Incident at Oshkosh

I think one big detriment to safety at OSH is... Sun 'n' Fun.

You can fly into SnF without reading the NOTAM and be fine - Hell, they read it to you on the ATIS, then Lake Parker Arrival controllers pretty much read it to you again, then the tower tells you what's left. I was appalled when I flew in there.

If someone flies into SnF to try out the "big show experience" and thinks OSH is going to be the same, they are going to be sorely mistaken and woefully unprepared.

They do all of that at Oshkosh too. As I arrived at noon-ish on Saturday, there were two boneheads near Ripon in Long EZ's jabbering away on the Fisk Approach frequency "We're lost. How do we get to the show, yada, yada, yada." The folks at Fisk were very accommodating and held the EZ guys' hands all the way inbound.
 
They do all of that at Oshkosh too. As I arrived at noon-ish on Saturday, there were two boneheads near Ripon in Long EZ's jabbering away on the Fisk Approach frequency "We're lost. How do we get to the show, yada, yada, yada." The folks at Fisk were very accommodating and held the EZ guys' hands all the way inbound.

But at Sun 'n' Fun, you don't have to be lost for it to happen.

I was actually kind of ****ed, the ATIS didn't even have any weather on it at SnF - I had to use ADS-B to pull up the winds and altimeter setting on my way in.

Yes, when OSH isn't as busy, the controllers are wordier than when it's busy, but they don't tell you the whole thing without prompting like SnF did.
 
Update on the passengers, shared with me by a Malibu owner friend of mine:

Piper Board said:
Following up on last weeks post by Brandon Cerecke, owner of Malibu N4BP, I spoke with him last night and he asked me to post some additional information about this accident.

First of all, I am pleased to report that all 5 aboard Malibu N4BP are doing better. The pilot suffered injury and lacerations to his face from contact with the glareshield and compass, burns to left arm, plus a broken ankle and ribs. He is out of the hospital and recovering. The copilot, who was most seriously injured, was kept sedated for several days but is now fully conscious and improving. He also had head injuries, broken ankle and ribs. The two young adults in the aft-facing seats were stunned, but mostly unhurt. One of them had to have staples across the scalp where the headset had impacted the ceiling and cut into his head. Brandon said that EAA took good care of them after being released from ER. The elderly man in the left rear seat suffered broken ribs and femur, collapsed lung, has just been released and returning home to MI by ambulance. So that is all positive news.

While at OSH on Thursday AM, I spoke with the NTSB investigator, examined the wreckage, and took a few photos. Brandon has asked that I post the photos for our members because the seeing the remains may help make a few points and heighten safety awareness. He correctly pointed out that nobody ever thinks this is going to happen to them.

•This crash, like many others, illustrates the inherent strength of the PA46 pressure vessel and its ability to absorb impact forces to protect the occupants.

•Had the stall developed into a spin or aircraft landed inverted, the result would have been much worse.

•In most situations, the aft-facing seats offer the most crash protection. In an emergency, that is where I would position my passengers if possible.

•All of the forward-facing seat occupants suffered broken ribs, likely from the seat belts. The crew still had significant impact with the glareshield and window frames. This seems to be a compelling argument for installation of airbags.

•The official NTSB findings will take some time, but this appears to be a loss-of-control accident. Installation of an angle-of-attack indicator in the pilot’s primary view (above the glareshield) with aural warnings would help prevent such a situation.

•The PA46 instructor community needs to continue training in basic airmanship, emergency procedures, and higher risk scenarios.

•The rapid response by emergency crews at OSH to quickly extinguish the fire played a major role in all surviving. Photo of the left side shows an area at the wing spar where paint is charred.

•Brandon feels that the appearance of another aircraft on the runway was a significant contributing factor in this accident, and otherwise would not have set up the chain of events.

I expressed our appreciation for Brandon sharing these details, which hopefully may help others to avoid a similar situation.

a0606d7a98c60b4c5ab5579c36294dfc.jpg



b1d03bfa0888442226a79bc625fb4952.jpg
 
Wow..very unfortunate, you have a split second to make a decision and to go around isn't always the first thought.


