If you did declare an emergency...

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

Touchdown! Greaser!
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
... what if anything occurs paperwork or FSDO wise once the event is over?

Some discussion on the Fayetteville/Bentonville Cirrus incident has me wonder if some pilots have a reluctance to declare when they should and why they are reluctant.

If it was me and I'm getting over my head, I'd rather declare and get the added levels of assistance. Then deal with FAA NTSB and other alphabets later.
 
It depends. If you need to declare, declare. If you need help from ATC, ask. Worrying abou the reprecussions should not be a consideration WHEN it happens. Can worry later. Most of the time there arent ANY reprecussions. I suggest writing the ATC that helps you a thank you letter.
 
I wouldn't consider the possibility of a little paperwork. If you need to declare then declare. Short of doing something stupid like declaring a fake emergency just so you can not be number 10 in the pattern you're not going to get in trouble even if the thing you were worried about turns out to be a non-issue.
 
AggieMike88 said:
If it was me and I'm getting over my head, I'd rather declare and get the added levels of assistance. Then deal with FAA NTSB and other alphabets later.
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I think that's probably unanimous around here, but there's a fine line between "I got this handled..." and "oh ****..."

We pilots lean towards the former :)
 
Been there, done that...no phone call, no paperwork. Pilots have to understand that ATC controllers operate within a rigid regulatory structure, right down to what phraseology they use. Say the "E" word and those shackles disappear...the controller can do anything and everything to help without worrying about doing it by the book.

Bob Gardner
 
Been there. Twice.

Submitted a written statement of events to airport ops. They took my info, said the FSDO may or may not call, and to have a safe drive home.

That's been it so far and it's been months.
 
91.3 says that if you have an emergency, you might have to give a writeup of any deviations from the rules IF the FAA requests it. I believe there's something else that says that even if you didn't have a deviation, the FSDO might request a statement on the emergency. Otherwise, nobody is going to say anything. I'm doubtful that future paperwork prevents pilots from declaring emergencies.

Can you link to something about the Cirrus incident you referenced?
 
Assuming the emergency has a safe and happy ending in a parking spot on the ramp I can't see why anyone would want to add paperwork and headache to the day.
 
Keep in mind ATC can declare one on your behalf , I've done it twice in P91/135 and never heard a peep from the FSDO.
 
Most declared emergencies result in no paperwork. In many cases, declared emergencies that require a deviation from regulations will result in no paperwork. Generally, an emergency declaration may result in an investigation if there was some further reason to investigate, such as a runway incursion, loss of separation, or most commonly, an accident. Just using the "E" doen't do it, so don't hesitant to use it if necessary.
 
I've witnessed two emergencies, both of them at an airport and both involved the crash trucks being called out. One was a mayday from the pilot, the other was a situation where the pilot didn't say the "E" word but tower made the call (I was listening on a handheld both times). Both resulted in no harm done, no injuries, no damage other than what initiated the emergencies in the first place. Both times I did see the pilots sign paperwork for the FD guys. I didn't ask, but it might have been some kind of waiver saying everything was OK and their services were no longer required. I don't really think this counts as "paperwork".
 
I had a sudden drop of oil pressure a few weeks ago. As luck would have it I had just flown over downtown Denver and was on flight following with Denver. I saw sudden drop to only about 10 PSI, just about 4-5 miles south of KAPA, Denver Centennial. I told Denver I was immediately turning back towards APA for a precautionary landing. I thought about declaring, but didn't. In my mind, the engine was still running and I let them know exactly what the situation was. When I switched over to tower, Denver cleared me to descend through the bravo to allow me to stay higher, just in case. APA worked traffic on 17L to allow me to get in on 28. They asked the normal "number onboard and fuel remaining" question.

I made the landing and it turned out to be an O-ring that had popped loose where the push rod tube connects to the engine block. I had leaked out a fair amount of oil, but the engine did in fact still have oil left in it and all my temps remained fine.

So could I have declared for the sudden loss of pressure? I could have. I chose not to. At the same time, I did everything as if it were an emergency in terms of looking for somewhere to put it down if I had needed to, if the engine had quit and coordinating with Denver approach and APA tower to make sure they knew exactly what was going on. They were both outstanding. Another minor note.. I didn't get super nervous in the air. Once I got to the ground and saw the volume of oil coming out, I was far more nervous :)

Carl
 
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The answer is, not much but it depends. Two events.

