I did a pre-buy on one in Idaho which turned out to be a turd. The plane, not Idaho...

I'm working on a second one which is looking really good.

Then I get an insurance quote. One quote at $4000. One quote at $5400!! WTF!?

Now, I know I'm gonna get hammered a bit for low time and lack of retract time, but that's a little ridiculous. I was told by two different agents that the 210 is out of favor with insurance companies at the moment. This could be a deal breaker for me.

Short of flying with no insurance, any suggestions??
Click to expand...


You are complaing about $4,000 and you are low time and no retract time? You are lucky any carrier will even look at you, you are high risk on a 210.

The only one being ridiculous on this is YOU,

You do not say what hull value you are being quoted or the liability limits, deductible, or where you will be basing the airplane, grass or pavement, do you have an instrument rating or not?, how may hours is low time?, you have no clue about what you are doing by your ridiculous wtf statemements,

I am in the insurance business, and have owned 3 210's if you want help, tell all the facts first before you complain, for all we know your ticket may still have wet ink. and the hull value is really high, which drives the premium, get your act together before you whine to all of us.
 
strangebird said:
You are complaing about $4,000 and you are low time and no retract time? You are lucky any carrier will even look at you, you are high risk on a 210.

The only one being ridiculous on this is YOU,

You do not say what hull value you are being quoted or the liability limits, deductible, or where you will be basing the airplane, grass or pavement, do you have an instrument rating or not?, how may hours is low time?, you have no clue about what you are doing by your ridiculous wtf statemements,

I am in the insurance business, and have owned 3 210's if you want help, tell all the facts first before you complain, for all we know your ticket may still have wet ink. and the hull value is really high, which drives the premium, get your act together before you whine to all of us.
Click to expand...
Not very helpful... anyway just wanted to point out that by definition if someone whining or complaining, he does not have to get his act together. That said, there is no reason to yell at someone who is asking a question. You don't actually have to answer at all. It's a choice.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
strangebird said:
You are complaing about $4,000 and you are low time and no retract time? You are lucky any carrier will even look at you, you are high risk on a 210.

The only one being ridiculous on this is YOU,

You do not say what hull value you are being quoted or the liability limits, deductible, or where you will be basing the airplane, grass or pavement, do you have an instrument rating or not?, how may hours is low time?, you have no clue about what you are doing by your ridiculous wtf statemements,

I am in the insurance business, and have owned 3 210's if you want help, tell all the facts first before you complain, for all we know your ticket may still have wet ink. and the hull value is really high, which drives the premium, get your act together before you whine to all of us.
Click to expand...

Wow, youre kinda a D!ck!
 
I kinda liked vikings until I got the $5k insurance quotes.
Now I kinda like Grummans. $400-$500 for insurance feels better.
 
strangebird said:
You are complaing about $4,000 and you are low time and no retract time? You are lucky any carrier will even look at you, you are high risk on a 210.

The only one being ridiculous on this is YOU,

You do not say what hull value you are being quoted or the liability limits, deductible, or where you will be basing the airplane, grass or pavement, do you have an instrument rating or not?, how may hours is low time?, you have no clue about what you are doing by your ridiculous wtf statemements,

I am in the insurance business, and have owned 3 210's if you want help, tell all the facts first before you complain, for all we know your ticket may still have wet ink. and the hull value is really high, which drives the premium, get your act together before you whine to all of us.
Click to expand...

Wow.

I think @JCranford was taken aback by the quotes he was getting. He has been pretty active on this board for at least a few years so I don't think his ink is "wet." The guy wants a plane for him and his family, and the quotes he is getting are way more than he budgeted. I don't know how that would yield a personal attack??

...Nice to see you doing your part to continue the good community atmosphere here.
 
Ravioli said:
At least @strangebird didn't include his business contact information in that post :) That would have been, er, strange?
Click to expand...

Haaaa, yeah. His customer service skills would have been called into question.

I just received an Avemco quote at $6900!!! And the hits just keep on coming.

And Strangebird, in the interest of full disclosure, I have 72 hrs TT, PPL, no retract, complex, HP. One Meeeelion dollars hull value. Will be tied down outside on grass. No deductible. $1,000,000 liability, etc...

Or not. :D
 
@JCranford ---

1) how far are you time wise from being able to transition into 149G? (for the others, it's the Bonanza in our club)

2) If you transitioned and then over the next 12 months put 40-50 hours in your book flying that aircraft, how does that change the quotes?

_______________________________________

But also, if you think of the math of the matter, 40 hours to gain the complex gear endorsement and then some proficiency in 149G is gonna be $5,200.00 in rental cost, and you still don't yet have your own C210.

So..... yeah, the high insurance cost stings, but if you can factor that into your first year's operating budget while you get as much experience as you can... Then year 2 shop the heck out of insurance and hope to drop it in half. Then year 3, shop it again for the best deal possible now that you have many hours.

_____________________________________

Another question: Is there a Cessna 210 equivalent to the Bonanza Pilot Proficiency Program or the one that Cirrus provides? Is this program something the insurance business would acknowledge by providing you a preferred rate because you successfully completed the program?
 
JCranford said:
Wow, youre kinda a D!ck!
Click to expand...

True, but he's not totally wrong. There isn't really enough information to know whether $4k is high, reasonable, or a steal. If you're a 100hr PPL with no instrument ticket, trying to insure a $200k hull, well...
 
bradg33 said:
True, but he's not totally wrong. There isn't really enough information to know whether $4k is high, reasonable, or a steal. If you're a 100hr PPL with no instrument ticket, trying to insure a $200k hull, well...
Click to expand...

Exactly. The prices on 210s run from $30k on the 1960 model and around $300k for a 1980s 210R. The lower the price the more likely a gear-up landing will be a total loss.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top