It should be. Especially at OSH with multiple aircraft landing on the same runway. What is the point of not taking the safest option? Keep it flying and survive to try again. Forcing an aircraft onto a runway or tying to perfectly nail a dot, is the leading cause of problems when I sit "on the beach" and watch arrivals. Folks need to remember the point of the dots is to give enough spacing for simultaneous landings. It's not a spot landing competition.

Watched a lovely Luscome have a prop strike on 27 a few years ago because you could see he was about three feet high at the dot and he shoved the stick forward. If he'd have just landed ten feet after the dot, nothing bad would have come of it at all. See about 50 great porpoises from folks "diving for the dot" every year. Don't dive. Land normally. If it really isn't going to work, just go around.


The biggest wtf in my mind is the amended landing clearance was to land 1500' SOONER, not later. If he was setting up for green dot and was then given orange on 27, I could see him pushing the nose over/touching down hot trying to get it down earlier than he was setting up for, but slowing into a stall at 250' agl? That's something I might expect if told to touch down 1500' LATER and he tried to milk it without adding power.



I sincerely hope the one critical passenger pulls through. Ultimately this just sounds like a moment of stress/panic on the part of the pilot.


Yeah the whole story still doesn't make sense, and there's some significant ($) motivation to keep it that way.

In hours and hours of listening to LiveATC and directly with the handheld while watching approaches on the field, it's exceedingly rare for the controllers at OSH to change you to a closer dot. They're almost always shooting for putting everyone on the dot closest to the numbers and only change it when things stack up.

A few of the braver controllers will give the far dot to someone fairly late and then start repeating "keep it flying, add power, don't land" over and over to the pilot to get them over the runway traffic they're "hopping over" and other controllers will just tell 'em to go around.

None will do it if they don't think the aircraft they're hopping to the next dot isn't listening or isn't responding to instructions.

I think I've heard them switch someone to a closer dot only a handful of times and usually while they're still quite a ways out on final and the guy they were going to hop over, got off into the grass expeditiously.

I did get a chuckle on Monday when it got all fouled up and the controller just said, "everyone landing 27, go around, everyone go around, we will work you back into the downwind and figure this out, sorry guys". At least he admitted it and turned something that had gotten weird spacing-wise into something orderly.

The whole thing makes a lot more sense once you've seen it from the ground. The locations, altitudes, etc... all create an orderly flow that doesn't put aircraft head to head if people pay attention to the landmarks and know where they are supposed to be.

The worst traffic conflict at OSH is a 27 departure that doesn't read the outbound altitude restriction on the NOTAM and climbs right through the crosswind traffic inbound from Fisk. That's always a cringe-worthy moment when viewed from the camp chair. Second most cringe-worthy is when they're sequencing warbirds into the final from the island and someone turns base in front of them for 27. That always gets a flurry of "go around go around go around" from the controllers.
 
...or the AOPA HQ flyin. I've never seen a bigger screw up. Controllers who "think" they are at Oshkosh and pilots who haven't even read the notam let alone beginning to follow instructions.



I fly in and out of OSH many times during the show. Controllers will try to push you along to keep the flow going but don't do anything unsafe. It's not a disaster if you miss the dot.



[By the way FLO guys...I'm the one with the alternate "You look good in Orange" and "Thank You" signs (I also have one that says "You look good in pink" for the controllers).

These are interleaved with my MVFR sign for departure.


Ha! I saw several "Thank You" signs, but no one said I look good in orange. :D
 
It should be. Especially at OSH with multiple aircraft landing on the same runway. What is the point of not taking the safest option? Keep it flying and survive to try again. Forcing an aircraft onto a runway or tying to perfectly nail a dot, is the leading cause of problems when I sit "on the beach" and watch arrivals. Folks need to remember the point of the dots is to give enough spacing for simultaneous landings. It's not a spot landing competition.

