I'm on the Homeland Security Watch List!

Well, the saga continues (kinda)...

Yesterday I made a Cloud Nine trip to Canada and back to support one of the groups I work with. It was a trip of moving some veterinarians from the middle of nowhere back to Montreal, and then coming home. The previous week I'd done the reverse in the Aztec. This trip was in the 310.

The customs guys were friendly and cordial as they always were at Watertown, but they asked a lot of questions about the ownership of the planes (both the 310 and the Aztec, as they noted that I flew a different plane last week). In fact, their first question was whose plane I was flying. What caught me a bit off guard was, partway through the conversation:

Guy: "So where does [some guy I've never heard of] come into the picture?"
Me: "Who?"
Guy: "The paperwork said he owned both planes before you."
Me: "No, this plane was previously owned by [name] who had it under the company [name]."
Guy: "When did he buy it? Around 2003ish?"
Me: "No, he had it for 25 years."

The whole bit struck me as odd, as why would their paperwork show that. Then I got to thinking on it some more, and realized they were probably deliberately giving me some made up information to see if I'd agree to it. So, it appears they're still watching.

Some days, no good deed goes unpunnished.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
In the future, I'm far more likely to cite that I previously cooperated fully with a search that showed nothing, so I see no reason to allow them to waste more of my time.
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Good luck with that. It don't matter squat how many times you "cooperated". Even with the same "sheepish" agents out of the same office, when they center you in their target, you will be harrassed again.

BTW: by exercising your right to withhold consent, you would expose yourself to further harrassment??? The jackboot goons have taken over.
 
Crazy... I would've asked for a warrant or probable cause or something, I think...
 
gcd89 said:
Crazy... I would've asked for a warrant or probable cause or something, I think...
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Crossing our national border is cause enough and Ted is a confirmed international supervillain/philanthropist.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Guy: "So where does [some guy I've never heard of] come into the picture?"
Me: "Who?"
Guy: "The paperwork said he owned both planes before you."
Me: "No, this plane was previously owned by [name] who had it under the company [name]."
Guy: "When did he buy it? Around 2003ish?"
Me: "No, he had it for 25 years."

The whole bit struck me as odd, as why would their paperwork show that. Then I got to thinking on it some more, and realized they were probably deliberately giving me some made up information to see if I'd agree to it. So, it appears they're still watching.
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The same people who don't know who owned your planes are the ones who had the Kings put at gunpoint during a felony-stop based on their sloppily maintained database.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Liberal, KS is about as far from the border as you can get... Unless you mean the KS/OK border.
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"Border" has been defined as anywhere within 100 miles of a "border point", which would include an airport of entry.....
 
wsuffa said:
"Border" has been defined as anywhere within 100 miles of a "border point", which would include an airport of entry.....
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I just looked at the US CBP's own list of all ports of entry. There are no ports of entry of any variety (land, sea, or air) within 100 nautical miles of Liberal, KS (an area which encompasses pieces of KS, CO, OK, TX, and NM).

So, what business do they have there again? :idea:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
So, what business do they have there again? :idea:
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Are you questioning the motives of our government? :rolleyes2: How unpatriotic... :incazzato:

Seriously, I agree with you. One might also ask about TSA, but I ain't going there in this thread.
 
weilke said:
The same people who don't know who owned your planes are the ones who had the Kings put at gunpoint during a felony-stop based on their sloppily maintained database.
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You mean the mysterious joint agency database mining contractor that has access to all of the other real agency's databases, that keeps government jobs flowing in New Mexico for lack of something better to do with their time. ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I just looked at the US CBP's own list of all ports of entry. There are no ports of entry of any variety (land, sea, or air) within 100 nautical miles of Liberal, KS (an area which encompasses pieces of KS, CO, OK, TX, and NM).

