Insurance Claim Process

Chrisgoesflying

Chrisgoesflying

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The Lone Star State
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Chrisgoesflying
We had bad thunderstorms in Texas, including a tornado that touched down on the runway at the airport I'm at. I'm in an open T-Hangar. No damage to the t-hangar but my not so smart hangar neighbor can't tie his stupid Cessna 150 down properly. My plane was anchored to the ground, didn't move an inch. His Cessna literally flew into mine because he doesn't choke his plane and ties it down way too loose. So, his tail hit my aileron and possibly more - it's dark so I'll see the full damage tomorrow. Where do I go from here? Do I sue him? Do I tell the insurance? Airport? Never met this guy but he's been ****ing me off for months by how he parks and "ties down" his damn airplane. Others on the field apparently told him several times to tie it down properly.
 
Wow, so sorry to hear that. Whatever happens, I hope it’s quick and easy and you get airborne soon.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Wow, so sorry to hear that. Whatever happens, I hope it’s quick and easy and you get airborne soon.
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Based on what I've seen so far it's certainly not gonna be quick. It's dark so I can't see the full extend of damage but the left aileron is shot. Not sure if there is any further damage to arms and pulleys and what not inside. I had my ailerons locked with the seatbelt and his plane jammed into the aileron that was in the down position and not gently. Still hoping for "easy" at least and the insurance takes care of things as they're supposed to.
 
gacoon said:
Call your insurance and follow their instructions
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Do this.

I’ve made a claim with my insurance company before and it was a very smooth process. Call your agent and they’ll guide you through it. I don’t know, but I assume they will go after the other guys insurance company if there’s any legal way to hold him liable.
 
Oh man, so sorry to hear this. Right after the bird thing, too.

Definitely do what you can to prevent further damage. The airport might be able to help remove his plane. Other than that, your insurance agent will be your best resource. That's what you're paying them for.

Here's hoping the damage is minimal :(
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
We had bad thunderstorms in Texas, including a tornado that touched down on the runway at the airport I'm at. I'm in an open T-Hangar. No damage to the t-hangar but my not so smart hangar neighbor can't tie his stupid Cessna 150 down properly. My plane was anchored to the ground, didn't move an inch. His Cessna literally flew into mine because he doesn't choke his plane and ties it down way too loose. So, his tail hit my aileron and possibly more - it's dark so I'll see the full damage tomorrow. Where do I go from here? Do I sue him? Do I tell the insurance? Airport? Never met this guy but he's been ****ing me off for months by how he parks and "ties down" his damn airplane. Others on the field apparently told him several times to tie it down properly.
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Sounds like you want to choke him!
 
Jim K said:
Oh man, so sorry to hear this. Right after the bird thing, too.

Definitely do what you can to prevent further damage. The airport might be able to help remove his plane. Other than that, your insurance agent will be your best resource. That's what you're paying them for.

Here's hoping the damage is minimal :(
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Yeah, I just met with the mechanic for lunch this past weekend. He was able to work out the dent entirely. We went through the logbooks to discuss the conformity inspection for the import and he couldn’t see anything that would be an issue so plan was to get it all done after our Colorado trip in two weeks (which is obviously cancelled - I ain’t driving).

FORANE said:
Sounds like you want to choke him!
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Nope but i do hope my insurance is gonna sue him for his stupidity.
 
@Mtns2Skies, white courtesy phone...

Are you sure you want to be in the "have you filed a claim" penalty box for the next five years?

If you are, yes, call your insurance company. It is their job to walk you through this and they will make it easy.
 
GeorgeC said:
@Mtns2Skies, white courtesy phone...

Are you sure you want to be in the "have you filed a claim" penalty box for the next five years?

If you are, yes, call your insurance company. It is their job to walk you through this and they will make it easy.
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What other options are there? Preliminarily estimates are $10,000 in damages IF nothing is broken internally. I guess I could sue the Cessna owner myself but that would probably drag out in court for months.
 
MauleSkinner said:
If you’ve got hull insurance, that’s what it’s for. They make your airplane right, and probably subrogate against the Cessna owner and/or his insurance.
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That's what they just told me over the phone and they absolutely should. My mechanic told me that he told that Cessna owner on multiple occasions that his plane is not tied down properly. If he's that careless on the ground, I wonder how he's in the air.
 
Your agent might have some ideas. Unless you're with a direct sales model company like Avemco, they work for you, not the insurer. Possible they might advise you to file a claim with the high-wing owner's insurance. Of course, they will be even more motivated to screw you than your insurer.

@masloki got hit on a ramp a couple years ago..not to this level of damage, but still a few thousand. I thought I remembered him dealing with the other guy's insurance, but I could be mistaken. Both he and mtn2skies had threads here about their experiences.
 
