I love retractable gear airplanes

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by jd21476, Nov 16, 2020.

  1. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

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    I say "positive rate, no more runway, gear up." If the runway is long enough for that to be an option. In twins, you need to get the gear up ASAP, because a clean twin can get you out of engine issues much more safely.
     
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  2. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    They all need axillary landing gear like a big fiberglass skid plate so when they land gear up the fuselage isn't scrap.
     
  3. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Just mount a bunch of roller blade wheels to the belly. Viola! Aux landing gear!
     
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  4. Maxnr

    Maxnr Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I flew a club Mooney and liked it a lot. I always wondered why the unpainted engine cowl didn't match the rest of the paint job. Eventually learned that before I joined the club, some unsupervised kid climbed in the cockpit. While he was making airplane noises, he found a big brass bar latched into the bottom of the panel. He managed to unlatch it and pull it back. He couldn't retract the mains but the free rolling nose wheel retracted just like a switch blade.
     
  5. Datadriver

    Datadriver Line Up and Wait

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    Agree, but I also concede fixed gear is cheaper, safer, etc. The DA50 looks slick
     
  6. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    When ALL the prerequisite events for gear retraction have been met: "Gear Up."

    It's not a public dissertation.
     
  7. FredFenster

    FredFenster Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I too prefer retracts. Mine only retracts two wheels though, so its a bargain at 33% off!
     
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  8. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Makes for one swift aircraft!
     
  9. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Yeah, I've used it for go-arounds and I suspect I'll us it when I go missed if I ever do the IR (need a ca$h transfusion that's unlikely to show up). That said I don't like it even one bit. Just don't like pointing the nose down when at low altitude and energy. Personally I think if you're doing that routinely you could use a change your routine. Easy enough to bring the gear up once you've got positive rate. If the engine is in such bad shape it konks out immediately thereafter I needed a new one anyway, though I can probably have the gear back out before I land.
     
  10. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    B-727 and C-172 are the only ones I’ve had to put it down with alternate methods.
     
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  11. Rockymountain

    Rockymountain Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Gear down in the air are pretty worthless, but it does simplify things a little. In addition to getting about 3 or so knots more airspeed for each gear sucked into the belly, it gives you a lot of performance options. Dropping the gear can be another source of drag to add to the propellor, speed brakes and flaps, comes in handy when ATC wants max speed to the FAF, and then you are faced with the go down and slow down dilemma. But also a safety feature. Lose an engine and have to put down in water or a muddy field, leave them up and no flippy. Hard field or pavement, put them down. Encounter moderate or severe turbulence above Va, and drop the gear to slow down, and in some aircraft increase yaw and longitudinal stability. And then the performance envelope. Coming into Salt Lake on an Angel flight in a Mirage one day, ATC had me on the downwind of International at 11,000 feet on the arrival. The norm about 15
    Miles up the arrival and 15 back in the conga line. Guess they were appreciative I was flying the Angelflight flag, and asked me if I could see the runway. Sure could. Cleared me to land from
    11K on downwind at around 200 knots. Explained to the pax, the sounds of speed brakes and gear, and that we were cleared to land and it would be a steep but safe approach. Power back to 18MP, speed brakes out gear down and a nice smooth downwind/base/final slowing the whole way while descending 2000-2500 fpm, and a stabilized 85 indicated vref on final. Saved a little time, and the pax thought it was pretty cool to get priority over the busses. So the fixed gears are sensible, but do leave a lot of performance on the table.
     
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  12. Cogito

    Cogito Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No wheel pants, easier to check air pressure. IMG_9320.jpg
     
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  13. jd21476

    jd21476 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I do positive rate gear up because if you have a really long runway you tend to drag the gear for quite a while...
     
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  14. Daleandee

    Daleandee Line Up and Wait

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    More to the serious side of this. As a Sport Pilot I presently do not have a dog in this hunt but I've read several articles over the years comparing the differences i.e. the pro & cons of fixed vs retract. Here is one example:

    From the article:
    Tom Bowen is the gentleman referenced in this quote.

    https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/why-retract/
     
  15. Cogito

    Cogito Pre-takeoff checklist

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    If you're only flying 120kts, retracts aren't needed. As parasitic drag rises with the square of velocity, there's a speed where the trade-off of added complexity begins to make sense, otherwise airliners would have wheel pants.~

    If simplicity is more important than efficiency, Cirrus, just burn a lot of fuel and you never have to worry about that aspect of maintenance or remembering to confirm three green before landing.
     
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  16. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    The hawker has a keel under the fuselage that is called the "auxiliary landing gear".
     
  17. jimhorner

    jimhorner Line Up and Wait

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    I love my retract bird.

    [​IMG]

    But this is a pretty fun plane to fly also, even though it’s quite a bit slower than my plane.

