Insurance 2nd year in a complex aircraft

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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There may be those out there wondering.
I certainly asked my insurance agent "Will it be cheaper if... Next year"

My insurance for year one after meeting the minimum insurance requirements for the Comanche 250 at a hull value of 70k, was $3,500

I flew 152 hours this year and increased the hull value to 80k
Year two premium is $2,300

A far cry from the $600 per year I was paying for the Grumman but a $1,200 decrease from first getting into a complex aircraft is a bit of relief.

Also I have 1001 hours and an instrument rating.
I had the instrument rating year one as well so I can't answer how that would have changed the premium.

So if you are wondering if that scary ass premium you pay the first year of climbing into a HP, complex, xyz, different plane will stay that way, my experience says no.

Worth noting, this is during a time when premiums are sky rocketing.
Hope this helps someone.
 
Instrument saved me nothing on my complex with 500 hours in type. But then again everyone else complained of rate hikes, and mine was flat, so maybe it did something?
 
Salty said:
Instrument saved me nothing on my complex with 500 hours in type. But then again everyone else complained of rate hikes, and mine was flat, so maybe it did something?
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I was always told it would cut my rate in half. It didn't impact my rate in the Grumman or Cirrus at all.
 
I bet that's a very challenging plane for you to fly....o_O
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
I was always told it would cut my rate in half. It didn't impact my rate in the Grumman or Cirrus at all.
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Certainly not my experience. At best, maybe it staved off a $500 increase.
 
I'm year 3 into complex insurance for my bonanza. I started with no complex time and hull value of $75k for a year one premium of $2200. Year two I upped hull to $85k and stayed at $2200. Year 3 I upped it to $100k hull and premium is $2250. Which reminds me I need to send that check off. I can confirm getting my comm didn't help anything. And yeah on my cherokee I was paying $480 a year so the shock was nasty. Haha
 
I hate to say it, you didn't really get a 'savings' the second year, you got completely ripped off the first year. the highest I've paid for the bonooney is 18 hunj. but glad to see you have some extra h00ker N bl0w money now.

oh wait, I guess technically you didn't have your complex until the comanche?
 
Wow, seems like GA aircraft get better rates than LSA. My LSA insurance this year was $2,194... that was the best rate after shopping around. Almost makes me think about going PP and moving up to a complex aircraft since rates are about the same...
 
I partnered in a Mooney in 2020. Both of us had to get our complex checkout after buying it. Based on the discussions I've had with insurance folks, once we both hit 100 in type we will get a drop and there may be additional drops at certain hourly thresholds in type (200, 250, 500, etc.). I think we did get a tiny discount once I got my instrument last fall since my partner already had his, but whatever discount we got wasn't very noticeable. In year two our premium is a bit over $2k with $55k hull (which is a bit low on hull value given the current market) with my partner still not having hit 100 in type. Next year we're bumping the hull coverage, though.

Also, FYI, even if the reason you had to file an insurance claim was due to an act of God (e.g. tornado) many underwriters still consider that claim against you when shopping for insurance. Avemco was about the only one that didn't.
 
eman1200 said:
I hate to say it, you didn't really get a 'savings' the second year, you got completely ripped off the first year. the highest I've paid for the bonooney is 18 hunj. but glad to see you have some extra h00ker N bl0w money now.

oh wait, I guess technically you didn't have your complex until the comanche?
Click to expand...

They still make Mooneys. Cheaper to repair when you gear it up because they have a lot of parts.
Comanche insurance is high. Parts come from dudes in their garage with a 3D printer and a lathe.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
They still make Mooneys. Cheaper to repair when you gear it up because they have a lot of parts.
Comanche insurance is high. Parts come from dudes in their garage with a 3D printer and a lathe.
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Who's making Mooneys?
 
steingar said:
Factory does make parts. Sometimes.
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Are they open this week? The employees bought the company a few months ago or something, right?
 
I heard age (70) is a break point when insurance starts to go up.
 
PPL+IR ~150hrs ~25 in type (rough estimate of hours IIRC)
PA28R $2800/year with $80k hull value

Broker asking me 3-4 months prior to renewal for my hours and waiting for a quote for next year. But I’m also actively flying so I will probably ask for a requote just before renewal or maybe it doesn’t make much of a difference (25/50 hrs more?).

