I want to buy an airplane but do I need one?

saddletramp

saddletramp

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saddletramp
I started flying again a few months back after a 22 year hiatus. I'm presently renting either a 172 or 182 depending on the flight.

I owned an FBO in the early 90's & had two owned airplanes, two on lease-back, & a leased glider. So I'm familiar with the costs of ownership.

I've always dreamed about owning an airplane for the pleasure of flying when I want & something to tinker on.

My current thoughts are either a 180/182 or...a Super Cub, Citabria type for local hops & renting something bigger for longer trips. I can spend $50 to $100K without borrowing but being close to retirement age is that a good place to invest some capital?

Can airplane ownership for just pleasure really be justified? Do any of you that own a plane for non-business use ever regret the decision?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts/experiences.
 
Whether it's justified is a matter of what it's worth to you vs what it costs you. Nobody can answer that question for you, it's entirely subjective.

You probably already understand that airplanes are money pits, just like cars. You will lose money on it. I would point out, however, that one cannot take money with them when they die. Good times, especially with family/good friends are what you will remember and what others will remember about you more than your net worth.
 
I don't recall seeing airplanes anywhere in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

If you have the cash, buy one. If you have the cash and need to justify it to someone, dump them and buy one.

Or, keep on renting.
 
rolivi said:
I don't recall seeing airplanes anywhere in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

If you have the cash, buy one. If you have the cash and need to justify it to someone, dump them and buy one.

Or, keep on renting.
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My new wife of six years is supportive of me buying. She was terrified of "small planes" but after a few recent trips in a rented 182 she is sold on the idea.

I've already experienced the cost of spousal replacement & that expense would have bought me a King Air!
 
Nope.... Although I can fly for meetings, it had no bearing on my purchase. I bought my plane because I am selfish and don't like to share. I want to know my plane is there when I want to go. I went to the airport Monday to talk to my MX and hangar fly. Said eff it, I'm gonna go up. Went and flew some approaches and called it a day.

My plane is waiting for me 24/7 365 and I know it hasn't been put away with a hidden squawk from the last guy who didn't want to foot the bill from a hard landing or other mishap.

Right now I am debating flying to Winchester, TN for lunch....bout 2.6 hours each way tomorrow just cuz I can. Heard there as a BBQ joint near that is aight, so the probability is high that I go. When I as renting, I'd Show up at the rental and see that it's booked for an hour right in the middle of the day....crap. One hour screws my whole day of flying.

If I didn't need 5 seats in th next year, I'd prolly sell and get an experimental. The Velocity RG XL5 has my attention, but realistically I'm looking at a turbo Lance in the next year.
 
cowman said:
Whether it's justified is a matter of what it's worth to you vs what it costs you. Nobody can answer that question for you, it's entirely subjective.

You probably already understand that airplanes are money pits, just like cars. You will lose money on it. I would point out, however, that one cannot take money with them when they die. Good times, especially with family/good friends are what you will remember and what others will remember about you more than your net worth.
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Are you smoking crack?
I have owned 12 airplanes in the past 10 years and currently own 3. I have a 172, Pitts Model 12 and J-3 Cub. I think putting money in a airplane is better than money in the bank. I made a huge profit on each plane I sold. Some profits were way over double what I paid for the planes.
Why would you say a plane is a money pit? If you buy them right and not junk they will gain value over the years.
I don't think you can go wrong owning a plane... Just don't buy a old beater that needs work. Buy something unique so when it is time to sell its not just like everyone else's plane. The planes I made lots on were all aerobatic planes.
 
saddletramp said:
is that a good place to invest some capital?
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If you need or want an investment, I would not choose a private aircraft as the yield is most likely going to be negative. Maybe you used the term invest loosely however. If that is the case, it is a great place to spend retirement money!
 
Both the planes the OP mentioned, 182 and Super Cub, seem to hold their value quite well. Also both can be run relatively economically. The OP needs to decide if he wants a go somewhere plane like a 172/182 or a low and slow fun plane the a Super Cub/Champ.
 
saddletramp said:
I started flying again a few months back after a 22 year hiatus. I'm presently renting either a 172 or 182 depending on the flight.

I owned an FBO in the early 90's & had two owned airplanes, two on lease-back, & a leased glider. So I'm familiar with the costs of ownership.

I've always dreamed about owning an airplane for the pleasure of flying when I want & something to tinker on.

My current thoughts are either a 180/182 or...a Super Cub, Citabria type for local hops & renting something bigger for longer trips. I can spend $50 to $100K without borrowing but being close to retirement age is that a good place to invest some capital?

Can airplane ownership for just pleasure really be justified? Do any of you that own a plane for non-business use ever regret the decision?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts/experiences.
Click to expand...