Watched a lovely Luscome have a prop strike on 27 a few years ago because you could see he was about three feet high at the dot and he shoved the stick forward. If he'd have just landed ten feet after the dot, nothing bad would have come of it at all. See about 50 great porpoises from folks "diving for the dot" every year. Don't dive. Land normally. If it really isn't going to work, just go around.





Yeah the whole story still doesn't make sense, and there's some significant ($) motivation to keep it that way.

In hours and hours of listening to LiveATC and directly with the handheld while watching approaches on the field, it's exceedingly rare for the controllers at OSH to change you to a closer dot. They're almost always shooting for putting everyone on the dot closest to the numbers and only change it when things stack up.

A few of the braver controllers will give the far dot to someone fairly late and then start repeating "keep it flying, add power, don't land" over and over to the pilot to get them over the runway traffic they're "hopping over" and other controllers will just tell 'em to go around.

None will do it if they don't think the aircraft they're hopping to the next dot isn't listening or isn't responding to instructions.

I think I've heard them switch someone to a closer dot only a handful of times and usually while they're still quite a ways out on final and the guy they were going to hop over, got off into the grass expeditiously.

I did get a chuckle on Monday when it got all fouled up and the controller just said, "everyone landing 27, go around, everyone go around, we will work you back into the downwind and figure this out, sorry guys". At least he admitted it and turned something that had gotten weird spacing-wise into something orderly.

The whole thing makes a lot more sense once you've seen it from the ground. The locations, altitudes, etc... all create an orderly flow that doesn't put aircraft head to head if people pay attention to the landmarks and know where they are supposed to be.

The worst traffic conflict at OSH is a 27 departure that doesn't read the outbound altitude restriction on the NOTAM and climbs right through the crosswind traffic inbound from Fisk. That's always a cringe-worthy moment when viewed from the camp chair. Second most cringe-worthy is when they're sequencing warbirds into the final from the island and someone turns base in front of them for 27. That always gets a flurry of "go around go around go around" from the controllers.


All accurate. I have my Icom radio tuned to the arrival freq. when working on 9/27, because it helps to hear what the pilots are hearing , and anticipate any problems.
 
We spent the requisite 20+ hours watching arrivals/departures on Rwy 27 (and 9, for a brief period) during the convention week, and I must admit that I was impressed with how few stupid pilot tricks we saw this year. Everyone did an admirable job of flying, which isn't always the case.

I also saw more go-arounds than I can ever remember, especially after the Malibu accident. Perhaps these phenomenon are related? Were the controllers more spring-loaded to order a go around after the accident?

I sure would have been.

We did see a couple of grossly over-loaded planes staggering into the air this year. One guy in particular was so heavy that he pulled it off the ground and couldn't climb out of ground effect. Instead of letting airspeed build, he kept pulling back, probably till the stall horn blew. We saw the nose bobble up and down half a dozen times, and he barely cleared the buildings across Hwy 41.

He apparently made it, but I will bet he had to change his shorts.
 
Last edited:
We spent the requisite 20+ hours watching arrivals/departures on Rwy 27 (and 9, for a brief period) during the convention week, and I must admit that I was impressed with how few stupid pilot tricks we saw this year. Everyone did an admirable job of flying, which isn't always the case.

I also saw more go-arounds than I can ever remember, especially after the Malibu accident. Perhaps these phenomenon are related? Were the controller more spring-loaded to order a go around after the accident?

I sure would have been.

We did see a couple of grossly over-loaded planes staggering into the air this year. One guy in particular was so heavy that he pulled it off the ground and couldn't climb out of ground effect. Instead of letting airspeed build, he kept pulling back, probably till the stall horn blew. We saw the nose bobble up and down half a dozen times, and he barely cleared the buildings across Hwy 41.

He apparently made it, but I will bet he had to change his shorts.

Considering all the people watching, I wonder if someone met him at the other end to discuss W&B.
 
My fun one was I was standing out at the intersection of taxiway P3 and the paved ditch when I saw a plane that had been about to touch down on 18R suddenly turn straight towards me. I was about to dive behind the runway sign when I realized it was now climbing. I then spotted an aircraft attempting to land on 36L also going around. 18 was the active runway.