1. I had a loss of manifold pressure while in the clouds over the Rocky Mountains resulting in a declaration of an emergency. Dropped below my cleared altitude (hard to keep altitude with 11" MP), ATC helped my locate a suitable diversionary airport, and we fortunately landed. I received a phone number to call ATC which was more interested that we landed safely and hoped speaking with them wasn't a distraction. I later received a voice message fro an ASI ASI who asked me to call him back. I did and we spent some quality time on the phone during which I told him I had some responsibility for what happened. The next thing was paperwork - a year later when a sent a FOIA request to ask if the tapes and any of the records were still available.

2. A pilot on a Part 135 flight had a flame out in the Class B airspace over Denver. Didn't declare an emergency which, in turn, did not give ATC an opportunity to clear nearby traffic, so there was a loss of IFR separation - good thing that was all! - in busy airspace, which would have been avoided if he had taken a second or two to declare. The "paperwork" in that case was a certificate action against the pilot. It was resolved at the informal conference stage - when the FAA attorney accepted that it was in fact an emergency, although a major sticking point was whether the pilot created the emergency - and withdrew the certificate action after months of nervousness, anticipation, dealing with lawyers and worrying about keeping his job. All of which would most likely have been avoided with the "E" word.

Which you would prefer is entirely up to you.
 
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Lost oil pressure outside Baltimore, ATC asked my intentions, since I was in gliding distance I did a dead stick into Martin State. ATC cleared traffic and declared for me, rolled the crash trucks, the whole deal. Was able to roll it off the runway onto the taxiway. The fire guys said they roll apparatus at any opportunity just for the practice. The airport manager came over, asked if I was ok, and that was it. No paperwork, nuttin'.

Never heard another peep. If you need help, ask and ye shall receive.
 
SportPilotCO said:
They asked the normal "number onboard and fuel remaining" question.
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I believe that when they ask that question they have declared an emergency for you.

I was planning for an ILS through a solid overcast with a sick engine when they ask me the questions. I had better things to do but gave'em quick answers. Than I figured out that I really didn't want to be dragging it in on a glideslope with a sick engine.

The only thing ATC wanted was a phone call after I landed. The airport manager took care of that and also called out a mechanic.
 
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I believe that when they ask that question they have declared an emergency for you.
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Not necessarily. We write these things down in the event an emergency is eventually declared, we save some time. In fact, most the information obtained by ATC in an emergency isn't for some FAA report, its for the daily log we have to keep. In most cases the information doesn't go further than the chief controller or air traffic manager. Controllers don't like paperwork any more than pilots....I'm both.
 
AggieMike88 said:
... what if anything occurs paperwork or FSDO wise once the event is over?

Some discussion on the Fayetteville/Bentonville Cirrus incident has me wonder if some pilots have a reluctance to declare when they should and why they are reluctant.

If it was me and I'm getting over my head, I'd rather declare and get the added levels of assistance. Then deal with FAA NTSB and other alphabets later.
Click to expand...

It's never gone further than after landing get a phone number to call for me. They ask me to lay out what happened so they can fill in their report then "thank, glad you're ok". What happens from there I would imagine is highly dependent on what you explained.
 
I wish we'd stop elevating declaring an emergency by calling it the "E word" and other things. It makes it taboo like the "F word" which we all know we're not supposed to use.
 
I've declared 4 times and have only ever had to fill out an irregularity report for the companies records.
 
I declared an emergency when I lost my alternator while IFR above an undercast a few years ago. Never heard anything from the FAA.

Within the last year one of our club members did declare an emergency for what turned out to be a magneto failure shortly after takeoff. He did get a call from the FSDO, but after a polite conversation the matter was closed.

Another member somehow detected in flight that one of the struts on his Archer was flat. He didn't declare an emergency, but did ask Austin tower to let him use the the 12,500 foot runway, rather the the 'small' 9000 foot runway that almost all GA airplanes use.

He did get a call from the FSDO, and I think it was a little more tense than the first guy's conversation. I don't think anything formal came out of it though.
 
Nothing here either. I've declared and the only thing that we ended up doing was sending back a potentially faulty part to the manufacturer so they could examine it.
 
bobmrg said:
Been there, done that...no phone call, no paperwork. Pilots have to understand that ATC controllers operate within a rigid regulatory structure, right down to what phraseology they use. Say the "E" word and those shackles disappear...the controller can do anything and everything to help without worrying about doing it by the book.