Contact insurance and let them subrogate, but that likelihood is slim…otherwise it is really a poor business decision…the cost involved and the likelihood of success are iffy at best. What is considered proper in the aviation community is probably not the same among a jury of our peers. “I had the brakes on” sounds like a simple defense and it happened during a severe weather event…even if you’re right it’s practically your only option. Unless, you have unlimited funds and want to teach someone a lesson for loose tie downs.
 
GeorgeC said:
@Mtns2Skies, white courtesy phone...

Are you sure you want to be in the "have you filed a claim" penalty box for the next five years?

If you are, yes, call your insurance company. It is their job to walk you through this and they will make it easy.
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I have two nature losses in my history, never been a problem with the insurance company.they handle it just like a not at fault auto claim.
 
unsafervguy said:
I have two nature losses in my history, never been a problem with the insurance company.they handle it just like a not at fault auto claim.
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That wasn't my experience. A tornado in 2020 wiped out most of June C Tune airport in Nashville. Our Wheeler Express was in an enclosed T hangar which ended up a few hundreds yards away in a pile of steel and other airplanes.

When I went to get quotes on our current plane a few months later, we received some 'go away' quotes from some of the major carriers (e.g. > $5k/year on an M20C). We ended up going with Avemco who was the only insurer to basically handle it like a not-at-fault claim auto claim.
 
CessnaJack said:
I was trying to find info on a insurance company and stumbled on this,

DONT DO THAT

I have had this type of thing happen to my plane once, as well as a car over the years.

THIS IS NOT A ISSUE FOR YOUR INSURANCE, unless the other guy doesn’t have insurance/money to make it right.


1) Call the local police and have them come out and make a report, take tons of photos.

2) Have the cops get the insurance info from the other guy, show the cops how to look up the owner info, also provide the airport/FBOs contact, people tend to give cops insurance when “asked”

3) Call THEIR insurance and put the claim through them, armed with a police report and photos send some estimates and they can cut a check.


My insurance company only comes into play if the issue was on ME.

This is Mr I Can’t Tie a Knots claim, not yours, nothing your insurance company needs to even hear about.

Photos plus a police report and estimates and you’ll be fine
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Except that the other person's insurance company works FOR THEM. NOT YOU.

If you claim through your insurance, they fix your plane or car properly and then go after the other person or their insurance.

BT, DT, I now always claim on my insurance.

There are At Fault and Not At Fault claims. Not At Fault is not a blot on your record.
 
Pinecone said:
There are At Fault and Not At Fault claims. Not At Fault is not a blot on your record.
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Not necessarily. It depends who the insurance provider is. Some say that any claim regardless of fault still counts against you. If your insurance company says this, drop them and find someone better. Remember, insurance is not in the business of having to pay out.
 
Not airplane, but have this happen to my wife on a car. Lady parks by my wife's car and scrapes the entire side of it. Never left a note. However, there were cameras and we called the police, which filed a report and ran the license plate.
Next day, the police gaves us the driver's contact number and their insurance.
Being nice, I called the person to give a heads-up that I was filing a claim. Initially, the person said "nothing happened", then went to "ok, I'll pay for the few scratches". When I said, the entire side will need to be repainted, they were surprised and started questioning me.
My response was: "I can send you the video the police sent me. That video is also going to the insurance company". When I called the insurance company and said "there's a police report, video and police says your driver is at fault, their answer was: drop it off at xyz and get a quote, we'll pay for it".

So, always get a police report if possible.
 
CessnaJack said:
I have had this type of thing happen to my plane once, as well as a car over the years.

THIS IS NOT A ISSUE FOR YOUR INSURANCE, unless the other guy doesn’t have insurance/money to make it right.
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Did you happen to have the same insurance company? That would be the only reason they would talk to you as you don't have a policy with them. Or, I guess if the other guy had called in and they had your name, then because he already called in they might... but would REALLY be surprised.

Process is to call your insurance company if you're going to use insurance. They'll then go after the other company to get reimbursed.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Where do I go from here? Do I sue him? Do I tell the insurance?
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Two choices, if you don't want to use insurance you find out if he's willing to pay the estimate plus 10-20% for whatever else they find UP FRONT. Down side is they really find something, you may not be able to go back after him and insurance may not pay since work has been done to the plane before the inspector saw it.

Other, probably simpler, option is to just call your insurance company. They'll go after him or his insurance co. once they paid you.
 
CessnaJack said:
Yeah, they will pay it with photos, police report and a estimate.

10k or so vs legal issues and probably paying more, they’ll cut a check

And if you think not a fault marketing will keep your rates from going up, via one excuse clause or another, if your insurance has to pay, I have a bridge to sell you

Smart move is to only involve your insurance as a last resort
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Hey, its your money, not mine. You feel free to spend it how you want and do whatever you like with whatever you get for it, all with my blessing.