Watching the plane go by I realized it was a Pazmany PL-2 painted in Virginia Tech colors and I knew the owners/pilot. I ran into her later in the show. Even after the near miss for some reason FLO kept sending her to vintage (they did have a perfectly visible HBC sign).
 
Glad they're recovering. The wingspan is 43 ft so being in a big bank on the deck wouldn't be the best plan especially if it's not something you've practiced...and the reality is..it isn't..who the hell would practice that in a Malibu. The only thing most people do in them is takeoff, autopilot on, climb high, cruise, descend, land.

A Malibu is a very honest flying airplane that actually handles very nicely slow. The problem is that like any airplane of that class there's a big difference in handling between flying it solo and flying it with 5 people and gear. Given the fact that they had 5 people in the thing there is a strong chance they were over gross (hard not to be with 5 people with gear). Possible the pilot hasn't flown it much at that weight and that likely contributed.

I likely did at least a 45 degree bank on my arrival as they changed my sequence and decided to put me in front of a Duke that was on very short final. I knew that wasn't going to work out, the Duke had to go around. I also wasn't in that bank on the deck and rolled out to wings level before I went below about a hundred feet.

Could have been worse..the malibu has a lot of structure for the pressure vessel that obviously worked very well to absorb energy and saved their ass.

I was in my tent camping next to the Malibu when it happened. Woke up and looked at my phone and saw a picture someone sent me of a crashed Malibu asking if I was ok.
 
Last edited:
Another thing of note here is that a single shoulder strap really isn't that good of protection. BAS makes a nice 2 strap system that is very effective and comfortable, and when it takes a load it takes it on your collar bone, not your ribs, and keeps your face out of the panel.
 
Another thing of note here is that a single shoulder strap really isn't that good of protection. BAS makes a nice 2 strap system that is very effective and comfortable, and when it takes a load it takes it on your collar bone, not your ribs, and keeps your face out of the panel.


It is amazing that more production planes don't have at least four-point harnesses instead of the automotive shoulder strap set-up.
 
This may be a dumb question, but here goes.

I have often wondered what the proper go-around procedure is at OSH. Do you stay in the pattern per a normal go-around, or do you head back out to Ripon?
 
This may be a dumb question, but here goes.



I have often wondered what the proper go-around procedure is at OSH. Do you stay in the pattern per a normal go-around, or do you head back out to Ripon?


Whatever the controller tells you to do, but if they make people head back to Ripon that will motivate people to NOT go around, which might be counterproductive.
 
This may be a dumb question, but here goes.



I have often wondered what the proper go-around procedure is at OSH. Do you stay in the pattern per a normal go-around, or do you head back out to Ripon?


You stay in the pattern. However, you need to remain on the runway heading until ATC calls your crosswind. They need to work you back in to the downwind with the conga line coming from Fisk. If you immediately turn crosswind (which seems to be the gut-instinct thing to do at OSH) you may cause yet another spacing problem.
 
It is amazing that more production planes don't have at least four-point harnesses instead of the automotive shoulder strap set-up.
After several years flying with 5-point harnesses, both Mary and I have remarked how unprotected we feel in a car. I can't imagine going back to a single shoulder belt in a plane.
 
This may be a dumb question, but here goes.

I have often wondered what the proper go-around procedure is at OSH. Do you stay in the pattern per a normal go-around, or do you head back out to Ripon?

Whatever the controller tells you to do, but if they make people head back to Ripon that will motivate people to NOT go around, which might be counterproductive.

You do NOT have to go all the way back out for a go-around - Fly runway heading, do what the controllers tell you. You'll stay in the vicinity of the field and they'll get you on the ground quickly.
 
Cool! I was wearing my blue "PT-26 CAF Wi Wing" hat.

Aha! Found you. You stopped us to let the Trimotor pass. :)

Here's a good shot with both of us:

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2015-08-01 at 8.30.31 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2015-08-01 at 8.30.31 PM.png
    6.3 MB · Views: 122
Back
Top