So, what business do they have there again? :idea:
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CBP has powers under two prongs, customs and immigration enforcement. The geographic limitation of 'border area' afaik only applies to their powers under the customs statutes, they can ask the occupants of any 'conveyance' to present immigration related documents anywhere in the US.
 
weilke said:
CBP has powers under two prongs, customs and immigration enforcement. The geographic limitation of 'border area' afaik only applies to their powers under the customs statutes, they can ask the occupants of any 'conveyance' to present immigration related documents anywhere in the US.
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Actually, I think that's ICE now.
 
TMetzinger said:
Actually, I think that's ICE now.
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I dont believe the authority to enforce immigration law has been taken away from CBP.

ICE as I understand it for the most part spends their time tracking folks with a criminal record AND a final order for removal.
 
Since Scott made reference to this thread, I thought I'd point out:

Been 21 months, no bothers since. That includes a number of international crossings in various aircraft, all of which have gone smoothly. The only time I had an "issue" was once when CBP forgot to dispatch someone. I sat in my plane for about 30 minutes after landing, called them again. Turned out they forgot to send someone. I asked the guy on the phone if I could get out of the plane and use the bathroom, he said absolutely. So I just sat around until he showed up 45 minutes later. He was very apologetic, checked my passport and let me on my way.

So really, it seems to me this was a one-time thing. They checked their boxes, and that's been it.
 
They were never concerned that you were a security risk, they were just trying to figure out how to pronounce your name.

Ted DuPuis said:
Since Scott made reference to this thread, I thought I'd point out:

Been 21 months, no bothers since. That includes a number of international crossings in various aircraft, all of which have gone smoothly. The only time I had an "issue" was once when CBP forgot to dispatch someone. I sat in my plane for about 30 minutes after landing, called them again. Turned out they forgot to send someone. I asked the guy on the phone if I could get out of the plane and use the bathroom, he said absolutely. So I just sat around until he showed up 45 minutes later. He was very apologetic, checked my passport and let me on my way.

So really, it seems to me this was a one-time thing. They checked their boxes, and that's been it.
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wabower said:
They were never concerned that you were a security risk, they were just trying to figure out how to pronounce your name.
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That's most likely true. But, mission failed.

Them: "Theodore Du... Do... Doo...."

Me: "Just call me Ted."
 
I have not read every single post on this thread, but I have a hunch we all are on their watch list. Every man, woman, child, family dog, is on their watch list. I think it is because we are voluntarily living in this country.

John
 
John Baker said:
I have not read every single post on this thread, but I have a hunch we all are on their watch list. Every man, woman, child, family dog, is on their watch list. I think it is because we are voluntarily living in this country.

John
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At least the cats, birds nd fish are still free.:D
 
These guys have to justify their beaureacratic existence, so they have to search SOMEbody!
 
John Baker said:
I have not read every single post on this thread, but I have a hunch we all are on their watch list. Every man, woman, child, family dog, is on their watch list. I think it is because we are voluntarily living in this country.

John
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And in the news today:

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) - The wave of uprisings across North Africa and the Middle East that have overturned three governments in the past year have prompted the U.S. government to begin developing guidelines for culling intelligence from social media networks, a top Homeland Security official said Monday.

Homeland Security Department Undersecretary Caryn Wagner said the use of such technology in uprisings that started in December in Tunisia shocked some officials into attention and prompted questions of whether the U.S. needs to do a better job of monitoring domestic social networking activity.
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http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=473&sid=2615053

Watch what you post!
 
wsuffa said:
Watch what you post!
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Why? They can just make up stuff. And their hackers are good enough to plant it anywhere.

It really doesn't matter.

Once things posted via insecure/unauthenticated means on a public bulletin board are admissible as evidence, it's game over. These days, all it takes is a hint of indiscretion to be hammered by the wave of public opinion.

Easier to just be indiscreet all the time.
 
Ooops. I made a friend with a young guy playing funny-money poker.

He just told me he's in Iran, "Salaam..."

Think I set off alarms at the NSA???? :yikes:
 
Yes, be careful. As pilots, we are Public Enemy #1.
 
If you have a minute, or eighteen, listen to this from This American Life.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/

Facebook post goes bad, very, very bad. Homeland security has no sense of humor.

