If he who dies with the most toys wins then...

Have you seen or heard of the Barber Motorsports Vintage Motorcycle Museum? Blew me away,got to be more than a thousand bikes from 1867 to 2015, plus dozens of cars and trucks, racecars from the 30s to 80s, a full restoration shop, track, etc. oh my God! He wins . . . .
 
Well, he may not be flying all of them as much as we'd like him to, or even as much as we imagine we'd like to if given the chance, but clearly he isn't just letting them all waste away.
 
DJTorrente said:
Well, he may not be flying all of them as much as we'd like him to, or even as much as we imagine we'd like to if given the chance, but clearly he isn't just letting them all waste away.
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Well, he's protecting them from deterioration is true, but planes are meant to fly or they are a waste of resources, so in that way they are exactly wasting away.
 
Henning said:
Well, he's protecting them from deterioration is true, but planes are meant to fly or they are a waste of resources, so in that way they are exactly wasting away.
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Unless they are in a public display museum which these do not appear to be. Still, I agree that I would rather see them fly.
 
FastEddieB said:
I'll say!

tumblr_lqcy748PzE1qzrlhgo1_400.gif
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That scene always cracks me up.
 
I ya'll were wondering, you could keep it in the bank and pay your taxes at your rate (assuming his in the +38% bracket) Or.

you can buy stuff with it and pay only property taxes. (1% of assessed value in many places)

Some of those things are considered "personal" and some are considered "Antique or of Historical value" and are taxed at a much reduced rate.

So, assuming the stuff doesn't depreciate any more (your basic DC3 isnt worth a lot), its a good place to park your money.
 
44Gort said:
I ya'll were wondering, you could keep it in the bank and pay your taxes at your rate (assuming his in the +38% bracket) Or.

you can buy stuff with it and pay only property taxes. (1% of assessed value in many places)

Some of those things are considered "personal" and some are considered "Antique or of Historical value" and are taxed at a much reduced rate.

So, assuming the stuff doesn't depreciate any more (your basic DC3 isnt worth a lot), its a good place to park your money.
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If this guy is really rich he probably has gone further into philanthropy realizing that collecting stuff isn't particularly fulfilling.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Unless they are in a public display museum which these do not appear to be. Still, I agree that I would rather see them fly.
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Exactly, at least on public display a few more people get to enjoy it.
 
timwinters said:
Bill...this is in Cape, that's where I'm based.
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Looked familiar. I've seen the hangar, then, and the planes. Had a chance to go in one of the DC3's - nice planes. Last time I was there was about 10 years ago.
 
Used to go to Troy AL every now and then to walk thru Wiley Sander's hanger. Like a little museum. Besides the usual business jets that the wealthy own, he had a P-51, T-28, T-6, A-1, B-25, DC-3 and various other things. Hardly ever saw them fly though.
 
44Gort said:
I ya'll were wondering, you could keep it in the bank and pay your taxes at your rate (assuming his in the +38% bracket) Or.

you can buy stuff with it and pay only property taxes. (1% of assessed value in many places)

Some of those things are considered "personal" and some are considered "Antique or of Historical value" and are taxed at a much reduced rate.

So, assuming the stuff doesn't depreciate any more (your basic DC3 isnt worth a lot), its a good place to park your money.
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So you'd park your money in non-appreciating assets? I'd at least be parking my money in something that at least offsets inflation. If you want to invest in property and pay minimal taxes, why not just buy real estate instead of a bunch of equipment you don't intend to use and have to insure?
 
44Gort said:
I ya'll were wondering, you could keep it in the bank and pay your taxes at your rate (assuming his in the +38% bracket) Or.

you can buy stuff with it and pay only property taxes. (1% of assessed value in many places)

Some of those things are considered "personal" and some are considered "Antique or of Historical value" and are taxed at a much reduced rate.

So, assuming the stuff doesn't depreciate any more (your basic DC3 isnt worth a lot), its a good place to park your money.
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What states charge you taxes on money sitting in the bank?
 
Velocity173 said:
Used to go to Troy AL every now and then to walk thru Wiley Sander's hanger. Like a little museum. Besides the usual business jets that the wealthy own, he had a P-51, T-28, T-6, A-1, B-25, DC-3 and various other things. Hardly ever saw them fly though.
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Sounds like Mark Trimble's hangar down at Branson (at Point Lookout actually...KPLK). He has lots of toys. In his case though, he has guys who help him keep them clean, maintained and fly them...retired volunteers who just eat it up...Mark's a great guy.
 
WOW that is a great collection!!!
 
Lindberg said:
What states charge you taxes on money sitting in the bank?
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I was wondering the same thing.

He would pay taxes on that money ONCE, regardless of what he does with it thereafter, and buying the planes does nothing to eliminate the one occurrence of taxation.
 
44Gort said:
I ya'll were wondering, you could keep it in the bank and pay your taxes at your rate (assuming his in the +38% bracket) Or.

you can buy stuff with it and pay only property taxes. (1% of assessed value in many places)

Some of those things are considered "personal" and some are considered "Antique or of Historical value" and are taxed at a much reduced rate.

So, assuming the stuff doesn't depreciate any more (your basic DC3 isnt worth a lot), its a good place to park your money.
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Paying 38% tax on a 1% or less interest payment vs. paying property tax, plus registration fees, plus insurance, plus hangar rent? I don't see this as a positive investment strategy. And that's just assuming the alternative is putting it in the bank. More likely, it would be invested in the market, and he would be paying the max on capital gains plus his personal tax rate on dividends.
 
