I'M ABOUT TO BECOME A PILOT! Light Aircraft Questions...

[iGoHigh]

I corrected the URL for you... While I enjoyed oogling the pictures of this high performance speed machine, I dunno... if I was going to pay for 6 cylinder fuel burn, I would take a long and hard look at a Bonanza for the extra useful load over a Mooney.

This was the other quote I was speaking of.

 

[wabower]

Is the term "lighter than a June frost" common in other parts of the country as well as in Texas?

 

[AggieMike88]

iGoHigh: I don't recall if you mentioned it or not, but when you plan to start your training? What is your goal (date) for taking your oral/practical exam?

 

[MDeitch1976]

Thank you, but I have ultimately decided I will be going with an SP and hire a CFI while taking my PPL in a Bonanza! ( I do not know why I put an exclamation mark there, just something about the word " Bonanza! " lol )

Are you planning on purchasing a Bonanza or just going for training in one? Those are pretty awesome! Bonanza even sounds like a party. I have never flown in one, but they seem to be a very versatile aircraft. If you can afford it, buy new? I hope you do, so I can drool over the Bonanza Porn photos I hope you post.

 

[MSPAviator]

Your prior views before this quote are biased as the IO360 is inferior

The IO360 suits my needs just fine. I started out looking for a M20E or M20F and ended up with a M20J. I spent more than I intended and got a really nice plane for the money with Garmin 530 and HSI both coupled to an autopilot. Any comparably equipped Bonanza would be way more than I want spend as well as less economical to operate, unless it's an IO-470 on mogas. When I buy a Bo it'll be either a B33 as those are the most economical, or an S35, as those are the fastest for the money. If I was you and wanted to beat the airlines reliably flying out of Chicago, I would probably want a B-58P with TKS and a deice prop... or a BE-200. Hell yeah I'm biased, I would never consider a Cessna 400 or a SR-22, those planes are for sissies.

I just got done reading a few comparisons along with a really interesting article regarding the two that should change your mind. I will quote -- " My good friend, Wayne Ensey, flew mine when I got back and quickly converted his from IO-360 (200+hp) to an IO-540 within months because of the difference in performance. Here are the numbers from his plane with both engines....remember...same plane, same instruments. IO-360 top speed 155mph at 16gph full throttle with a solo climb of 1800fpm..IO-540 cruise at 155 at 10.5 gph...top speed at 185 mph and climb of 2900fpm (he's still trying to get used the nose being so high). "

You must have misquoted something because your information on the IO-360 is completely inaccurate for a M20J and I don't believe any Bonanzas have a 4 cyl. Lycoming IO-360 up front.

In level flight at 3000ft with everything forward, I easily see 165kt/190mph at 16.xgph. Pull the prop back to 2400 and lean to 1425f. EGT and I get about 11.8gph at basically the same speed. I usually adjust my power to about 9.5gph and I can get 150kt. I fly my plane this way because while it is 15kt slower, it is also $34/hr cheaper in fuel flow, which is a consequential amount of money to me. Climbing out at gross I get about 500fpm at 110-130kt. Fuel to the tabs (50 gal.) and 295lbs in the cabin I get about 750-1000 fpm initial climb at the same cruise climb speeds. I never climb at Vy. In descents I maintain cruise power accelerate to 190kt descending 300fpm and I enter downwind at 130kt., drop the gear, decelerate to 100kt on downwind abeam the numbers. 80kt. base, 71kt on final.

After reading " My goal for the plane right now is simply to finish my IR/COM/CFI, have a lot of fun along the way, and not lose my shirt on MX. " I can not help to think you were looking for a cost efficient way of pursing your desires, now taking into accountability that you maybe looking for a more cost efficient method, maybe the IO-540 could have suited you better in the long run, taking in consideration the added displacement as well, which should in return most likely yield a better dividend for your overall goal when taking repairs and intervals between rebuilds into consideration. Cost efficiency is the priority to some, but sometimes what seems like the most expensive route ends up being the most time and cost efficient way.

Sorry, but I really think you're talking out of your ass because most of the Bonanzas with big sixes have IO-520s or IO-550s which aren't even made by the same company as IO-540s and any way you cut it, they're going to burn a lot more gas than a 4 cylinder and cost more for MX which is precisely what I am not looking for.

Good luck with your flight training, you will need it. Remember to read the POH and set the correct tank on takeoff in your Bo' or you will dump all your fuel overboard. That would never happen in a Mooney.

