Instructing friends - legal question

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helitime

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helitime
G'day,

I'm an Aussie currently living and working in the US as a helicopter CFI. I recently married an American lass and we've been talking about buying a small plane next year to fly ourselves around and for me to possibly teach a couple of our friends to fly too (I have my ASEL CFI as well). The thing is, my work visa expires in January and I'm not certain whether or not I'd be allowed to instruct, even if it would only be training friends (not for compensation).

Has anyone encountered this before or know who I could contact for clarification? I've already talked with my local FSDO and they didn't have any answers.

Thanks in advance!
 
top of my head...i'd talk with an atty concentratimg in immigration law. good luck.
 
Allow me to go first. I am not a CFI or an attorney, and know absolutely nothing about immigration law or employment law. Or if your question even falls into those categories of law. But since this is the internet I will tell you anyway...
 
Put me into the category that @Warren Dunes described above, but my wife is an immigrant, so I'm ever so slightly closer to having a legitimate answer. Again, not an attorney or CFI (yet). I would THINK that if you were training, but not receiving compensation (in any way, shape, or form) then you are just exercising your privileges as a pilot, not "working," so it would be ok. Have you filed your I-485 for AoS? If you are pending, then that changes the situation entirely. Feel free to hit me up if you have questions about the I-485 process. I DO have first hand experience there.
 
helitime said:
G'day,

I'm an Aussie currently living and working in the US as a helicopter CFI. I recently married an American lass and we've been talking about buying a small plane next year to fly ourselves around and for me to possibly teach a couple of our friends to fly too (I have my ASEL CFI as well). The thing is, my work visa expires in January and I'm not certain whether or not I'd be allowed to instruct, even if it would only be training friends (not for compensation).

Has anyone encountered this before or know who I could contact for clarification? I've already talked with my local FSDO and they didn't have any answers.

Thanks in advance!
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With the current anti immigrant situation in the US, I wouldn’t.
 
Depending on the work visa you have H1, E etc. they are specific of the work you are allowed to do. Now instructing friends for no compensation would not be considered work. It’s also one of those things CBP or CIS would know about, especially if it is a hobby that you enjoy.
 
Warren Dunes said:
Allow me to go first. I am not a CFI or an attorney, and know absolutely nothing about immigration law or employment law. Or if your question even falls into those categories of law. But since this is the internet I will tell you anyway...
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:biggrin:
I am an attorney and CFII but also know absolutely nothing about immigration law. But yeah, that's where non-citizens working and visa requirements fall. And I'm not a bit surprised the FSDO had no answers. Why would they? The only potential FAA-related issue is the citizen/permanent resident requirement for ownership.
 
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@helitime, I'm just curious, if your work visa is expiring, what will your legal status be in January? (May be the same answer to my previous post)
 
Thought gaining hours for his logbook was considered compensation. No cash is being transferred but flying hours could be considered compensation. Not a lawyer cfi or even an active pilot anymore
 
saracelica said:
Thought gaining hours for his logbook was considered compensation
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It is in certain circumstances by the FAA (although in this scenario it's compensation permitted by the FAA). But I would not make the assumption that the FAA's creative concept to pull in what it considers to be illegal charter without having to prove a lot more difficult things would be applicable to any other federal agency.
 
Never let a law get in the way of making money ot having fun- America's motto.
 
All the FAA cares about is whether you've got a valid instructor certificate (and otherwise meet the requirements to give instruction in any given circumstance). Your immigration status isn't of any concern to the FAA in this instance; holding a valid work visa or other work authorization isn't on any list of required items to instruct from the FAA's perspective.
 
Why not have your Us citizen spouse apply to convert your work visa to a relative petition for permanent residence?

“If your fiancé(e) is already in the United States in another legal immigration status and you want to marry in the United States, please see Customer Guide A1 about filing an I-130 relative petition after you marry.”

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/guides/A2en.pdf
 
Now that you're married to an American, you're automatically entitled to permanent residency (green card), no? That includes the right to work; your expiring work visa is irrelevant now.

Regardless, free flight instruction isn't "work" as far as immigration or the IRS are concerned.
 
I doubt strongly the FAA talks to immigration and visa versa. Since it's all between pals I think so long as the shiny side stays up no one will be any the wiser. That's assuming the shiny side stays up. If the shiny side doesn't stay up there could potentially be repercussions, especially since the FAA defines flight time itself as compensation.
 
steingar said:
Especially since the FAA defines flight time itself as compensation.
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Buy a bag of marbles. Place the marbles on your seat. Take a photograph of the marbles on the seat before sitting on them. Now the FAA cannot claim that you were enjoying the time you spent sitting on the marbles. :)
 
You're married to an american citizen, then just fill the appropriated immigration forms. I would look for those people that make their living filling immigration forms for a living, they are everywhere, don't waste your money on a lawyer, the process is very simple.

