Instrument Student in IMC

[kgruber]

The METAR can just be wrong. I landed at The Dalles when they were reporting IFR.

It was CAVU in all directions for 100 miles. No ground fog either................

 

[MauleSkinner]

The METAR can just be wrong. I landed at The Dalles when they were reporting IFR.

It was CAVU in all directions for 100 miles. No ground fog either................

True…but for Class E or higher airspace unless someone has the authorization to correct it (and the towers I’m familiar with don’t have official observers who can do that), you’re counting on either not getting violated or having some evidence to say the AWOS/ASOS is wrong if it’s investigated.

 

[luvflyin]

The METAR can just be wrong. I landed at The Dalles when they were reporting IFR.

It was CAVU in all directions for 100 miles. No ground fog either................

Yeah. ASOS’s and AWOS’s can give some pretty weird reports. You must be talking about KDLS. Was there really a METAR? Or are you talking about just what the ASOS said?

 

[kgruber]

Yeah. ASOS’s and AWOS’s can give some pretty weird reports. You must be talking about KDLS. Was there really a METAR? Or are you talking about just what the ASOS said?

I really can't remember. Maybe they don't have METAR.....only ASOS. Still, it was completely wrong. We installed "Say Weather" at M94 Desert Aire. It was great but didn't report cloud heights and the FAA wouldn't allow us to publish that we had it.

 

[luvflyin]

I really can't remember. Maybe they don't have METAR.....only ASOS. Still, it was completely wrong. We installed "Say Weather" at M94 Desert Aire. It was great but didn't report cloud heights and the FAA wouldn't allow us to publish that we had it.

While we’re here, it seems I remember a Surface Area at DLS not all that many years ago. Do you recall it?

 

[CT583]

The ASOS at my airport will sometimes state 1 1/2 vis on a perfect CAVU day.
however, it always seems to work on cloudy days
I’ve learned to call the airport in advance of driving out there.

 

[Doug Reid]

Your information will be anonymous because the FAA may contact you as part of the investigation. Your identity will not be disclosed during the investigation.

Your identity is protected on POA, not so much if you file a complaint to the FAA.

I agree this sounds like a troll.

 

[flyingpreacher]

Alternate theory to the troll idea. What if the OP IS the instrument student who shot the approach and is worried that someone might report HIM (or her). Subsequently wants to know if the reporter would be anonymous (either because someone threatened to report him, or just feeling guilty and wondering if he's going to get in trouble.)

 

[Salty]

Alternate theory to the troll idea. What if the OP IS the instrument student who shot the approach and is worried that someone might report HIM (or her). Subsequently wants to know if the reporter would be anonymous (either because someone threatened to report him, or just feeling guilty and wondering if he's going to get in trouble.)

Wouldn't that still be trolling?

 

[DaleB]

Never ceases to amaze me how far some people will go to find ways to screw with others. If the OP was genuine... and I doubt it... they weren't there, they didn't see it happen, they are just trying to find some way to cause trouble for someone else. Some people need to learn to mind their own business. Others need to find a hobby other than trolling POA.

 

[2-Bit Speed]

Others need to find a hobby other than trolling POA.

P.S. I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.

 

[Pinecone]

It is not up to the OP to determine all the facts. It appears that something happened, so reporting it gets it investigated.

Just like the seeming drunk driver on the wrong side of the road. It is not up to you to determine if they are drunk or have some other reason to be there.

And to many posters, it seems you are condoning improper and even illegal behavior. I just hope your family is not on the airline flight that hits the VFR pilot in IFR. Since you don't seem to think it is worth reporting.

 

[Sifossifoco]

 

[somorris]

There used to be something called “mind your own business.” Willie Nelson even had a song about it.

 

[azpilot]

Assuming the pilot’s actions resembled the OP’s description, what are some of those ways? (I can only come up with the one previously mentioned.)

Actual weather conditions don't always match AWOS / ATIS / METAR. It's the actual conditions that count. OP said that he doesn't know for sure, and that he's basing his position on the reported weather, not the actual.

It is completely possible that the other pilot did fly through IMC, but it's also possible that he did not.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Actual weather conditions don't always match AWOS / ATIS / METAR. It's the actual conditions that count. OP said that he doesn't know for sure, and that he's basing his position on the reported weather, not the actual.

It is completely possible that the other pilot did fly through IMC, but it's also possible that he did not.

What says the actual conditions count rather than reported for the OP’s scenario in a Class E surface area?

 

[azpilot]

What says the actual conditions count rather than reported for the OP’s scenario in a Class E surface area?

We've had multiple posts here from people identifying situations where the weather reports were IMC, and the actual conditions are clear and unlimited. I'm not saying that's what happened here. And if we get into a contest of quoting FAR's, I'm going to lose.

I'm just saying that reported weather can be, and is occasionally, wrong. If I'm flying VFR and the conditions are clear and unlimited, but the AWOS is reporting the field is IFR, I'm gonna trust my eyeballs and land. Wouldn't you???

 

[MauleSkinner]

We've had multiple posts here from people identifying situations where the weather reports were IMC, and the actual conditions are clear and unlimited. I'm not saying that's what happened here. And if we get into a contest of quoting FAR's, I'm going to lose.

I'm just saying that reported weather can be, and is occasionally, wrong. If I'm flying VFR and the conditions are clear and unlimited, but the AWOS is reporting the field is IFR, I'm gonna trust my eyeballs and land. Wouldn't you???

I would follow the regs (already posted in this thread at least once), and ensure legality in whatever I did.

I suggest you work on your FAR-quoting contest skills.