If it were MY money, and I paid an insurer to recover damage to MY hull, I would want the benefit of premium I paid. It strikes me as a complete waste of money to buy a product that I am determined to never use.

If you have hull insurance and consider it only for use in case of a total loss, that's your choice. If you're motivated to do so out of fear of financial repercussions that outweigh the value to be recovered in a "less than total" loss should you need to file a claim, I'd encourage you to get the best available information on the truth of that, and whether they can be avoided by insuring with another carrier; but again, its a choice you're free to make.

Whether the insurer decides if its economically viable to attempt to recover anything from Mr. loose ropes Cessna (called subrogation) is a business decision for them to make.

Fly safe,
-DJT
 
M

Thread 'The worst people in aviation...'

I just got done dealing with them all... Every last one of the *******s in aviation ended up on my doorstep. This past April a dingus in the hangar behind me left his door open and unattended during a windy evening and it blew out the shared wall onto my plane. The damage could have been a LOT worse but the people I dealt with all were.

The guy behind me, who I'm currently choosing to leave his name and address out of this for I'm not sure what reason exactly, left his hangar unattended in a windstorm, with a motorcycle laying on the plane and did not report it to anyone for 36 hours. The...
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Read the above thread.

I would recommend skipping insurance and suing the other plane owner directly based on my past experience. I paid probably 10k in additional premiums over the last 5 years, on a claim that was due to negligence of another person. My insurance company decided that it wasn't worth enough money to subrogate, so they didn't and pinned the claim on me. Insurance companies are evil.
 
I get all of you who say go after that Cessna owner. My worry is, it'll take ages going that route. I don't have his phone number - just a name and address. In the past 6 months at the airport, I saw him once. If I do finally get to him, I doubt he'll write a check voluntarily. If he has insurance, they may, or may not work with me (e.g. "Sorry, act of God. We think his plane was tied down sufficiently - sue us"). If he doesn't have insurance (it doesn't seem to be required - I just looked at my lease agreement and it only states that you're responsible for damage you cause but doesn't say you must have insurance) then I'll have to drag him to court which will take months at best. At the end, I may be stuck with legal fees, repair bill and a grounded plane for several months. If I let the insurance handle it, I will hopefully be back in the air by the end of the month without spending hours being ****ed about the situation. Maybe I get reminded of it when it's time to renew the insurance but maybe not - who knows at that point.
 
CessnaJack said:
Get the police report and it’s a done deal, for a 10k or so claim there is a zero chance his insurance company is going to try to dispute a police officer, plus photos, they’ll pay out
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my car insurance company is dealing with a claim that the other party refuses to pay out (I was sideswiped by a semi.) my insurer paid the claim, and they are the ones finding/paying attorneys, etc., and in the meantime my car has been fixed for the cost of the deductible.

My airplane was wrecked in a storm. My insurance paid out, and I got my airplane fixed for little more than the deductible, and I didn’t have to find or pay attorneys to go after the municipality.

Neither resulted in an increase in premium.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I get all of you who say go after that Cessna owner. My worry is, it'll take ages going that route. I don't have his phone number - just a name and address. In the past 6 months at the airport, I saw him once. If I do finally get to him, I doubt he'll write a check voluntarily. If he has insurance, they may, or may not work with me (e.g. "Sorry, act of God. We think his plane was tied down sufficiently - sue us"). If he doesn't have insurance (it doesn't seem to be required - I just looked at my lease agreement and it only states that you're responsible for damage you cause but doesn't say you must have insurance) then I'll have to drag him to court which will take months at best. At the end, I may be stuck with legal fees, repair bill and a grounded plane for several months. If I let the insurance handle it, I will hopefully be back in the air by the end of the month without spending hours being ****ed about the situation. Maybe I get reminded of it when it's time to renew the insurance but maybe not - who knows at that point.
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You gotta shed that last bit of Canadian in you. Don't be "soorry"for going after the guy.
 
In typical fashion of today's world you would sue, him (he did it), his insurance company (they cover him), the maker of his aircraft (if they had not made it this would not have happened), the airport for negligence (they knew about his improper tie downs), the folks selling him fuel (they encouraged him staying there), and whomever gave him the gate code to have access (they allowed this person into the area), etc. I'm certain there are others so just make a list and check it twice ... :biggrin:
 
Daleandee said:
In typical fashion of today's world you would sue, him (he did it), his insurance company (they cover him), the maker of his aircraft (if they had not made it this would not have happened), the airport for negligence (they knew about his improper tie downs), the folks selling him fuel (they encouraged him staying there), and whomever gave him the gate code to have access (they allowed this person into the area), etc. I'm certain there are others so just make a list and check it twice ... :biggrin:
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And that's why I don't want to deal with it lol.
 