Since you know the drill, you already know the answer. As long as you have the disposable income, yes, it's justifiable. If you don't have the disposable income, then it's best to form a multi member, multi aircraft, flying club.
 
Perhaps you missed my point.

Airplanes are as "needed" as Timeshares, Golf Clubs, Boats, Travel Trailers, ATV's, Gym memberships, Season Tickets for some BS sports team in your area, etc....

So, Need isn't a real question.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
If you need or want an investment, I would not choose a private aircraft as the yield is most likely going to be negative. Maybe you used the term invest loosely however. If that is the case, it is a great place to spend retirement money!
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:yeahthat:
 
Of course pilots don't need airplanes. But when forced to choose between a wife or an airplane, guess which one usually wins.
 
Owning a plane, driving a sports car, eating red meat, drinking good booze and having sex for pleasure isn't NEEDED either, that's said that's how I roll and life's good!
 
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write-stuff said:
Of course pilots don't need airplanes. But when forced to choose between a wife or an airplane, guess which one usually wins.
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The airplane. (meaning that the man and wife lose and the plane goes on to a happy life)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
If you need or want an investment, I would not choose a private aircraft as the yield is most likely going to be negative. Maybe you used the term invest loosely however. If that is the case, it is a great place to spend retirement money!
Click to expand...

Your smoking crack also!
When I sell my planes I can retire :)
 
I've found they hedge inflation at least, depends on your buying, selling and wrenching skills.
 
pigpenracing said:
Your smoking crack also!
When I sell my planes I can retire :)
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For most airplane owners buying an airplane is NOT an investment that will provide financial returns! Most airplane owners are not buying unique aircraft, they are buying Cessnas/Pipers/Mooneys/Bonanzas, etc. and even if some of these hold their value fairly well there are operating costs. I spend around $15K a year flying my plane and I'm never getting that money back! That being said, I don't think twice about the expense. It is what I love to do and I get immense enjoyment even when just working on the plane and talking to my hangar neighbors. For those of us who look up every time an airplane is heard it matters not that it is generally a poor financial investment. The other rewards more than make up for it.

For the OP, if you can afford it and you love flying, airplane ownership can be extremely rewarding. If you are not sure you absolutely love it then rent for a while and see how you feel later.
 
saddletramp said:
My new wife of six years is supportive of me buying. She was terrified of "small planes" but after a few recent trips in a rented 182 she is sold on the idea.
Click to expand...

What are you waiting for ?

And no, it's not an investment. Well, if it is an investment, it is a bad one. The times of appreciating aircrafts are over.
 
saddletramp said:
I started flying again a few months back after a 22 year hiat
I've always dreamed about owning an airplane for the pleasure of flying when I want & something to tinker on.

My current thoughts are either a 180/182 or...a Super Cub, Citabria type for local hops & renting something bigger for longer trips. I can spend $50 to $100K without borrowing but being close to retirement age is that a good place to invest some capital?
Click to expand...

You forgot the best of the bunch... a rag wing 48 170.
 
Go smaller for local hops, Cessna 140 or something. Big difference in price between that and a Super Cub. If you are considering Super Cubs the lower powered 2 seaters are almost free.:D
 
weilke said:
What are you waiting for ?

And no, it's not an investment. Well, if it is an investment, it is a bad one. The times of appreciating aircrafts are over.
Click to expand...

You are smoking crack also...
A 172 may not gain value. If he finds a deal on a Super Cub they are just going up in value.
Am I the only one here that makes money on planes? In the past 2 years I made enough profit to pay cash for my Model 12, J-3 and 172.....
You gotta know how to buy.
 
pigpenracing said:
You are smoking crack also...
A 172 may not gain value. If he finds a deal on a Super Cub they are just going up in value.
Am I the only one here that makes money on planes? In the past 2 years I made enough profit to pay cash for my Model 12, J-3 and 172.....
You gotta know how to buy.
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You an AP/IA?
 
pigpenracing said:
You are smoking crack also...
A 172 may not gain value. If he finds a deal on a Super Cub they are just going up in value.
Am I the only one here that makes money on planes? In the past 2 years I made enough profit to pay cash for my Model 12, J-3 and 172.....
You gotta know how to buy.
Click to expand...

If you found a 'deal' on a supercub and you are subsequently able to sell it at market value, you have benefitted from your ability to spot a good deal or to negotiate, not from movement in the market. It's like making money on short-sales or foreclosures in real estate.
 
pigpenracing said:
You are smoking crack also...
A 172 may not gain value. If he finds a deal on a Super Cub they are just going up in value.
Am I the only one here that makes money on planes? In the past 2 years I made enough profit to pay cash for my Model 12, J-3 and 172.....
You gotta know how to buy.
Click to expand...