Bob Gardner
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Yep, once the flight goes into 'emergency' rules, anything can now be presented or taken advantage of. However the controller isn't really limited, because he can declare for you if he has reason to think the outcome of your flight is in jeopardy.
 
bflynn said:
91.3 says that if you have an emergency, you might have to give a writeup of any deviations from the rules IF the FAA requests it. I believe there's something else that says that even if you didn't have a deviation, the FSDO might request a statement on the emergency. Otherwise, nobody is going to say anything. I'm doubtful that future paperwork prevents pilots from declaring emergencies.

Can you link to something about the Cirrus incident you referenced?
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It's really amazing how resistant some people are though.:dunno:
 
Declared one a Sunday filed the NASA report on Monday, got a call from FSDO on Friday and that was it.
 
This summer I had a gear failure in our club's Cutlass the left main gear actuator failed so the gear was just hanging there. I contacted our tower and let them know what was going on. We did the flyby and confirmed the problem.
We left the pattern and went north of the airport to work through all our options to no avail. When we left the pattern I asked them to call the equipment (local fire department). We came back in and made a successful gear up landing.
Later that evening I stopped by the tower and we discussed the incident and we realized no one officially declared and emergency. We both agreed that after the initial call the emergency was implied and the rule book went out the window.
Being a former controller I more or less understood what was going on in the tower and that we essentially owned the airport.
A couple of days later I met with the FSDO inspector at the airport, All I had to do was submit a written narrative of the incident and provide proof of currency. It took about 10 minutes and that was all there was to it.

The bottom line is never be afraid to declare an emergency, do what you need to do and worry about the paperwork later.

Dave
 
I had an engine failure flying young eagles back in 2001. Nobody from the FAA gave a hoot (the airport manager closed the airport so they did report that to the FAA) after they found out that there were no injuries and minor airframe (other than the engine itself) damage.

I did have to spend some time helping one of our state troopers fill out an accident report form (he knows nothing about aviation) but it wasn't unpleasant.

One time after coming out of maintenance (on the electrical system), I thought I smelled smoke so I told the tower I was returning and was killing the master. This was a mixed used field and the entire ANG CFR brigade chased down the runway after me. I gave my phone number to the fire chief but nothing came of that.

I didn't declare but told ATC I wanted to divert because of an engine misfire. The fire crews were rolling as I broke out on approach. Nothing whatsoever came of that.

Came in NORDO into IAD one time. Managed to avoid getting them to roll the equipment on that.
 
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The last emergency I declared was for a total loss of oil pressure and engine shutdown, in a twin. I called departure and let them know what happened. They vectored me back to the runway. I asked if they would roll trucks because I knew those guys would want in on the fun. After landing and on the taxi to the ramp, I did thank the guys in ATC for their great help and apologized for them having to divert traffic.

At the ramp the trucks stopped close to the plane. I got out and introduced myself to the guys on the trucks and thanked them for doing their job so well.

I had briefed the med crew before landing that I did not want to meet anyone after landing. The plan was we will walk through the FBO and into the crew car and go get something to eat, which was what we did.
 
cowman said:
I am really curious how in the world you'd detect that on an Archer in flight...
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Ha...

I was thinking the exact same thing...

All I can assume is the pilot saw a bulge in the top wing skin and noticed the shrader valve sticking out after his last " firm" landing and figured the strut had to flat.:yikes::hairraise:.....:redface:
 
I have declared emergencies 5 times over the past 49 years. I have never had the FAA come around to ask questions regarding the events. Declaring an emergency isn't something that ought to cause a pilot any hesitation if the circumstances warrant it. Do whatever you need to do to get safely on the ground then deal with the ramifications, If any, on the ground in the safety and comfort of your recliner.
 
Expect to have to tell the story of your emergency at any airline interview. Not a bad thing, however you might want to "spin it" in your favor. Half of those guys have done it too, so its no stigma. But they want a good story.....

Thats another reason to send the thank you letter.
 
Declared three times. Canceled one because the problem resolved itself. Second and third ones, the wonderful ATC folks sent the po po to the airport to make sure we landed safely. First was in Texas, and the cop gave me a ride to a hotel 3 miles from the airport, second one the deputy gave Pete and I a ride all the way to Pullman (about 25 miles), then came by the next morning and gave us a ride to Pullman airport so we could catch a flight home.

No paperwork, no phone calls from the FAA or anyone.

The one thing I can say is; that calm, collected voice on the other end of the radio was so appreciated when I was stressing out because of them pesky little in-flight emergencies.

Declare if feel you need to, don't worry about the rest.
 
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