One thing to keep in mind: insurers buy A LOT of legal services. They buy at wholesale and in bulk, like Costco and Walmart (BJ's) combined. They buy heaps of defense because they are obligated to provide a legal defense for their insureds. They buy heaps of offense to recover from contributing parties through subrogation for claims that they are on the hook to pay out in first position. I sincerely doubt you will find an attorney who will service your case cheaper than if they were hired by an insurance company. Is cheaper always better? No. And going to M2S' experience, in a case like his (or Chris'), the insured is not the client (they may technically be, because they are a party), the insurer is.
 
On a lighter note, I came back to my car and found a note under the wiper.

"I saw a car drive into the space next to you, and hit the side of your car. The young driver got out, his mother slid over, and backed out. The kid ran around, entered the passenger seat, and they departed. The license number is xxxxx, the car is a green Oldsmobile. the kid has red brown hair, his mother has red hair.

My name is yyyyyyy and phone number is zzzzz. I will appear in court if needed.


I called, they had been similarly hit, and found a note which said "The witnesses think I am leaving my information. Tough luck.


I gave the information to my insurance man. The repairs were done. My insurance man called to see if I was happy with the repairs, and was pleased that I was.

I asked it the other drivers insurance had paid off, "Not exactly, they had insurance with us, so we paid. They will have trouble finding a new company, we cancelled them for failing to report the accident, and allowing an unlicensed driver to drive the car. We have posted their hit and run history".

Sometimes the rate hit is to the other persons rates.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
At the end, I may be stuck with legal fees, repair bill and a grounded plane for several months.
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Why would your plane be grounded? If you handle it yourself you get it repaired much, much faster than if insurance repairs it. You have to wait on an adjuster, get several quotes, be forced to go to a ****ty shop that will underbid the work and screw you, then have to fight insurance to get it fixed somewhere reputably. If you just fix it out of pocket, then sue the other plane owner for how much it costs, you will be airborne, MUCH faster than if you go through insurance.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Why would your plane be grounded? If you handle it yourself you get it repaired much, much faster than if insurance repairs it. You have to wait on an adjuster, get several quotes, be forced to go to a ****ty shop that will underbid the work and screw you, then have to fight insurance to get it fixed somewhere reputably. If you just fix it out of pocket, then sue the other plane owner for how much it costs, you will be airborne, MUCH faster than if you go through insurance.
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Depends. My insurance agent said adjuster will take care of it within 24 hours - if not, I should call her and she'll make sure it gets done. From my understanding, I can use my regular mechanic for repairs. In fact, he's the only one on the field anyways and the plane can't be flown right now. If I end up paying out of pocket, sue the guy and end up not winning (as mentioned before, most non-aviation folks wouldn't necessarily understand aviation related incidents), I'm stuck with repair cost + legal cost and can't go back to my insurance asking them to handle because plane was repaired without their adjuster involved. Also, even if all goes well - right now it looks like damage is about $10k which I guess would be fine, but if my mechanic comes back with a higher estimate due to internal damage, I honestly don't want to put that much at risk, especially mere weeks after having written a big fat check to do the gear AD, Aussie horn, a bunch of other smaller ADs AND fix a bird strike.
 
geezer said:
On a lighter note, I came back to my car and found a note under the wiper.

"I saw a car drive into the space next to you, and hit the side of your car. The young driver got out, his mother slid over, and backed out. The kid ran around, entered the passenger seat, and they departed. The license number is xxxxx, the car is a green Oldsmobile. the kid has red brown hair, his mother has red hair.

My name is yyyyyyy and phone number is zzzzz. I will appear in court if needed.


I called, they had been similarly hit, and found a note which said "The witnesses think I am leaving my information. Tough luck.


I gave the information to my insurance man. The repairs were done. My insurance man called to see if I was happy with the repairs, and was pleased that I was.

I asked it the other drivers insurance had paid off, "Not exactly, they had insurance with us, so we paid. They will have trouble finding a new company, we cancelled them for failing to report the accident, and allowing an unlicensed driver to drive the car. We have posted their hit and run history".

Sometimes the rate hit is to the other persons rates.
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I was once parked at a restaurant. Car that was parked next to me put a scratch and dent into my car. The owner left a note on my car, apologizing (no, this wasn't in Canada, it was in Texas lol), giving me their contact details and saying they'll pay for the damage. They just asked to let them know how much the repair would be before involving their insurance. Super nice of them because honestly, it was dark, I probably wouldn't have noticed it (passenger side) until the next day. I worked with them, shopped around to get it fixed as cheap as possible. There are good folks out here. I'd even say most are. Unfortunately, those who aren't are the ones making the most noise and are the ones we tend to remember.
 
TRUE!

My airport will not lease you a tie down until you provide them with a copy of your liability policy.

Go to the AP manager, ask for his policy information, and contact them. They either work with you, or not. That is when you decide if you want to have your insurance in the middle.

I have gone both ways, with good results both ways.

Good luck.
 
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