 

[PBristolJr]

Are you planning on purchasing a Bonanza or just going for training in one? Those are pretty awesome! Bonanza even sounds like a party. I have never flown in one, but they seem to be a very versatile aircraft. If you can afford it, buy new? I hope you do, so I can drool over the Bonanza Porn photos I hope you post.

Buy new?! It's not a Bonanza if it's not a V-Tail... straight tails are simply Bananas.

 

[iGoHigh]

The IO360 suits my needs just fine. I started out looking for a M20E or M20F and ended up with a M20J. I spent more than I intended and got a really nice plane for the money with Garmin 530 and HSI both coupled to an autopilot. Any comparably equipped Bonanza would be way more than I want spend as well as less economical to operate, unless it's an IO-470 on mogas. When I buy a Bo it'll be either a B33 as those are the most economical, or an S35, as those are the fastest for the money. If I was you and wanted to beat the airlines reliably flying out of Chicago, I would probably want a B-58P with TKS and a deice prop... or a BE-200. Hell yeah I'm biased, I would never consider a Cessna 400 or a SR-22, those planes are for sissies.



You must have misquoted something because your information on the IO-360 is completely inaccurate for a M20J and I don't believe any Bonanzas have a 4 cyl. Lycoming IO-360 up front.

In level flight at 3000ft with everything forward, I easily see 165kt/190mph at 16.xgph. Pull the prop back to 2400 and lean to 1425f. EGT and I get about 11.8gph at basically the same speed. I usually adjust my power to about 9.5gph and I can get 150kt. I fly my plane this way because while it is 15kt slower, it is also $34/hr cheaper in fuel flow, which is a consequential amount of money to me. Climbing out at gross I get about 500fpm at 110-130kt. Fuel to the tabs (50 gal.) and 295lbs in the cabin I get about 750-1000 fpm initial climb at the same cruise climb speeds. I never climb at Vy. In descents I maintain cruise power accelerate to 190kt descending 300fpm and I enter downwind at 130kt., drop the gear, decelerate to 100kt on downwind abeam the numbers. 80kt. base, 71kt on final.




Sorry, but I really think you're talking out of your ass because most of the Bonanzas with big sixes have IO-520s or IO-550s which aren't even made by the same company as IO-540s and any way you cut it, they're going to burn a lot more gas than a 4 cylinder and cost more for MX which is precisely what I am not looking for.

Good luck with your flight training, you will need it. Remember to read the POH and set the correct tank on takeoff in your Bo' or you will dump all your fuel overboard. That would never happen in a Mooney.

Lol you entertain me. Why all of the sudden are we taking specific makes into play when speaking of 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder?? The only one who is talking out of their ass is you for the most part as you manipulate your stories to a point where I have no clue of what the hell you really bought your plane for besides premature excitement as you are too stubborn and close minded to see what was really said there in reply to your I quote " if I was going to pay for 6 cylinder fuel burn ". Clearly you are speaking in generalities right there and you did not put any specific make model etc on your " goals and means " as I'm sure their are many 6 cylinders that will have better suite your desires, but you are just too ignorant and close minded to admit this, hence your condescending comments lol ( noooooo, not you?? ).

Looky looky what we have here, hah, reference to the bold I quoted. Mister bravado LOL, how ironic - Yeah buddy at the end of the day when taking in consideration your overall goal of things you most likely should have waited until you could have afforded the next step up as it is not that much more when taking into consideration you are on the higher end of the tax bracket as not very many people with limited funds can even afford a 40k 152 so you must be @ around 175-225 a year I am assuming as you are not renting / sharing, but own from what I gathered. That being said premature excitement got the best of you on this one, you could have saved money and time with a better end result.

And sorry but I really think you were missing the point, I was speaking in terms of your generalities and end desires, oh well at least your having fun right? Hey what is the difference, enlighten me. You say you spent " more than intended ", but then speak of your end quest of the Bonanzas and I quote directly from your comment " Any comparably equipped Bonanza would be way more than I want spend as well as less economical to operate ". So I ask, what is the difference between " more than you intended to spend " and I quote " way more than I want spend "? Not to mention your theory of more economical, what do you mean, with fuel or what? Because I feel your main concern is cost efficiency so I'm positive with better preparation you could have made a better overall choice to best suite what you are looking for as stated previously, so I was right then and I am right now. You did not utilize nor manage your money for your " goal or means " as you say, but just made the wrong decision from the lack of knowledge and premature excitement, no worries that happens to a lot people. I'm sure you could go either way with your biased reference to cost as you are honestly not looking at the bigger picture here. Your budget seemed like your main priority and when transition up the way you plan, that is not cost effective at all not to mention the added capital needed for maintenance etc because 4 cylinders are weak sauce.

