IFR routing question

[midlifeflyer]

Basically. Pilot asked for something, controller gave it to him.
9/10 it's actually not the right thing to do and costs the flight time.

I guess I don't understand that last sentence. What is the "it's" you are referring to? Asking for a shortcut? Giving a shortcut? Something else entirely?

 

[Everskyward]

I happened to be looking out the window at the time of the turn, but it was noticeable, even without that.

They could have also gotten a vector for traffic or weather.

 

[PeeGee]

Don't think so... Airlines don't generally file the wind route. They file what they will get so they can plan fuel.

Airlines absolutely file the program routes. And if they don't, they get put on it. Next time you get a digital briefing look in the flow control section. Those are the programs currently running or they'll show coded departure routes if the airport is swapping departure gates for some reason. Those are there for the airlines to file and fuel appropriately. Again, if they don't the route gets changed before they get their PDC. By me. Personally
And your use of wind route is misleading because every day there is a program out for ewr and jfk which is called... Wind route

 

[PeeGee]

I guess I don't understand that last sentence. What is the "it's" you are referring to? Asking for a shortcut? Giving a shortcut? Something else entirely?

Giving the shortcut to a esp airport. The route structure is there for a reason, and Borger or wherever he got cut to is beyond what is allowed by the letter of agreement. Means quite often down the road hell get put back on a good route so he'll just fly out of his way and have to rejoin it.
Especially with the weather that's been around Houston this week.
Again, for airliners, nobody cares about piston singles when you're talking 80+ jets arriving an hour and this thread isn't about them. Which seems to be a difficult concept for most around here.

 

[petrolero]

If this was assigned by ATC, somebody please tell the 13yo in me that at sometime this morning there was a controller that had to utter the phrase "Frontier 124 proceed direct to POTTY" or something like that.

Yes but they say it with a frown.

 

[Kritchlow]

Airlines absolutely file the program routes. And if they don't, they get put on it. Next time you get a digital briefing look in the flow control section. Those are the programs currently running or they'll show coded departure routes if the airport is swapping departure gates for some reason. Those are there for the airlines to file and fuel appropriately. Again, if they don't the route gets changed before they get their PDC. By me. Personally
And your use of wind route is misleading because every day there is a program out for ewr and jfk which is called... Wind route

Well, to be honest I don't know exactly. I have asked our dispatch last training session and they looked like a deer in the headlights, so assumed they didn't. I guess it's possible the computer picks the appropriate routing without dispatcher input, but I can't say for sure. I do know our filed routing matches our PDC 99% of the time. The only changes are usually the departure.

 

[PeeGee]

Well, to be honest I don't know exactly. I have asked our dispatch last training session and they looked like a deer in the headlights, so assumed they didn't. I guess it's possible the computer picks the appropriate routing without dispatcher input, but I can't say for sure. I do know our filed routing matches our PDC 99% of the time. The only changes are usually the departure.

the major airlines/stakeholders are involved in the phone calls and can provide input. They're also given access to the OIC page that lists the programs running and the TCA desk that assists with issues, like a flight that can't take the route due to fuel issues.
If your dispatchers can't answer your questions you either work at a pretty small carrier or they need training.

 

[Kritchlow]

the major airlines/stakeholders are involved in the phone calls and can provide input. They're also given access to the OIC page that lists the programs running and the TCA desk that assists with issues, like a flight that can't take the route due to fuel issues.
If your dispatchers can't answer your questions you either work at a pretty small carrier or they need training.

No, they are pretty bright. I just think the system is automated beyond their knowledge.

Anyway, I have been flying wind routes a long time, and have yet to see the ETA click up when I get a direct. It's possible that it does but it's less than a minute and doesn't show. I have seen significant "short cuts" that don't shorten the ETA either. That said, unless we resend for the rerouted winds, it's anyone's guess. We usually do not.

 

[PeeGee]

No, they are pretty bright. I just think the system is automated beyond their knowledge.

Anyway, I have been flying wind routes a long time, and have yet to see the ETA click up when I get a direct. It's possible that it does but it's less than a minute and doesn't show. I have seen significant "short cuts" that don't shorten the ETA either. That said, unless we resend for the rerouted winds, it's anyone's guess. We usually do not.

the problem is when you're cut beyond a collection point, fly out of the way, and get put back on your route over the collection point. It's not the shortcut that increases your eta, it's flying out of your way and doglegging back. TMU doesn't catch as often as they should, but occasionally they do, or even better you get down the road and get sequence vectors when over the wind route you may not have, particularly if there's a GDP running.
Your years of flying the wind route doesn't translate to knowledge of the system and how it functions as a whole.
But, continue to be like the orange and blurple guys and ask for the next fix beyond the fix you have at every sector you check in, in the end it hurts you and your company.

 

[Kritchlow]

the problem is when you're cut beyond a collection point, fly out of the way, and get put back on your route over the collection point. It's not the shortcut that increases your eta, it's flying out of your way and doglegging back. TMU doesn't catch as often as they should, but occasionally they do, or even better you get down the road and get sequence vectors when over the wind route you may not have, particularly if there's a GDP running.
Your years of flying the wind route doesn't translate to knowledge of the system and how it functions as a whole.
But, continue to be like the orange and blurple guys and ask for the next fix beyond the fix you have at every sector you check in, in the end it hurts you and your company.

This is an interesting conversation IMO. I'm just sitting down to dinner with wifey but will get back to you.