In-flight Emergencies/Close calls fairly routine?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by wdewg88, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I've had many, many. Here are a few. Not sure how I made it.

    -got to altitude, reached around for the ice chest with my Dr. Pepper in it - paw paw through the back seat...It's in baggage and can't be reached! 7700!

    -4 hrs into a 5 hr leg, I am busting. Again, I reach on the back seat floor for the pee bottle (where I always keep it.) and panic sets in as I realize it's not there! Mayday!!

    -750 miles of absolute nothing ahead of me in the wilds of NM, Az so it's time to get some tunes playing. Front left leg pocket; my 1/8" music cord.....not there! No music! 9-11!
     
  2. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    +1
     
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  3. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Yeah, Conti. Tell us something we don't know ...:D;)
     
  4. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    Denver, they ain't any reliable "accident statistics" stats to back it up - there are educated guesses, and that's about it. My experience, unsupported by stats, is that I've had more close calls at busy uncontrolled field, vice towered or not-so-busy uncontrolled fields, per trip into the pattern. We don't know how many hours are flown, how many airplanes are active, how many operations are occurring at uncontrolled fields, etc. We have estimates, at best.

    Again, if you hear anything about "accident rates per hour in GA", you're hearing a guess - at worst a SWAG, at best, maybe 10-20% either way.
     
  5. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Close calls are not accidents. They're close calls.

    There's plenty of actual accidents for the statistics.
     
  6. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    Got it, concur -we can count accidents; but can't determine a "rate" that would inform the OP. We just don't know. Absent that info, my experience is a busy uncontrolled field might/might be a higher risk environment.
     
  7. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    We have a phrase in our country for "almost had an accident," it's called arrived safely.
     
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  8. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Sure we can.

    We can count a rate of midairs vs number of loss of control accidents and clearly see that loss of control on a perfectly good flying day, even with no traffic, whoops traffic issues by a huge margin.

    The busy uncontrolled airfield is obviously NOT a higher risk environment than simply landing the aircraft is. The numbers solidly back that up.
     
  9. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    I think we're talking past each other a bit - I was talking abut accident "rates", for which we have no data of a reliable nature - we can count mid-airs, for example, which are very rare, I definitely concede, but we don't know how many per flying hour are happening, anywhere, 'cause we don't know how many hours are being flown, anywhere. GA hours are a guess. We'd need a time interval to get a rate, so we can't give the OP hard facts.

    Admitting that I'm just SWAG'ing myself, I've experienced opposite landing traffic on runways and in the pattern, runway incursions, folks entering downwind with me bore sighted, etc., at a higher perceived "rate" than at towered fields or deserted uncontrolled fields on a Monday morning. Pretty sure those events made a bad outcome a bit more likely, but, admittedly, not inevitable.

    If you're saying the OP is more likely to get hurt in a loss of control than a mid-air, I concur; I was focusing on things other than stick-and-rudder skills, over which the OP has some, but less, control. Pressing weather that's coming down, or pressing fuel margins, or mixing it up with yahoo's at an uncontrolled field.

    My advice would still be to stay out of IMC, don't out fly your fuel, and avoid the Battle Of Britain patterns at uncontrolled fields. You could add "don't land long" and be x-wind proficient; I think most of those kinds of incidents aren't fatal, though, at least not in the lower end of the GA fleet.
     
  10. Anthony

    Anthony Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No, I was right over JFK.. LOL!
     
  11. wdewg88

    wdewg88 Pre-Flight

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    Woops- that just gave me some pause! (partially kidding)
     
  12. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

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    The thing about the motorcycle comparison, and this is just personal perspective; it seems to me the variables are more in your control in an airplane vs a motorcycle. On a bike, you really are at the mercy of every lunatic out there. In airplanes, the thing that gets people is almost always their own bad judgement.
     
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  13. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    I think you've gotten to what I was saying -- your assertion that "mixing it up with yahoos at uncontrolled fields" is so far below most of the other causes of fatals, it's nearly nonexistent, statistics-wise. There's enough data to know that. Number of hours doesn't matter much. Maybe you flew over from an airport 10 minutes away, maybe you flew four hours to get there.

    The one place where high traffic does seem to bite folks is when airplanes and helos mix, or airplanes of vastly differing sizes mix (wake turbulence). Those absolutely require additional care and thought. Those generate about one fatal every couple of years.
     