Good luck to you as well, your for sure going to need it.

 

[MSPAviator]

I think you have shown yourself for what you really are. There is nothing wrong with a 4 cylinder engine and they power the majority of the recip 2/4 seater fleet. If you want to talk down to people flying "weak sauce 4 cylinder engines", you should go buy a jet. Don't get "prematurely excited" from flying a little propeller plane. Just don't kill your poor CFI in the process.

Lol you entertain me. Why all of the sudden are we taking specific makes into play when speaking of 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder?? The only one who is talking out of their ass is you for the most part as you manipulate your stories to a point where I have no clue of what the hell you really bought your plane for besides premature excitement as you are too stubborn and close minded to see what was really said there in reply to your I quote " if I was going to pay for 6 cylinder fuel burn ". Clearly you are speaking in generalities right there and you did not put any specific make model etc on your " goals and means " as I'm sure their are many 6 cylinders that will have better suite your desires, but you are just too ignorant and close minded to admit this, hence your condescending comments lol ( noooooo, not you?? ).

Looky looky what we have here, hah, reference to the bold I quoted. Mister bravado LOL, how ironic - Yeah buddy at the end of the day when taking in consideration your overall goal of things you most likely should have waited until you could have afforded the next step up as it is not that much more when taking into consideration you are on the higher end of the tax bracket as not very many people with limited funds can even afford a 40k 152 so you must be @ around 175-225 a year I am assuming as you are not renting / sharing, but own from what I gathered. That being said premature excitement got the best of you on this one, you could have saved money and time with a better end result.

And sorry but I really think you were missing the point, I was speaking in terms of your generalities and end desires, oh well at least your having fun right? Hey what is the difference, enlighten me. You say you spent " more than intended ", but then speak of your end quest of the Bonanzas and I quote directly from your comment " Any comparably equipped Bonanza would be way more than I want spend as well as less economical to operate ". So I ask, what is the difference between " more than you intended to spend " and I quote " way more than I want spend "? Not to mention your theory of more economical, what do you mean, with fuel or what? Because I feel your main concern is cost efficiency so I'm positive with better preparation you could have made a better overall choice to best suite what you are looking for as stated previously, so I was right then and I am right now. You did not utilize nor manage your money for your " goal or means " as you say, but just made the wrong decision from the lack of knowledge and premature excitement, no worries that happens to a lot people. I'm sure you could go either way with your biased reference to cost as you are honestly not looking at the bigger picture here. Your budget seemed like your main priority and when transition up the way you plan, that is not cost effective at all not to mention the added capital needed for maintenance etc because 4 cylinders are weak sauce.

Good luck to you as well, your for sure going to need it.

 

[MDeitch1976]

 

[Mason]

I've flown early 172's with the Continental O-300 six. Very smooth engine.

But I prefer the later models with the 4-cylinder O-320. More horses, better climb, higher cruise.

YMMV. But I certainly wouldn't denigrate any engine based solely on having 4 jugs. And I certainly wouldn't call them "weak sauce."

But I prefer the O-470 as utilized in the 182.

 

[Pinstriper]

IGo after he gets his ticket http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/04/*******_pilot_l.php

 

[iGoHigh]

I think you have shown yourself for what you really are. There is nothing wrong with a 4 cylinder engine and they power the majority of the recip 2/4 seater fleet. If you want to talk down to people flying "weak sauce 4 cylinder engines", you should go buy a jet. Don't get "prematurely excited" from flying a little propeller plane. Just don't kill your poor CFI in the process.

You are honestly plain stupid, my " weak sauce " comment was biased, funny how you tend to attack other people's views, shows how insecure you really are. Clearly talking straight out of your butt hole with any desperate attempt to hide the fact you did not achieve ultimate efficiency in which your particular case could have benifited your overall goal of money management. I am not speaking of 4-6 cylinders or any other people on this board I am speaking to you and your overall goals and how you ultimately did not make the right choice regarding your most important priorities. That is all

 

[Mtns2Skies]

I nominate this for best thread ever. It is waaaaay too funny. Anyone mind if I print and publish all of this?

 

[GauzeGuy]

 

[Pinstriper]

IGo, your mom just called... She needs the laptop..

 

[MAKG1]

IGo after he gets his ticket http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/04/*******_pilot_l.php

You're presuming he gets one. He might, but it's going to be a LOT harder than he thinks, especially with the attitude.

The link got hit with the potty mouth filter. If you want to read the real article (NSFW, NSF kids due to language), replace the seven *'s with a very common seven letter invective involving one's posterior.

