IFR Flight Training.

[RemingtonTodd]

Does any of the pilots available have any tips/suggestions for a pilot pursuing an IFR rating? I have began the ground portion and am awaiting my written test portion.

 

[TCABM]

Learn to precisely control the aircraft using instruments before starting to practice approaches.

Fly in the system and fly in actual as much as possible.

 

[RemingtonTodd]

Do you know of any online places where one could practice ATC and IFR clearances? From class golf so ATC time is not very large, still consider proficient in it though.

 

[murphey]

There are a number of stickys on POA about IFR training.

Find a good CFII.

 

[chemgeek]

1. Learn to fly your plane "by the numbers": pitch + power setting = performance. This will simplify things immensely. Your CFII should know what this means.
2. Fly in as much actual IMC as you can.
3. Do lots of XC to other airports to get used to the ATC system and briefing new approaches.

By the time you get to the required 40 hours, you will be over-prepared and ready to use your rating when you pass the flight test.

 

[TCABM]

Do you know of any online places where one could practice ATC and IFR clearances? From class golf so ATC time is not very large, still consider proficient in it though.

Pilot edge. Start with CAT ratings.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Learn to properly use trim. Learn to divert your attention to radio tuning, etc, without moving the controls and taking the airplane out of it’s trimmed equilibrium.

Study all of your avionics documentation, Pilots Guides AND AFM supplements.

Be equally proficient hand flying and using an autopilot, if installed.

 

[MacFlier]

Like others mentioned, flying the plane by the numbers is a key thing, so you don't end up chasing speeds and can reduce your workload. Also, learn to fly altitudes, headings, course intercepts, climbing turns/descents before diving into approaches.

 

[tsts4]

Do you know of any online places where one could practice ATC and IFR clearances? From class golf so ATC time is not very large, still consider proficient in it though.

You can go to LiveATC and listen to Ground or Clearance Delivery to practice coping clearances. Pick a medium sized Class D or C tower. Don't pick a Class B airport with predominately commercial traffic as they won't be getting their clearances over the radio in most cases unlike us GA folks. The clearances all be the "CRAFT" format (Clearance limit, Route, Altitude, Departure Frequency, and Transponder code).

When you start your lessons, the focus of the syllabus initially should be attitude flying-- holding airspeed, heading, and altitude precisely. You should do that every time you fly from now on whether you're working on your ticket or not. The rest is mostly regulations and procedures. I think you'll find instrument flying to be mostly mental especially when compared to what you did for your Private. To that end, try and go with a quality ground school and avoid simply learning to pass the written. You need to understand the "why" behind the answer, not just rote memorization of the answer itself. That's my $.02.

 

[Mxfarm]

+1 on the trim, if you can't fly straight and level in VFR, IFR will be very ugly.

 

[farangutan]

Other tips are good. Somewhere down the line, make sure you are doing everything. The turning, tuning, GPS, radio calls, checklists etc. Try to get to the point where you are ahead of the plane so that you anticipate turns, time and calls. Early on fly a couple different approaches in visual. And while visual, make written and mental notes about power and configuration and trim you think will help. Then fly under the hood. Simulator will save some money.

 

[Papa Pilot]

3/4 of the way through my IFR flight training so I can say ALL the tips by previous posters are spot on. IFR flying requires A LOT of cognitive effort (especially at first) and the less you have to think about routine tasks (e.g., how do I load an approach, how do I activate a leg, what power and attitude for a 400FPM decent, how do I get the autopilot to follow a course, etc.) the more precise control you'll have over your airplane as you won't be thinking "how" but "what". And that is the key to keeping ahead of the plane.

One thing I would add is do some cross county flights through different type of air spaces with Flight Following. I joke with my instructor that's Flight Following is IFR light. Listening for your instructions, responding clearly and precisely (no "um's" or "ah's"), following ATC directions, knowing how do to frequency changes, and using proper phraseology are pretty much the same between Flight Following and IFR. Flight Following will get you comfortable communicating with ATC. If you're lucky, you may even get some experience with testy controllers. (Yup, gotta deal with them.)

A couple of things I did after beginning my flight training.

If you are training in your own plane don't be afraid to change things up in the cockpit to support your way of flying. For example, I have an Aera 760 that gets data from my panel GPS and I use it as an MFD. As I've done more and more IFR flying I've learned what information is most important in various phases of flight and configured my 760 to display information in a way that support how I fly. Be careful as there will be trial and error to get things working and will add to your workload initially, but once you settle on a configuration the benefits will be worth it.