  14. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    If you take alcohol out of the motorcycle equation you have a very, very different ballgame, in which bikes are far more safe than aircraft. It is true that we operate adjacent poor and often clueless drivers. But motorcycles are for the most part (even Harleys) far, far faster and more maneuverable than cars. A biker who has situational awareness stands a good chance of being able to stay out of crashes. I am certainly living proof of that.

    In an aircraft your main adversaries are the laws of Physics themselves. Still, most aircraft accidents are caused by easily preventable stupid pilot tricks like traveling into foul weather or running out of gas.

    I think the biggest difference is there are times in an aircraft where its going to hurt and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it. Having the mill quit at low altitude on takeoff is a good example. I think such instances are far less common to the alert rider.
     
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  15. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    If you want to learn to fly without flaps you can just not use them... And I'll bet taildraggers are no harder to land than my Mooney. Heck, you need special training to do either.
     
  16. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    mmmk
     
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  17. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Ummmm. You'd better go try it before you think that... definitely not.
     
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  18. Justin M

    Justin M Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    One thing I wanted to put into perspective was all this talk about "hours" As a student, you'll maybe fly 1-2 hours per week (more if you're pushing it and flying more than once a week). The weather will interfere. Schedules will interfere. Maintenance will interfere. So, 1,000 hours of flying is a lot of flying; and some of these folks are reporting little to nothing in thousands of hours of flying. You'll log maybe 100 to 110 hours in a year if you fly every weekend to go get breakfast. So to get to 1,500 hours, the amount of experience to be an airline pilot, would take almost 10 years at hobby flying rates. Some of these posters use their planes for business or own a plane they get into the air every chance they get, or are retired and flying is their retirement hobby, or fly to visit family, so they are flying a lot more than just two-three hours a week on Saturday.

    By the time you've accumulated 1,000 hours, much less 5,000 hours, you'll have a wealth of experience and training to be ready to handle that problem you've been preparing for your entire flight training career (assuming you take the advice of the wise pilots in previous posts and keep proficient, not merely current).

    To me, it's like skiing double black diamonds, or racing cars, or wind surfing, or playing chess, or winning a poker tournament. You drink in all the information you can to be proficient. You practice the basics so you're prepared before you attempt (or are confronted by) the difficult.
     
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  19. CARLOS W

    CARLOS W Pre-takeoff checklist

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    So far as a student pilot I had my flaps stay down, CFI door Opened, bird strike at night, plane in a class E airport call the wrong runway and was landing head on while I was lifting off, hmm maybe one other thing but can't remember .
     
  20. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I don't agree with the comparison to motorcycles for a couple reasons. Most GA accidents are pilot error. If you are a safe and conscientious pilot the chances of an accident are quite low. You're given just enough rope to hang yourself, and some people choose to make a noose.

    On a motorcycle you can be the safest rider there is, and all it takes is you letting your guard down for one second and you'll end up splattered on the front of some soccer moms suburban.

    I think motorcycles are much much riskier than airplanes.
     
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  21. wdewg88

    wdewg88 Pre-Flight

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    wow- sounds like you've had a lifetime of stuff happen during your training!
     
  22. CC268

    CC268 Final Approach

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    I grew up racing motocross and being around motorcycles in general (street and dirt). Other people are easily the most dangerous thing to a motorcyclist. You can't "out maneuver" someone making a U-turn and not seeing you, making a left hand turn in front of you, etc. I know, I have had 3, yes 3 friends die on motorcycles in the past ~3-4 years. All three accidents were not their fault.

    In terms of airplanes being much riskier than motorcycles or vice versa - I don't really know so I won't comment on that one.
     
  23. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Ive been in one accident, caused by a woman on her cell phone, and a handful of other very close calls. All were distracted drivers (texting, talking, makeup, etc) and all were women driving SUVs.

    If you've got a stick figure family on the back of your car, you're getting a wide berth from me.
     
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  24. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Funniest one I've seen yet...

    [​IMG]
     
  25. brian]

    brian] Cleared for Takeoff

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    Pffft - that could just as well be Kansas and several members of my family... what's missing is the guy is no longer married and paying more than he makes in alimony and child support ....
     
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