For you to make money buying and selling airplanes someone has to lose on ownership. Not blaming you for being good at buying and selling just pointing out that you need people to lose money on planes to do what you do. If everyone was always buying and selling at lowest possible deal price you wouldn't be ahead.
 
No you do not need an airplane
 
pigpenracing said:
You are smoking crack also...
Click to expand...

If small a/c were a great or even mediocre investment for the average person, why aren't more people partaking, why don't we see a plethora of GA investment firms, a Cessna mutual fund.
I like my reality crack, you can have yours.
 
Pigpen is in a specialty niche market as well. There's always a place to make money.
 
Henning said:
Pigpen is in a specialty niche market as well. There's always a place to make money.
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I just think a airplane is a very good place to put money. Or maybe a 1963 split window Corvette. Anything you buy these days to have fun with looses value but I have not seen that in airplanes. Even if you buy just a nice basic 172 that is very clean and low time. I see that value being more in 10 years.
This guy asking the question says he has cash to buy. That puts him in a really good position. You can't call and try to get a good price on the phone because most people are tire kickers. Find a plane you really like and show up with a briefcase full of hundreds. You will be surprised how much that changes most sellers attitudes.
I buy my airplanes to keep. I always have someone wanting to buy them. Everything is for sale for the right money. I shoot a high price, if they don't want it they can walk and I will fly.
I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with money to spend on a few of my birds.
Lots of airplane people have lots of money. Those people like to sell cheap so they don't have to hassle with people.
 
pigpenracing said:
I just think a airplane is a very good place to put money. Or maybe a 1963 split window Corvette. Anything you buy these days to have fun with looses value but I have not seen that in airplanes. Even if you buy just a nice basic 172 that is very clean and low time. I see that value being more in 10 years.
This guy asking the question says he has cash to buy. That puts him in a really good position. You can't call and try to get a good price on the phone because most people are tire kickers. Find a plane you really like and show up with a briefcase full of hundreds. You will be surprised how much that changes most sellers attitudes.
I buy my airplanes to keep. I always have someone wanting to buy them. Everything is for sale for the right money. I shoot a high price, if they don't want it they can walk and I will fly.
I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with money to spend on a few of my birds.
Lots of airplane people have lots of money. Those people like to sell cheap so they don't have to hassle with people.
Click to expand...

I wish I had just a hand full of cars I bought and sold in high school working at the car lot, I'd be a millionaire. A buddy still has his 1970 440 4 speed R/T Challenger, it's appraised over $120k.
 
My wife wants a Vette in a few years when my son is older and out of here. She wants a 63 Split window or a brand new one. I told her that is a no brainer. You will loose your ass on new but gain on the 63...
 
pigpenracing said:
My wife wants a Vette in a few years when my son is older and out of here. She wants a 63 Split window or a brand new one. I told her that is a no brainer. You will loose your ass on new but gain on the 63...
Click to expand...

Yep, 63-65 coupes are always good. Personally though, if I had a Vette, I would want a track set up late model. I'm getting too old to get in and out of a Vette as a daily driver.:lol: The body just doesn't flex like it used to.;)
 
yes...you "need" and airplane....and don't let her tell you otherwise. :D
 
It's interesting that some of you brought up sports cars as an investment. That's kind of what started me thinking about an airplane.

Last summer I nearly bought a used Porsche. I was a few years old & I knew the owner. I brought it to winery & showed it to my wife while she was in the middle of grape crush. She just rolled her eyes.

Later when she got home & cleaned up I let her drive the Porsche. She loved it but said she couldn't stand riding in it for long trips. She told me she didn't care if I bought it but then said "there goes your airplane dream...I don't see you owning or affording both". I passed on the car.

I married a smart one!
 
For pleasure only.... Count me in that group.

Need a reason? Here are a few:
- your gonna die one day... If an airplane makes you happy
- flying is cheaper than drinking... Think about it.
- the Internet is pretty boring... Time to go flying..
 
saddletramp said:
It's interesting that some of you brought up sports cars as an investment. That's kind of what started me thinking about an airplane.

Last summer I nearly bought a used Porsche. I was a few years old & I knew the owner. I brought it to winery & showed it to my wife while she was in the middle of grape crush. She just rolled her eyes.

Later when she got home & cleaned up I let her drive the Porsche. She loved it but said she couldn't stand riding in it for long trips. She told me she didn't care if I bought it but then said "there goes your airplane dream...I don't see you owning or affording both". I passed on the car.

I married a smart one!
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You can however drive an older Porsche and fly an older plane. Or you could try to find a Porsche Mooney that still has a Porsche engine and get both at once.:lol:;) You can have a cool car and plane at the same time on a limited budget, sometimes you have to go outside the box though.
 
Driving through the Hamptons in the summer makes me laugh 911s are the most common car by multitudes. Every fourth or fifth car is a 911. Another broken status symbol.
 
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