I remember that guy. What an incredible jerk. Did he have his certificate inserted in the orifice in which it belongs, or has the FAA not gotten around to him yet?

 

[Pinstriper]

Here http://youtu.be/CVY5uzNYZx0

 

[MSPAviator]

You are honestly plain stupid, my " weak sauce " comment was biased, funny how you tend to attack other people's views, shows how insecure you really are. Clearly talking straight out of your butt hole with any desperate attempt to hide the fact you did not achieve ultimate efficiency in which your particular case could have benifited your overall goal of money management. I am not speaking of 4-6 cylinders or any other people on this board I am speaking to you and your overall goals and how you ultimately did not make the right choice regarding your most important priorities. That is all

If I was stupid, what would that make you? I actually fly the plane I'm talking about.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

If I was stupid, what would that make you? I actually fly the plane I'm talking about.

I think this must be a joke. I know there are dumb people in the world but for someone thats "about" to become a pilot to think they know soooooo much more than a huge quantity of people that ARE pilots on the subject of aviation is just too funny. I think this must be someone we all know pulling our chain.

 

[MSPAviator]

I think this must be someone we all know pulling our chain.

I don't know who exactly it is, but I hope he tries out one of those 100 Ways to Die in real life.

 

[wabower]

See #122. I can't believe anybody is paying attention to this maroon.

 

[iGoHigh]

And yes I am buying a single pilot jet and hiring a CFI for a year or two, but prior to this I will be logging in a few hours with the Bonanza.

 

[wabower]

Didn't Hillary write a book about every village having at least one?

I'm out. Hello, ignore.

 

[MSPAviator]

Didn't Hillary write a book about every village having at least one?

No, I think he's just angry at the world because the TSA gave him a "bad touch". Hence his reasoning for flying private instead of the airlines. He has mentioned being butthurt more than once.

 

[wabower]

I didn't read any of his drivel, just checked in occasionally to see if anybody was still throwing troll-food. Phony as a 3-dollar bill.

No, I think he's just angry at the world because the TSA gave him a "bad touch". Hence his reasoning for flying private instead of the airlines. He has mentioned being butthurt more than once.

 

[murphey]

I am loathe to discuss anyone's heritage, parentage or destination, nor resort to obscenities, profanities or invectives, particularly when the creature in question chides and derides people on this board for poor spelling, poor grammar, poor airmanship, poor decision making, and in general, merely for breathing the same atmosphere as this Most Highly Intelligent and Unbelievably Wealthy Individual.

We are, afterall, mere mortals, nay, we are but dirt beneath his Most Expensive Testoni Loafers.

However his tirade in post #76 very clearly demonstrates that we are not his amusement, but he is ours. And there's obviously a reason he chose not to go to college but start as an intern (thanks to his Daddy's good buddy) at the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT). I would guess that he barely graduated from high school and not even Harold Washington College would accept him. It shows a definite lack of originality and command of the English language.

And if he's got 16 people working for him, my most heartfelt sympathies to them, if he acts the same way with them as he does here.

We started out on your side, because all of us despise what commercial air travel has become. But you took that and decided to insult, offend, and heap vituperations upon anyone and everyone that didn't bow down to you.

 

[peppy]

I've flown a Mooney within the last 24 hours as I type this. I don't think you can add a BRS parachute to a Mooney anyway. I've witnessed a chute deployment in a Cirrus full motion sim with a CFI + student onboard. The chute is not a cure-all to your problems, you have to slow the plane down and the deployment will cause a violent pitch up/down movement. The chute might save you, maybe. It could also kill you if you deploy it while going too fast. The chute will also destroy the plane, which is fine, because as long as you live, the insurance will will pay for the hull (right?). Meanwhile there are plenty of Moonies out there that are 20-30-40-50+ years old and have flown around all these decades without needing a BRS chute.

Real world evidence says that full throttle level flight a chute pull is a safe bet. The one deployment where it didn't hold was when the plane was approaching 300 knots.

BRS isn't a cure all, it costs money, takes room and adds weight. Some people love twins. Others think the second engine isn't worth the expense. Some love the added out of BRS while others dislike the expense. Many things in flying are a personal tradeoff which is why, fortunately, there are so many choices.

I think Mooney's are wonderful but my ex said no after climbing in one. She hated the ingress and egress compared to the Cirrus. She wasn't much for cuddling so the cozy interior didn't suit her either.

 

[iGoHigh]

Didn't Hillary write a book about every village having at least one?

I'm out. Hello, ignore.