Planning to increase hull to 90k, was originally thinking 100k+ but I have no idea how to value these things. Hoping the rate comes under $2000/yr. I recall when I enquired about the PA28R that C172/C182 was something like $1200-1500/yr as a low time pilot.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
They still make Mooneys. Cheaper to repair when you gear it up because they have a lot of parts.
Comanche insurance is high. Parts come from dudes in their garage with a 3D printer and a lathe.
Click to expand...

yep…. My partner just gear upped ours. Insured for $95k. It was a very “clean” gear up, and it’s likely totaled. Gonna be shopping for a new plane.
 
I wish there was a “money saving” insurance option where you could forgo hull coverage in the event you died in the crash.

If I’m gone, I don’t care about the hull, and my estate doesn’t need it.
 
dans2992 said:
I wish there was a “money saving” insurance option where you could forgo hull coverage in the event you died in the crash.

If I’m gone, I don’t care about the hull, and my estate doesn’t need it.
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There is. Just don't buy hull insurance and make sure you die if you crash.
 
Mine only went down a little for year 2 of the Lance but it was my partner holding us back. I added the IR and flew 180 hours. He is a CFI but only put 30 something hours the first year. So now this year for year 3 he put more hours in and I now had over 300 hours and our rate dropped 25% ish. I'm still over $3k but I have 6 seats and more than double your hull value.
 
Salty said:
Instrument saved me nothing on my complex with 500 hours in type. But then again everyone else complained of rate hikes, and mine was flat, so maybe it did something?
Click to expand...

As another data point, the instrument rating never saved me any money either. When I inquired about a rate reduction with an instrument rating, I was told that I was already in the lowest risk bracket anyway. I have no idea what I did to get to that point, but I certainly was not complaining about the rate.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
There may be those out there wondering.
I certainly asked my insurance agent "Will it be cheaper if... Next year"

My insurance for year one after meeting the minimum insurance requirements for the Comanche 250 at a hull value of 70k, was $3,500

I flew 152 hours this year and increased the hull value to 80k
Year two premium is $2,300

A far cry from the $600 per year I was paying for the Grumman but a $1,200 decrease from first getting into a complex aircraft is a bit of relief.

Also I have 1001 hours and an instrument rating.
I had the instrument rating year one as well so I can't answer how that would have changed the premium.

So if you are wondering if that scary *** premium you pay the first year of climbing into a HP, complex, xyz, different plane will stay that way, my experience says no.

Worth noting, this is during a time when premiums are sky rocketing.
Hope this helps someone.
Click to expand...

Congrats on joining the 1K club!
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
They still make Mooneys. Cheaper to repair when you gear it up because they have a lot of parts.
Comanche insurance is high. Parts come from dudes in their garage with a 3D printer and a lathe.
Click to expand...

@Ted is probably searching for a lathe and a 3D printer so that he can have a "Thinking about starting a Comanche parts business" thread
 
SoonerAviator said:
@Ted is probably searching for a lathe and a 3D printer so that he can have a "Thinking about starting a Comanche parts business" thread
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Nah, I don’t want to deal with getting PMA authorization.

Oh wait, Bryan knows all about dealing with the FSDO from his flight instruction gig, so this should be fine. :D

No seriously I am still looking for a lathe.
 
What amount of liability? CSL or per passenger max?
 
Did you get an IPC in the last 12 months? Your 2nd year rate is better than mine was by ~ $500. Not expecting a drop though - maybe it’s my higher hull. Or the northern climes get penalized as mandm’s is up there too
 
Yes to IPC, I don’t think they asked for that date, just the last flight review which was my CPL. Really I’m almost ok to not have the plane covered but my worry is engine out and landing, I imagine insurance tows the plane outta there whereas without insurance you gotta figure it out yourself and probably pay up front? Ya I know stupid thinking but it’s thinking.
 
I’ve now got over 400 hours in my 180, 675 hours tail wheel, instrument, commercial, and my insurance went up at renewal. They also won’t give my higher that $155k on the hull value. Anyone priced tricked out 180’s lately? $155k would get me a donor to start improving.
 
Wagondriver said:
I’ve now got over 400 hours in my 180, 675 hours tail wheel, instrument, commercial, and my insurance went up at renewal. They also won’t give my higher that $155k on the hull value. Anyone priced tricked out 180’s lately? $155k would get me a donor to start improving.
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Insurance is so weird. Last year avemco wouldn't go above 148k; this year I asked them to quote 225, and they did it no questions asked, but at a 60% increase over last year. Found a good broker and she got me covered at 225 with higher limits for a couple hundred bucks less than I paid last year.
 
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