    I guess it depends on the mission.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. jd21476

    jd21476 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I saw a video the other day about the A-10 Warthog and it showed it was designed so that even with the gear retracted it can still land because the wheels stick down below the body. Amazing!!!
     
  19. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    It's also so slow it undergoes no drag penalty for having the wheels exposed. I keed I keed (sorta) :D

    upload_2020-11-17_21-12-22.png
    My personal favorite? ....They chocked it. :rofl:
     
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  20. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    Yeah. Why bother?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
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  21. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    As do most aircraft where the low mounted wing's skins is the fuel tank wall. Belly landing without it might just be a fireball.
     
  22. Rockymountain

    Rockymountain Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The Meridian actually has wheels built into the wing covered with composite. If the plane belly lands, the composite wears away and the wheels keep the wings from grabbing. With all that elegant design though, I am not aware of a Meridian landing gear up. Wonder how many Meridian drivers even know what those bumps under the outer wing are?
     
  23. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Is the center section a fuel tank too? Most jets the entire wing including the center "wing box" is all a fuel tank. Some of them have large composite fairings screwed to them and the antennas are mounted to the fairing and localized steel plates glued to the fuel tank skins to prevent antennas rupturing the fuel tank skins if those belly antennas were to be smashed up into the wing.
     
  24. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Learned something new this morning! Very interesting.
    Anybody know if Piper does the same with the Malibu piston airframes?
     
  25. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    That's a fantastic photograph!
    But I think you misinterpreted my post. It was "why bother"...retracting the gear on a high wing. ;)
     
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  26. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies En-Route

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    @Dan Thomas , I can vouch for GRG, he's one of the good ones I promise. Even has a Husky to prove it. :)
     
  27. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    I love RG as long as it’s working properly. My first was an M20 C with Johnson Bar that I would still be flying if I hadn’t injured my shoulder. As we speak my electric gear F is on Jack’s awaiting the reconditioned actuator. I wish my shoulder could still handle aJohnson bar. It’s the ideal RG system.
     
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  28. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    For the most part, I’m a positive rate, gear up guy. If I’m on more than 4,000 feet I might delay a little, but my normal procedure is off the ground, flaps up, positive rate gear up, nose over to 105 indicated and climb out like an elevator. I’m anxious to get back in my retract. I’ve had nothing to fly except the 140 for a while.
     
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  29. WDD

    WDD Cleared for Takeoff

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    I called around for hypothetical insurance quotes, and was told an Arrow 2 vs a straight legged 182 was $3,000 vs $1,500. But then I figured the fuel burn difference of 10 vs 13 gallons / hour, at 75 hours per year, X $5.00 a gallon, pretending that an annual would be about the same, and some other made up factors would make it a wash. (Yes, you can really monkey with math and make it justify things you really want....)
     
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  30. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    I don’t think you were justifying. You were simply being thorough in your analysis.
     
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  31. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Fying is absolutely cheaper than that $60 Southwest ticket.. by the time you factor in airport parking expensive snacks at the airport all the time waiting around it absolutely makes sense to spend $2,000 vs $60, you know, by the time you factor everything in
     
  32. jd21476

    jd21476 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You also have to factor in the hospital bill from the infection you'll get just touching anything on a Southwest flight. Its the Greyhound bus of the skies.
     
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  33. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Works for me, but you forgot to mention that there’s no one in that little plan breathing their germs in your face.
     
  34. WDD

    WDD Cleared for Takeoff

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    And the value of your time. And the wear on your car driving to the big airport vs the GA airport.
     
  35. Daleandee

    Daleandee Line Up and Wait

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    And ... you can't put a price on the coolness of arriving at the airport in your own personal plane! :D
     
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  36. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    If Southwest actually went to the places I want to go for that kind of money I'd use them. Door to door I'm faster if it's East of the Mississippi.

    You need a new quote. I got insurance cheaper than that in my Mooney which will leave your Arrow in the dust. Whatever rate quote, it'll come down significantly the next year when you've failed to gear up your airplane.
     
  37. WDD

    WDD Cleared for Takeoff

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    I probably don’t have near the hours and time in retract that you do.
     
  38. WDD

    WDD Cleared for Takeoff

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    Why retracts are actually cheaper
    - how to convince yourself

    When flying, the tires are retracted. Thus, less exposure to the elements, thus will last longer

    No chance of costly bird strikes to the landing gear

    No wheel skirts that can be damaged.

    Safer - you know for sure your have good landing gear with the three green lights. Don’t have that confirmation on a non retract

    If these things don’t make sense then have a few beers and just repeat over and over “ I want a retract - I look good in a retract - I want a retract ......”
     
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  39. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Pattern Altitude

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    We like ours. JF2_1818-lorez (1).jpg
     
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  40. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    This was when all my time was in fixed gear and I didn't yet have the complex endorsement. Get another quote.