That will provide you with a work permit in a couple weeks. Now for the FAA CFI I would approach a flight school to get your CFI or the same process you went through to get your helicopter CFI.

Good luck.
 
My wife was here on a student visa when we met and eventually married. Prior to our wedding I researched the immigration rules that existed at the time. Within a couple of weeks after our wedding we filed the forms to change her status. The result was her green card. Maybe you and your wife can do the same research and effort on your own behalf that we did. Once you have your green card, the work issue and its legalities will be moot. As others have written, I am not an immigration attorney but I found the process simple and it was a DIY project. And I would think that being from the PRC that she was scrutinized more than you will be. Good luck.
 
I don't have expertise in this area, other than a coworker who was working on an H1b (in software development), but I suggest finding a lawyer this week if your visa expires in January.

I don't know the specifics, but every year there would be a 4-6 week period where he would have issues renewing his visa. Every year, our employers would have to get attorneys involved, and (once) I overheard the company HR asking our boss how big of an impact it would be if they let his visa go.
 
Have your spouse file a green card for you. Although it's easy, I suggest you hire an immigration lawyer for peace of mind.
 
SkyDog58 said:
My wife was here on a student visa when we met and eventually married. Prior to our wedding I researched the immigration rules that existed at the time. Within a couple of weeks after our wedding we filed the forms to change her status. The result was her green card. Maybe you and your wife can do the same research and effort on your own behalf that we did. Once you have your green card, the work issue and its legalities will be moot. As others have written, I am not an immigration attorney but I found the process simple and it was a DIY project. And I would think that being from the PRC that she was scrutinized more than you will be. Good luck.
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:yeahthat:

Get the Adjustment of Status form filled out, get the green card and be finished with it. If I understand correctly with all the pandemic problems that might take 6 to 12 months.

This might help a little. https://www.uscis.gov/i-485

My wife is from the Philippines and came to the US on a fiance visa. After we were married (11 years ago)the adjustment of status was not a big deal.

EDIT: Don't quote me on this, but I think applying for the Adjustment of Status might extend the expiration date on your work visa. I am going off what happened with my wife's fiance visa. It was for only 90 days but applying for the Adjustment of Status extended that deadline. She was very worried about that. On the link I provided above there is a chat line that might answer any questions you have.
 
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Thanks for all the replies!

To clarify:
  • My wife is a US citizen, born and bred here.
  • We have submitted the application for adjustment of status and work authorisation. Current processing times could take anywhere from 12-18 months though, according to USCIS. I am allowed to stay in the country whilst the application is being processed, I'm just not allowed to legally work until I get a new employment authorisation document (which could take up to 10 months). Buying a plane and teaching my friends to fly would help stop me from going crazy being stuck at home as a house husband for months.
  • I have my FAA helicopter ATP, CFI, CFII; and airplane SEL commercial, instrument, CFI. CFI cert is not expired.
@midlifeflyer Would you happen to know any attorneys that are knowledgeable about immigration and aviation law? (I know, it's a probably a long stretch)
 
flyingpreacher said:
Put me into the category that @Warren Dunes described above, but my wife is an immigrant, so I'm ever so slightly closer to having a legitimate answer. Again, not an attorney or CFI (yet). I would THINK that if you were training, but not receiving compensation (in any way, shape, or form) then you are just exercising your privileges as a pilot, not "working," so it would be ok. Have you filed your I-485 for AoS? If you are pending, then that changes the situation entirely. Feel free to hit me up if you have questions about the I-485 process. I DO have first hand experience there.
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Out of curiousity, how long did it take for your wife's I-485 to get processed? Did she get an EAD as well whilst she was waiting?
 
helitime said:
@midlifeflyer Would you happen to know any attorneys that are knowledgeable about immigration and aviation law? (I know, it's a probably a long stretch)
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No. But I think the question, can I teach in a program for a certification or credit without being paid without a work visa, is an immigration law question far more than an aviation law question. I think someone else said that all the FAA cares about is that you are a current US CFI. Offhand, I tend to agree.
 
Let me rephrase the question. "I'm a professional chef and a food service instructor. Can I legally teach my friend how to make macaroni and cheese as long as they don't pay me to teach them?"

As far as I can tell, you are simply exercising a privilege of your training without any employment or the legal ramifications thereof.
 
flyingpreacher said:
Let me rephrase the question. "I'm a professional chef and a food service instructor. Can I legally teach my friend how to make macaroni and cheese as long as they don't pay me to teach them?"

As far as I can tell, you are simply exercising a privilege of your training without any employment or the legal ramifications thereof.
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I like that rephrasing!

I think I'll get in contact with an immigration lawyer and see if they could help clarify the question, just to be sure. If the EAD doesn't take long though, then this may all be moot anyway.
 
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