I spent a good deal of time redoing my checklists. Not only did I have to create new ones for IFR procedures, but I also realized my VFR checklists were lacking. I'm now more methodical and complete with my checklists. I also switched to Garmin Pilot as I really like the way they've implemented checklist functionality. The ability to create custom checklists is infinite.

Happy Flying and good luck with your IFR training.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I spent a good deal of time redoing my checklists. Not only did I have to create new ones for IFR procedures, but I also realized my VFR checklists were lacking. I'm now more methodical and complete with my checklists. I also switched to Garmin Pilot as I really like the way they've implemented checklist functionality. The ability to create custom checklists is infinite.

I feel strongly both ways about checklist content…I’ve never flown a propeller-driven airplane (either piston or turboprop) where CIGAR TIPS while taxiing and “Ice & Lights” pulling onto the runway wasn’t sufficient. There’s really no difference in my mind between a checklist for an IFR and a VFR flight.

On the other hand, I have flown with pilots for whom altimeters apparently were not considered “flight instruments,” and until I actually changed the checklist, ASRS forms kept getting sent in for being off altitude.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I feel strongly both ways about checklist content…I’ve never flown a propeller-driven airplane (either piston or turboprop) where CIGAR TIPS while taxiing and “Ice & Lights” pulling onto the runway wasn’t sufficient. There’s really no difference in my mind between a checklist for an IFR and a VFR flight.

Depending on experience level, there are differences that I can see working their way into a checklist. For example, I have pitot heat in my final takeoff check (pitot and anti-ice in the one FIKI) , mostly because most of the time, the response is, "not needed." It's an item I think I can easily forget without a reminder. (As as you know, mnemonics are anathema to me)

OTOH, if you are saying it's not a particularly good idea to have separate checklists for VFR and IFR, I agree with you. I think the best way to develop consistent checklist use (assuming that's your goal) is to always use the same personalized checklist. I find familiarity just makes it more efficient and more likely to be used. I have personalized checklists for everything I have flown (one-time flights in a type excepted, although I have some of those too). While some of the content may be aircraft-specific, they all look the same in terms of layout and phase-of-flight headings.

On the other hand, I have flown with pilots for whom altimeters apparently were not considered “flight instruments,” and until I actually changed the checklist, ASRS forms kept getting sent in for being off altitude.

Point taken and appreciated

 

[MauleSkinner]

Depending on experience level, there are differences that I can see working their way into a checklist. For example, I have pitot heat in my final takeoff check (pitot and anti-ice in the one FIKI) , mostly because most of the time, the response is, "not needed." It's an item I think I can easily forget without a reminder. (As as you know, mnemonics are anathema to me)

OTOH, if you are saying it's not a particularly good idea to have separate checklists for VFR and IFR, I agree with you. I think the best way to develop consistent checklist use (assuming that's your goal) is to always use the same personalized checklist. I find familiarity just makes it more efficient and more likely to be used. I have personalized checklists for everything I have flown (one-time flights in a type excepted, although I have some of those too). While some of the content may be aircraft-specific, they all look the same in terms of layout and phase-of-flight headings.

for the most part, I agree with your philosophy regarding mnemonics. The one I presented was merely to show that the checklist I learned for a nonelectric airplane that didn’t have a checklist still works in IFR turboprops…the basics don’t change.

While a customized checklist can be a very good thing, and is possible for most pilots here, the problem comes in when you move to a different airplane, for whatever reason. If you can’t throw a 172 safely into the air using the manufacturer’s checklist, how long are you going to need before you can develop a customized checklist so you can fly an Archer?

Granted, most OEM checklists are somewhere between “not good” and “bad”, but they can still be applied and used safely by a competent pilot.

 

[Papa Pilot]

Couple points of clarification.

I don't have separate VFR and IFR checklists. But I do segregate certain items based on the type of flight. Best example is my approach checklist. There are more/different tasks in when doing an IFR approach/landing as opposed to doing a VFR flight/landing. So, I have a VFR approach section and an IFR approach section.

My IFR checklist items are in addition to my VFR checklist items. As I was reviewing my VFR items, I noticed the list was not as good as it could be (i.e., "lacking"). Best example is I didn't have any checklist items for verifying gyro operation during taxi. That's something I now do regardless of whether I'm doing a VFR or IFR flight.

 

[midlifeflyer]

While a customized checklist can be a very good thing, and is possible for most pilots here, the problem comes in when you move to a different airplane, for whatever reason. If you can’t throw a 172 safely into the air using the manufacturer’s checklist, how long are you going to need before you can develop a customized checklist so you can fly an Archer?