.....

I didn't read any of his drivel, just checked in occasionally to see if anybody was still throwing troll-food. Phony as a 3-dollar bill.

I thought you were out? Yet screaming for attention, go relax up in the peanut gallery, read some Hillary and watch this unfold.

I am loathe to discuss anyone's heritage, parentage or destination, nor resort to obscenities, profanities or invectives, particularly when the creature in question chides and derides people on this board for poor spelling, poor grammar, poor airmanship, poor decision making, and in general, merely for breathing the same atmosphere as this Most Highly Intelligent and Unbelievably Wealthy Individual.

We are, afterall, mere mortals, nay, we are but dirt beneath his Most Expensive Testoni Loafers.

However his tirade in post #76 very clearly demonstrates that we are not his amusement, but he is ours. And there's obviously a reason he chose not to go to college but start as an intern (thanks to his Daddy's good buddy) at the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT). I would guess that he barely graduated from high school and not even Harold Washington College would accept him.

And if he's got 16 people working for him, my most heartfelt sympathies to them, if he acts the same way with them as he does here.

We started out on your side, because all of us despise what commercial air travel has become. But you took that and decided to insult, offend, and heap vituperations upon anyone and everyone that didn't bow down to you.

Cry about it Murphy, reference to post 76. To each his own, if you feel this way it is out of ignorance and that is just too bad, shed me some you will be alright, let it out.

Anyway that is how you deserve to be treated for treating me in a condescending manner from the beginning. That goes for a few of you hungry for attention, including the ever so softly " ignore me, I'm just here to observe " yet thriving for the acknowledgement. Never seizes to amaze, I mean that sincerely. I came on this board seeking advice and overall efficiency to better my goals and provide what I can in return. What I do not condone and never will regardless of how much I should is the ignorant condescending comments I was repeatedly given by a core 3-4 of you. I appreciate all the constructive criticism and great advice a lot of you have given me, but will not crumble under the will of the ignorant, ever. That being said what really pushed me out of my comfort zone was the mother comment, now I could careless about bluntly representing the truth. Awwww if that makes your little circle-jerk crew upset, well that is just too bad because I do not give a ****, nor will I ever.

 

[iGoHigh]

I would like to add, that they are not " working for me ", but contracted in. Regardless if they like me or not, if they ever decide to leave they can't step foot in another firm or any financial institution for that matter without my legal consent nor trade in any legal financial market in the world. Now from this you might paint a picture in your head of what you are certain is, but it is far from anything your feeble mind can grasp. I am respected and loved and provide the same in return. I am extremely generous and understanding, but will not tolerate ignorance especially from a few jokes on the internet.

I do not have any kids or any type of seriously obligation besides work and considering most my work is conducted through the internet and travel, while taking into consideration my character, I would say that I will indefinitely be shutting you up very soon.

 

[MAKG1]

I would like to add, that they are not " working for me ", but contracted in. Regardless if they like me or not, if they ever decide to leave they can't step foot in another firm or any financial institution for that matter without my legal consent nor trade in any legal financial market in the world. Now from this you might paint a picture in your head of what you are certain is, but it is far from anything your feeble mind can grasp. I am respected and loved and provide the same in return. I am extremely generous and understanding, but will not tolerate ignorance especially from a few jokes on the internet.

I do not have any kids or any type of seriously obligation besides work and considering most my work is conducted through the internet and travel, while taking into consideration my character, I would say that I will indefinitely be shutting you up very soon.

You don't have the best grasp of reality, do you?

 

[iGoHigh]

You don't have the best grasp of reality, do you?

You might not, but I do. I know exactly what I am doing right now, with intention. I love opening as many eyes as I can after all knowledge is power and the reason why the world is struggling so hard right now is because of ignorance incase this might have been overlooked. Proven fact that " anyone can do it " is as ignorant and false as the person who assured you, I feel that only the top 5% can really make a change in this world. My life mission is to raise awareness to ignorance and help build our world transparently as possible. This will happen one day maybe not for 100 years, but one day we will evolve to the point where ignorance is the minority and bliss is the majority. People like me will help us change, people like you will put us in another depression as you can not even handle your personal issues let alone the truth at hand for your future generations to come.

 

[AggieMike88]

Paging Adam, Spike, Bill, Mari, Jesse, or others members of the MC.

 

[SCCutler]

Paging Adam, Spike, Bill, Mari, Jesse, or others members of the MC.

Geez.

I drove to Gillespie County, and this happens.

Have to say, it is really interesting phenomenon to watch developing.

This is what I get for driving.