 

[azpilot]

I would follow the regs (already posted in this thread at least once), and ensure legality in whatever I did.

Is there a clause in the FARS about obviously malfunctioning weather reporting equipment and trusting your eyeballs???

I suggest you work on your FAR-quoting contest skills.

In progress. See previous comment.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Is there a clause in the FARS about obviously malfunctioning weather reporting equipment and trusting your eyeballs???

No.

In progress. See previous comment.

 

[WDD]

Where is the Karen FAR?

 

[azpilot]

No.

ok, so slightly more serious question here. What if the converse is true??? What if the weather is reporting clear and unlimited, but it's obviously IMC. Now I really want to know what the rules say. Because this is a situation where I OBVIOUSLY want to trust my eyeballs and ignore the weather report. I'm not going to fly headlong into a cloud with the justification that, "The ATIS said it was fine."

 

[MauleSkinner]

ok, so slightly more serious question here. What if the converse is true??? What if the weather is reporting clear and unlimited, but it's obviously IMC. Now I really want to know what the rules say. Because this is a situation where I OBVIOUSLY want to trust my eyeballs and ignore the weather report. I'm not going to fly headlong into a cloud with the justification that, "The ATIS said it was fine."

The reg doesn’t say you MUST fly there if the weather report is good enough, so it becomes a risk management question rather than a regulatory question, although VFR cloud clearances still apply.

 

[flyingpreacher]

VFR cloud clearances still apply.

THIS. Sometimes we get thinking so hard that we forget the basics.

 

[WDD]

THIS. Sometimes we get thinking so hard that we forget the basics.

This.

When reality and regulations collide, reality wins.

 

[readytocopy995]

Unless somebody has footage from inside the cockpit, I'm not sure what all the FAA can do aside from reprimanding the pilot for accepting an IFR clearance when not able to do so legally

 

[Hang 4]

Post 67 and not a peep from the OP. Troll score 7 on a 1 to 10 scale?

 

[Sac Arrow]

Unless somebody has footage from inside the cockpit, I'm not sure what all the FAA can do aside from reprimanding the pilot for accepting an IFR clearance when not able to do so legally

If that even. The OP never mentioned if an IFR clearance was received. And how would he know unless he happened to be monitoring approach. There is nothing illegal about flying an approach path and landing based on pilot observed visibility and clearances without an IFR clearance.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Post 67 and not a peep from the OP. Troll score 7 on a 1 to 10 scale?

8 out of 10, since he uncovered a lack of knowledge on several people’s parts.

 

[WDD]

It doesn’t matter what the facts are, only the seriousness of the accusation and how large of an endorphins hit from self virtue congratulating.

 

[luvflyin]

We've had multiple posts here from people identifying situations where the weather reports were IMC, and the actual conditions are clear and unlimited. I'm not saying that's what happened here. And if we get into a contest of quoting FAR's, I'm going to lose.

I'm just saying that reported weather can be, and is occasionally, wrong. If I'm flying VFR and the conditions are clear and unlimited, but the AWOS is reporting the field is IFR, I'm gonna trust my eyeballs and land. Wouldn't you???

Is the airport in a Surface Area? If so, what from the AWOS made the 'field IFR? Ceiling or Visibilty?

 

[Palmpilot]

Post 67 and not a peep from the OP. Troll score 7 on a 1 to 10 scale?

And he hasn't been heard from in the six months since the thread was started (unless it was a regular member posting as a guest).

 

[frfly172]

Seems strange with all the questions asked of the OP,being unanswered,that the poster could most likely be a troll. Reminds me of the old days.

 

[sarangan]

I know an instrumental student that shot an approach and landed in IFR conditions at a class E airport today. I went to the reporting FAA website, I need I need to fill out my personal information, is it truly anonymous? I’m honestly concerned about repercussions with this coming back on me. I can’t prove it happened but the flight and metars definitely prove it.

Does your class E revert to class G at certain hours?
Just because he was flying VFR does not necessarily mean he was busting regulations. Once I was in IMC down to minimums (200 ft) and heard a VFR traffic in the pattern. I thought he was operating illegally, but he wasn't. He was flying VFR traffic patterns clear of clouds below 200 ft. One could argue he was careless and reckless, but it was legal below 700 ft (class G).

 

[flyingron]

Anything you put on the FAA website is going to be used against you. I have no idea what you re doing there. ASRS is run by NASA not the FAA.

 

[Lindberg]

And to many posters, it seems you are condoning improper and even illegal behavior. I just hope your family is not on the airline flight that hits the VFR pilot in IFR. Since you don't seem to think it is worth reporting.

What does the pilot having an IR or not have to do with his running into an airliner?

 

[azpilot]

Is the airport in a Surface Area? If so, what from the AWOS made the 'field IFR? Ceiling or Visibilty?

I have no idea, because the OP isn’t responding or posting details. But that’s is certainly critical information.

 

[Kritchlow]

What does the pilot having an IR or not have to do with his running into an airliner?

Im not involved in this conversation, but I’ll take a guess…
Non qualified IR pilot can lose control or not adhere to tolerances and lose separation… or worse.

Not that the same can’t happen with a qualed pilot, but just playing the odds.

 

[Pinecone]

What does the pilot having an IR or not have to do with his running into an airliner?

If he is flying IMC without a rating and not on a clearance.

 

[EdFred]

What does the pilot having an IR or not have to do with his running into an airliner?

It doesn't. Just more clueless posts.

If he is flying IMC without a rating and not on a clearance.

Yeah, PSA 182 was full on IMC that day. Oh wait it wasn't. Neither were any of the other GA/121 mid-airs that I can find. All were VMC.

What color is your falling sky?