Instructors logging landings

midlifeflyer said:
Good question. I think I may be using it differently. I don’t have any flights in which I gave dual and signed the client’s logbook that show up as digitally signed in my logbook. So I don’t even see how editing my logbook entry affects the student’s logbook at all.

@EricBe?
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The flight in your logbook and the flight in the student's logbook are separate entries; they are not linked. If you sign the student's flight and copy it to your logbook, you now have a *copy* of the flight (indeed, I've already made some changes for you, like swapping Dual Received and As Instructor)
 
Lindberg said:
Hmm. Maybe this is actually at Myflightbook issue. When I add a student's flights into his logbook, it adds it in mine as well. My logbook shows the same number of landings as his.....
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That's just copying their flight to your logbook and doing some (light) edits like swapping Dual Received and As Instructor. But you should probably delete the landings if you didn't perform them
 
schmookeeg said:
This is my take. "Nobody can use the log entry for currency purposes. Log it anyway since landings occurred and your logbook will look stupid with 0 takeoffs and 0 landings for 1.5 hours logged with remarks 'pattern work' " :D
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Regulatory translation: “falsify your logbook to show currency you don’t have because otherwise it will look stupid.”
 
Salty said:
Never thought about it before, but I guess when an instructor assists a new pilot on a landing, nobody can log it as nobody is sole manipulator of controls. Pretty sure "everybody" logs it as a landing for the student anyway, but who cares?
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Yes, I log it for the student. The problem with logging landing is that it’s for currency. Regulatory landing currency doesn’t matter for a student pilot. At that stage is about building skill and confidence.
 
EricBe said:
The flight in your logbook and the flight in the student's logbook are separate entries; they are not linked. If you sign the student's flight and copy it to your logbook, you now have a *copy* of the flight (indeed, I've already made some changes for you, like swapping Dual Received and As Instructor)
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How do you think the reverse would “fly”? Since by far most of the time, those 8 touch & goes were not loggable by the instructor (in the FAA world, anyway), why not pull them out of the instructor copy and we can add that one demo (or cheat) if we want to.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Actually, it doesn’t require logging either one…it requires doing them. And while, for the most part, if it isn’t logged, it didn’t happen as far as the FAA is concerned, I’ve heard of instances where unlogged activity was accepted by the FAA because of the way a pilot regularly logged (or didn’t log) specific things. Given that very few paper logbooks have a specific column for takeoffs, I’d bet one could make a case for being current based on landings and other logged conditions.
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Actually it is a requirement.

§ 61.51 Pilot logbooks.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:

(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.

(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.

And the FAA has never approved a paper logbook product. It your responsibility to log the required data.
 
Clip4 said:
Actually it is a requirement.

§ 61.51 Pilot logbooks.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:

(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.

(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
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Good point…you are correct.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Regulatory translation: “falsify your logbook to show currency you don’t have because otherwise it will look stupid.”
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I can see how you took that, but you did ignore the first half of that sentence.

If you can't review your own logbook and find 3 landings in the last 90 days that you were hands-on for, then I'd argue it's cogscreen time, whether you use that column for currency-only or just tracking number of takeoffs/landings.
 
schmookeeg said:
I can see how you took that, but you did ignore the first half of that sentence.

If you can't review your own logbook and find 3 landings in the last 90 days that you were hands-on for, then I'd argue it's cogscreen time, whether you use that column for currency-only or just tracking number of takeoffs/landings.
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If you are referring to the ""Nobody can use the log entry for currency purposes" part, I didn't miss it.

It's not about you reviewing your logbook and finding 3 sole manipulator landings. It's about an ASI who is investigating you for some pilot deviation finding them just by looking at your logbook. To quote an earlier comment by @Lindberg
So, do you make a distinction in your log as to who made the landing?
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midlifeflyer said:
How do you think the reverse would “fly”? Since by far most of the time, those 8 touch & goes were not loggable by the instructor (in the FAA world, anyway), why not pull them out of the instructor copy and we can add that one demo (or cheat) if we want to.
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It's not a bad idea. Of course, the student might have done 3 landings so logged "3", and you demonstrated 2, so ripping out the 3 and setting it to zero isn't quite right in that case either...what you really should do, though, is put the copy into pending flights, just to emphasize that you (the instructor) should review the entry before committing it, ensuring that your assumptions and my assumptions align. I already have that option, and if I remember correctly it's "sticky", meaning it defaults to the most recently used setting.
 
midlifeflyer said:
If you are referring to the ""Nobody can use the log entry for currency purposes" part, I didn't miss it.

It's not about you reviewing your logbook and finding 3 sole manipulator landings. It's about an ASI who is investigating you for some pilot deviation finding them just by looking at your logbook. To quote an earlier comment by @Lindberg
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You're actually convincing me that I'm doing it wrong. Luckily I haven't had to present my logbook for ASI inspection yet, and I like to think that, were I in that hot seat, I will be able to give the logbook to them and "not remember" regarding any clarifying questions such as these. If I'm in that hotseat, I've already lost the game, and it't just a matter of choosing a thing to hang me with. Perhaps a currency question is one of the more benign ones, and I can stop any digging early. :D
 
I stopped logging landings when the zeroes wouldn't fit in the little box. If I need three landings to be current to carry passengers, I can probably remember my most recent three landings. Probably. Maybe.
 
schmookeeg said:
You're actually convincing me that I'm doing it wrong. Luckily I haven't had to present my logbook for ASI inspection yet, and I like to think that, were I in that hot seat, I will be able to give the logbook to them and "not remember" regarding any clarifying questions such as these. If I'm in that hotseat, I've already lost the game, and it't just a matter of choosing a thing to hang me with. Perhaps a currency question is one of the more benign ones, and I can stop any digging early. :D
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FWIW, I have a basic philosophy about logging. A logbook's primary (and sole regulatory) function is to document qualification for the next certificate or rating ,and currency. Anything else we choose to document, whether Part 1 PIC for that airline career; HP and retract time for insurance proposes, keeping track of our student's landings, or even that right seat "scrapbook" time when you were invited to sit next to the pilot for weight and balance purposes on a Caribbean transit, is outside of that primary function. Nothing wrong with recording them, but don't don't put things that don't count in the regulatory columns that do count.

Not that it's something horrible. I just don't see the positive benefit/risk equation. The FAA can be funny when they think something has been falsified. Revocation is the standard penalty. In one case, a pilot padded their time for a type rating. The defense was, "I had enough time to qualify without it so it didn't matter" (wasn't a "material" falsehood the FAA could "rely on" in legal jargon). Didn't go over well.

I
 
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