Stevel said:
I was wondering the same thing.

He would pay taxes on that money ONCE, regardless of what he does with it thereafter, and buying the planes does nothing to eliminate the one occurrence of taxation.
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Inless its in a tax free account [Ira, 401k,etc], you're going to pay taxes annually on interest income. If its invested, you pay capital gains when you sell. If y ou keep it as personal property in a trust, the trust pays 1% PPtax and you can change trustees and avoid inheritance and estate taxes.

If the property is considered capital equipment in a business (like a museum or anything really), you can depreciate it and carry over the depreciation to offset even the PPtax.

As for overhead, Im sure he's rich enough to self-insure and owns the hangar. If he rents, its an expense.

With that much money tied up in aircraft (Im assuming he has other assets as well), the overhead may not equal inflation. He also qualifies for investing in Hedge accounts; where most of us dont.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/do-you-meet-hedge-fund-investing-qualifications.html


Ill bet he pays less taxes then most on this board. :wink2:
 
44Gort said:
Inless its in a tax free account [Ira, 401k,etc], you're going to pay taxes annually on interest income. If its invested, you pay capital gains when you sell. If y ou keep it as personal property in a trust, the trust pays 1% PPtax and you can change trustees and avoid inheritance and estate taxes.

If the property is considered capital equipment in a business (like a museum or anything really), you can depreciate it and carry over the depreciation to offset even the PPtax.

As for overhead, Im sure he's rich enough to self-insure and owns the hangar. If he rents, its an expense.

With that much money tied up in aircraft (Im assuming he has other assets as well), the overhead may not equal inflation. He also qualifies for investing in Hedge accounts; where most of us dont.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/do-you-meet-hedge-fund-investing-qualifications.html


Ill bet he pays less taxes then most on this board. :wink2:
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Agreed....

People that rich don't gain that much money from being stupid....:no::no:
 
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Henning said:
Well, he's protecting them from deterioration is true, but planes are meant to fly or they are a waste of resources, so in that way they are exactly wasting away.
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Nope. If they sit there long enough, they will be some rare examples of what aviation used to look like. Stuff that flies gets worn out or sometimes crashed. Nothing wrong with having them sit quietly, especially with future generations in mind. That hangar is a time capsule.

Dan
 
"So you'd park your money in non-appreciating assets? I'd at least be parking my money in something that at least offsets inflation. If you want to invest in property and pay minimal taxes, why not just buy real estate instead of a bunch of equipment you don't intend to use and have to insure?"

Not all your assets should be in 'appreciating' categories. At least some (some experts say 10%) should be in some form of hedge asset.

Since us po-folks cant be in hedge funds (it takes a lot to even qualify) the best thing we can do is keep a stash of some thing like Gold or other precious commodities. Some people collect guns, gold or even....airplanes, if they've already depreciated from their initial sales value. Yes Real Estate is a good thing, especially if you dont have a lot to invest and you have the benefit of living in it.

I try to restore aircraft that are teetering on the brink of oblivion. I put all my 'Descretionary" income that would otherwise go into Hookers and Beer. It keeps me off the streets, busy and if I croak, my wife can donate it all to a museum for a tax deduction. [she knows that would just pi$$ me off]. :)
 
Dan Thomas said:
Nope. If they sit there long enough, they will be some rare examples of what aviation used to look like. Stuff that flies gets worn out or sometimes crashed. Nothing wrong with having them sit quietly, especially with future generations in mind. That hangar is a time capsule.

Dan
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There is nothing rare in that hangar. Even the Staggerwing, you find rows of them every year at OSH.
 
He likely doesn't have them to impress anyone, just cuz he wants to.
 
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44Gort said:
Not all your assets should be in 'appreciating' categories. At least some (some experts say 10%) should be in some form of hedge asset . . . I put all my 'Discretionary" income that would otherwise go into Hookers and Beer. It keeps me off the streets, busy and if I croak, my wife can donate it all to a museum for a tax deduction. [she knows that would just pi$$ me off]. :)
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Agreed, but I wouldn't be hedging my money on an eclectic mix of aircraft, none of which is likely to hold value, other than the Staggerwing. Investments in gold/platinum are easier, as liquidity is high and, aside from having your safe/house robbed, there's not much need to have it insured.
 
That Staggerwing sitting there makes me want to cry.
 
Everskyward said:
Seems like I've seen the Legend Airways DC-3 before, and also the Beaver.



http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=25641



http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=323RS



Both registered to "Legend Airways of Colorado" so it's possible.
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Now that I look at the other DC-3 it also looks familiar. I might have gone for a ride in it. Will check to see if I have any pics when I get home. Interesting that the owner has a Colorado address but the airplanes are in Missouri.
 
Everskyward said:
Now that I look at the other DC-3 it also looks familiar. I might have gone for a ride in it. Will check to see if I have any pics when I get home. Interesting that the owner has a Colorado address but the airplanes are in Missouri.
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None of that stuff is important to him anymore is why.
 
Henning said:
None of that stuff is important to him anymore is why.
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If I'm guessing correctly about the airplanes, I last saw the owner in the mid 1990s and he wasn't young at that time.
 
Everskyward said:
If I'm guessing correctly about the airplanes, I last saw the owner in the mid 1990s and he wasn't young at that time.
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Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. He bought a bunch of stuff from his youth, but it didn't buy him youth or happiness in the end, so he moved on. It's not uncommon. The things that matter can't be bought, they have to be made to happen; and that takes more than just buying stuff.
 
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