I can use any checklist if I get thrown into an unfamiliar airplane at a moment's notice, but give me a day, and I will have a decent draft of my own. My overall experience with personalization with different airplanes is that it's worth the effort and ultimately more efficient.

I tried to do a universal template, but I have found it so much easier to start with a recent checklist (it has the most recent format modifications) and make make changes for the new airplane. I think it has the benefit of focusing learning the new airplane. So yes, if my memory serves me, my Mooney Ovation checklist was built on a Piper Archer one.

 

[MauleSkinner]

As I was reviewing my VFR items, I noticed the list was not as good as it could be (i.e., "lacking"). Best example is I didn't have any checklist items for verifying gyro operation during taxi. That's something I now do regardless of whether I'm doing a VFR or IFR flight.

There was nothing resembling “flight instruments”?

 

[Papa Pilot]

There was nothing resembling “flight instruments”?

That's the issue I have with mnemonics - most of them aren't specific enough for me.

"Check flight instruments." OK - now what?

I now have to pull from memory what instruments to check (call out) and what the specific response should be. This ain't full proof. I've gotten bitten by this many times because recall isn't consistent. I've noticed I miss item especially when rushed. If I've got specific items in my checklist for each instrument, I have less likelihood of skipping over something.

(BTW I never did gyro checks before because I didn't know I needed to check them. After all, they aren't required for VFR flight. But now that I do know how to do them, I've incorporated them into my checklist.)

The other thing is that, in the case of instrument checks, different checks on the same instrument are done at different times. Take the DG. One check is done right after master is turned on. DG ... "On and running". Next DG check comes during taxi. Taxi DG ... "Turn direction confirmed, Ball opposite turn." Oil pressure - checked on start up and at runup.

Vacuum gauge, engine dummy lights, fuel pressure, fuel flow, egt, & oil temp instrument checks are part of the runup checklist.

So for me "instrument check" just isn't enough.

Not knocking mnemonics, if they work for you, great. Me? I find the simple most useful (GUMPS, IM SAFE, AVE F, MEA) because they are not complex. But MARELOUS VFR C500? Just give me a checklist.

 

[MauleSkinner]

That's the issue I have with mnemonics - most of them aren't specific enough for me.

"Check flight instruments." OK - now what?

I now have to pull from memory what instruments to check (call out) and what the specific response should be. This ain't full proof. I've gotten bitten by this many times because recall isn't consistent. I've noticed I miss item especially when rushed. If I've got specific items in my checklist for each instrument, I have less likelihood of skipping over something.

(BTW I never did gyro checks before because I didn't know I needed to check them. After all, they aren't required for VFR flight. But now that I do know how to do them, I've incorporated them into my checklist.)

The fact that you were improperly taught is not doesn't make the checklist bad.

The other thing is that, in the case of instrument checks, different checks on the same instrument are done at different times. Take the DG. One check is done right after master is turned on. DG ... "On and running". Next DG check comes during taxi. Taxi DG ... "Turn direction confirmed, Ball opposite turn." Oil pressure - checked on start up and at runup.

Vacuum gauge, engine dummy lights, fuel pressure, fuel flow, egt, & oil temp instrument checks are part of the runup checklist.

So for me "instrument check" just isn't enough.

Not knocking mnemonics, if they work for you, great. Me? I find the simple most useful (GUMPS, IM SAFE, AVE F, MEA) because they are not complex. But MARELOUS VFR C500? Just give me a checklist.

i didn’t say “instrument check,” I said “flight instruments.” In a six pack airplane, there are six of them, all with very simple checks. In glass airplanes, they are almost identical checks. You point at them, and make sure they’re set and indicating properly. No mnemonics involved. Ifyou don’t know how to do those checks, again, it’s a training problem, not a checklist problem.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That's the issue I have with mnemonics - most of them aren't specific enough for me.

"Check flight instruments." OK - now what?

I don't like mnemonics but that's not really a mnemonic issue. It's a "how much detail do I need" issue which applies to checklists as well.

"Check flight instruments" is actually more than what my checklist says on that subject. You'd probably enjoy the "avionics and switches" and "FMS" setup entries on my After Start checklist too. I need a reminder to do it, but I don't need a lit of items to tell me how.

If you do, you put it in. So, while those two items are broad, my checklist is specific about checking the transponder code. It even appears twice. Once after start and once before takeoff. Why? I've forgotten to check that and have taken off VFR with a previous flight following or IFR code a number of times.

Story: I flew regularly with a friend. On one flight the FBO checklist was missing so he asked to use mine. Big mistake.