IFR Routing from KGXY to KCOS

Marc CYBW

Marc CYBW

Pre-Flight
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
93
Location
Calgary
Display Name
Display name:
Marc CYBW
Hi

I'm doing some advance planning for a trip from Calgary to Colorado Springs for the AOPA event in September. What is the typical routing from KGXY to KCOS? (via WITNE LIMEX?) I'm betting that ATC would like to route you around, not over, Denver airport.

Thanks
Marc
 
You never know, I've been routed right over the airport at SEATAC from east to west at 6,000'. File what you want, fly what you get.
 
If you can get to 12K, you can go over KDEN. Otherwise you have your choice east or west. East is flatter, avoids the USAF Academy traffic, all the training traffic from the flight schools NW of Denver and the jumpers at KLMO (Longmont).

Not really any difference in distance or time. Lots less traffic on the east side. Just stay under the Class B outer ring (10K), climb to 9500 to go over the Palmer Divide. Flight following is 134.85 at Greeley, they'll switch you to 128.25 first then128.45 or possibly immediately to 128.45 then over to 118.5 for KCOS.

Really, staying east is much easier.

I'll be driving. Not worth the effort to drive 30 min to FTG then fly to COS (less than an hour) then reverse it, when it's about an hour drive from home to COS. This assumes I go.
 
Last edited:
Fltplan.com shows the last few assigned routes were LUFSE - V389 - ADANE - BRK
 
That was likely cleared as DENVER EIGHT, radar vectors, LUFSE, V389, ADANE. Very typical routing to COS.

My guess is that's what you're likely to get and they will vector you as needed on the day of the flight. Once Denver Approach (maybe center) hands you to COS Approach, you will probably get direct Black Forest anyway (BRK) if it's VFR. If it's IFR (highly unlikely around here) you'll get vectored onto an approach.

I highly doubt Denver Approach will make you fly to LIMEX and I wouldn't file that. In fact, I'd just file direct because you're gonna get Denver Eight and there's no way to file a radar vector procedure like that AFAIK - it has to be assigned.

You could file PIKES7.PUB which, if you look at it, is basically the same thing since you'd break off it at ADANE. But I really doubt they'd give that clearance. 99% chance Denver Eight IMHO. So I'd just file direct and let them decide.
 
Last edited:
murphey said:
I'll be driving. Not worth the effort to drive 30 min to FTG then fly to COS (less than an hour) then reverse it, when it's about an hour drive from home to COS. This assumes I go.
Click to expand...


Of course it is worth it. You get to go flying!
 
Foreflight will also show routes recently cleared by ATC for the same route. PM me if you need more info..
 
Last edited:
petrolero said:
That was likely cleared as DENVER EIGHT, radar vectors, LUFSE, V389, ADANE. Very typical routing to COS.

My guess is that's what you're likely to get and they will vector you as needed on the day of the flight. Once Denver Approach (maybe center)
Click to expand...
Nah. You won't talk to Center on that route in a light plane. Simple hand-off from Denver to Springs TRACON.

Heading south to say, ABQ, unles things have changed a LOT in the past 2 years, you wouldn't be handed off to Center until past PUB.
 
Marc CYBW said:
Hi
I'm betting that ATC would like to route you around, not over, Denver airport.

Marc
Click to expand...

Like any other Class B or C, it depends on what runways are in use. Unless its is very windy, KDEN tends to use both its N-S and E-W runways so you are typically going to be kept east or west. As others noted, the typical clearance from KGXY is going to be the current iteration of the DENVER departure with active vectoring to LUFSE. It is more likely to be to the west of the airport (where the arriving and departing jets are higher sooner because of the climbing terrain). Around to the east, you'd be heading pretty far out since the in-and-out traffic is a bit lower.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Nah. You won't talk to Center on that route in a light plane. Simple hand-off from Denver to Springs TRACON.

Heading south to say, ABQ, unles things have changed a LOT in the past 2 years, you wouldn't be handed off to Center until past PUB.
Click to expand...

Yep Denver TRACON controls an immense area - all the way south to someplace south of Pueblo... and up to FL 230.
 
petrolero said:
Yep Denver TRACON controls an immense area - all the way south to someplace south of Pueblo... and up to FL 230.
Click to expand...
Denver TRACON works Pueblo but Colorado Springs has its own approach control. Similarly, Denver TRACON also works Grand Junction but not the area in-between.
 
Everskyward said:
Denver TRACON works Pueblo but Colorado Springs has its own approach control. Similarly, Denver TRACON also works Grand Junction but not the area in-between.
Click to expand...
Yep. But the primary responsibility area (includuing LOAs with Center) is up to 23,000' within a 45 NM radius around DEN.

I'm guessing the 23,000' is mostly because of the need to sequence approaches and departures to the west where the climb and descents need to be pretty steep.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Yep. But the primary responsibility area (includuing LOAs with Center) is up to 23,000' within a 45 NM radius around DEN.



I'm guessing the 23,000' is mostly because of the need to sequence approaches and departures to the west where the climb and descents need to be pretty steep.
Click to expand...


It also matches up with various SID and STAR procedures.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Nah. You won't talk to Center on that route in a light plane. Simple hand-off from Denver to Springs TRACON.

Heading south to say, ABQ, unles things have changed a LOT in the past 2 years, you wouldn't be handed off to Center until past PUB.
Click to expand...
correct. off gxy call approach, it'll be tower enroute to springs approach. GXY is so close to the bravo I'd just file direct and let them vector me.
 
denverpilot said:
It also matches up with various SID and STAR procedures.
Click to expand...
Although on SIDS and STARS you are usually communicating with Center when you begin (STARS) or end (SIDS) them. In fact on the DUNNN2 you start out with Denver Center, get switched to Springs Approach then to Denver Approach. But from a practical sense, you don't need to know where a facility's airspace begins and ends. They will hand you off. Besides, unless you have access to all these letters of agreement you won't know.

http://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1506/05715dunnn.pdf
 
Flying in NC, I frequently get routed directly over the CLT Class B or RDU (Busy) Class C airspace. Flying directly over the airport keeps you out of the path of both arriving and departing flights, as opposed to trying to circumnavigate the airspace.
 
SbestCFII said:
Flying directly over the airport keeps you out of the path of both arriving and departing flights, as opposed to trying to circumnavigate the airspace.
Click to expand...

That rarely works for a north to south route (GXY to COS) over DEN because they're almost always using their north/south runways. Add in the many arrivals from the northeast, southeast, southwest, and northwest and things get a bit troublesome for flying directly over the airport unless you've got a lot of altitude.

I fly out of FTG which is about 6 miles southeast of DEN. I can count on one hand the times I've been allowed to fly directly over DEN.
 
SbestCFII said:
Flying in NC, I frequently get routed directly over the CLT Class B or RDU (Busy) Class C airspace. Flying directly over the airport keeps you out of the path of both arriving and departing flights, as opposed to trying to circumnavigate the airspace.
Click to expand...
The difference is that at KCLT, the runways in use are typically the 3 north-south (the E-W runway is there but used relatively rarely).

Compare that with the airport diagram for KDEN - 6 runways, 4 N-S, 2 E-W, all being used on any given day. Less options for a direct fly-over (although it has been done from time to time)

(I don't consider RDU busy - chuckled a bit when I heard it being referred to that way when I moved here but that's a matter of perspective. My old Class D home base had 100,000+ more ops per year than RDU, although without any airline traffic)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top