Entertaining story. Be very careful about what you post in anger.

414:
Right to Remain Silent

Originally aired 09.10.2010
 
I'm pretty sure these guys wouldn't have done that. Since they had no warrant or anything (and didn't even show up on time for when I was there), they were really just going fishing.
 
Hey, your not the one who started the"Happy Guy Fawkes Day" thread earlier today. That would explain a lot!
Ive gotten a few inquiries from homeland security after flights out of Yuma. Flying low to stay vfr at cruise speed for a few hundred miles got their interest. Apparently they spend most of their time fighting over the cream filled donuts instead of watching the radar and cant tell the difference between departures from mexico and yuma. It never came to anything other than a phone call but definately reminds me that government incompetence is only overshadowed by its laziness and we the citizenry are the ones who suffer.
Congratulations on being guilty until proven guilty.


Sent from my iPad
 
Am I to understand that it is entirely possible that our government is not our friend?

That it's employees can not be trusted, that they are not there to help, but to persecute?

If this is true, then we have to vote them out, all of them. Our government should be commonly accepted as being there for our benefit, not as our oppressors. If they are only there for their own benefit, then they got to go.

This country is not "The Homeland". This country is America, The United States of America. Any government agency that believes otherwise should be disbanded altogether. Any politician that believes otherwise should be thrown out of office.

-John
 
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All we have to do is listen to many of the Czars, Dept Heads, and others including those at the absolute top of the current Administration to determine government is NOT our friend.

When very high placed government officials can talk about crucifying us, it is not much of a leap.
 
John Baker said:
I've changed my signature line, I want this thought to spread, and I hope it does.

-John
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I don't disagree with the sentiment lol, nothing ever good comes out of those types of phrased sentiments in propaganda.:nono:

I don't think it would get through to enough people until far too late though. There is nothing new in theater, it has all been written; only the characters and settings change.
 
I thought this was The Fatherland. :(
 
kkoran said:
I doubt it was because he was on a watch list; it was probably because Customs was interested in the aircraft because its flights fit some pattern indicative of smuggling.
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gcd89 said:
Crazy... I would've asked for a warrant or probable cause or something, I think...
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You'd be doing a LOT of sitting around in my area then. Every pilot in my area has been "questioned" at least once. Mine were:

1. Night currency flight El Paso to Van Horn 9:30pm departure, land Van Horn and shutdown on ramp to eat a sandwich (dinner) and enjoy the stars for 30 minutes (10:45 11:00ish). Sheriff and game warden pull up so fast lights out, I thought someone was trying to steal my plane. Started engine, but they had me blocked ... initially ... fired up landing light and noticed they were LEO's at that point. Shutdown and answered their questions. In short, they hadn't seen night traffic. They were courteous, and asked if I needed gas ... which I told them their field indicates no gas available on the sectional and I was fine. They stated they did have it, but didn't put the "ticks" on the sectional. At the same time as the conversation their flashlights were glancing to the rear seat and cargo area.

2. Night currency Deming NM about same arrival time. NOTAM for lights out operations (UAVs active) and requirement for all AC to run position and strobes at all times unless a safety issue. Landed Deming and was met there similar to above, with Sheriff indicating I wasn't running my position lights and that he was told so by ATC (yeah right). Told him ATC had me on flight following with discrete FF code and wouldn't know if lights were on or not, but that they were all on as briefed via FSS which also had the recorded call. Also offered him the co-pilot seat headset and that we could both contact ATC from the ground to confirm HIS story. He let me go. I think some of these guys get a "brief" at the start of their shift (they probably got some type of lights out info also) and just go bananas if they see a situation that MIGHT fit.

Friend of mine in his RV-8 got tracked on a night flight returning home by a C-182 (he wasn't aware they formed up behind him). They arrived with him on the parallel runway at KELP and were at his AC before he could shutdown. KELP approach did not give a traffic advisory, so he said he was positive they (approach) were aware of the situation on arrival and kept quiet on request of agents in C-182.
 
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