I just dropped my 182P off for it’s(my) first annual

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by AlphaMike, Feb 9, 2021.

  1. AlphaMike

    AlphaMike Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well, here we go! This will be my first annual on the 182. I’ve owned the plane for almost exactly a year now (bought it right out of annual last February). I’m hoping for the best but prepared for anything. I took it to a shop that’s highly respected and known to be little on the expensive side. I really want to know exactly what I have so I expect it won’t be cheep. I put 140 hours on it since I bought it and really didn’t have any squawks. Here’s to hoping for a good outcome! I’ve been told the first annual can be an eye opening experience.
     
  2. Oldmanb777

    Oldmanb777 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Eye opening, yes. One thing to know.....If I see a plane for the first time, it takes more. I want to know that last guy didn't pencil stuff. More research is required, since I have not been involved with that particular plane before. I believe its a good thing for someone else to see a plane. Second pair of eyes might be a bit more expense. Worth it in the long run.
    Get involved in the process.
     
  3. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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    That 1st one at a new shop can be more of a unknown, paperwork with AD’s too. All the best with it.
     
  4. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    1. FTFY
    2. Would you like us to pray for your redemption from airplane ownership (or maybe your solvency)?
    3. Alternatively, would you prefer we take up a collection for you?
    4. The Airplane Owners Credit Counselling Society hotline is 1-359-367-3663 (1-FLY-FOR-FOOD)
    4. Could be far worse; be thankful you didn't listen to any of us here and buy a Bonanza. :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
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  5. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pattern Altitude

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    First year is when you start to find out about all the deferred maintenance from the previous owner.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  6. Joe_B1

    Joe_B1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Bought my archer "just out of annual" my first annual found some really scary things, glad my A&P was thorough. Good luck, hope it's an easy one for you.
     
  7. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    Half your purchase budget went to the seller and the other half went to your maintenance reserve, right?
     
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  8. Southpaw

    Southpaw Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Best wishes for a clean annual.
    I bought my 172 sight unseen and no pre inspection . But I did have a fellow take a look at the log books and maintenance records. The seller delivered it to my home base .
    First annual was just under $2000. The A&E IA flew his C172 over from across the divide, put his in my hanger, flew my plane back over the divide , annualed it ,flew it back and put it in my hanger . 3.3 hours on the Hobbs .
     
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  9. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route

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    Oh lamentations! Wailing and nashing of teeth.

    It’ll probably be fine.
     
  10. Robert W

    Robert W Filing Flight Plan

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    My suggestion get involved early I personally would tell them to just do the inspection on a agreed flat rate And they are not authorized to do any of the Repairs or buy parts Get a itemize list of discrepancies and you will go over it with them some mechanics Think they have a greenlight to do whatever they want don’t forget it’s your airplane
     
  11. AlphaMike

    AlphaMike Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Now that is customer service! He flew to you, left you a loner and delivered it back when all was done! NICE! I had to fly to my guy and have a buddy pick me up in his 172.

    The shop doing my annual has a very good reputation. (The owner was the DPE for my IR check ride) It's about a 40min flight down to them but everyone I've talked to said they do outstanding work. I was told up front they would complete the inspection first, review the findings and go from there. They plan on starting it tomorrow and would be emailing me pictures as they go. We will see. I don't mind spending money as long as I'm getting what's needed (or wanted) and charged a fair price.
     
  12. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    And deferred inspections. You know, the one-hour walkaround/logbook signing annual.
     
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  13. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Wow, you were over charged. Didn't @Tom-D say he just needs 20 mins if the inspection panels are already removed?
     
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  14. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    I was a mechanic. I was never able to properly inspect everything as per the legal minima in one hour even after the entire airplane was opened up. There's just too much to check.
    Of course, there are those that just glance at stuff, but they miss the fraying cables and stuck pulleys and small cracks starting in the usual places. They miss the nearly-failed wire terminals at alternators and magnetos (the terminals crack from vibration, the wires fray next to crimp for the same reason). They don't put some pressure on control surface hinges to get an idea of the wear. They don't check cable tensions if things look a little suspect. They don't crawl under the panel to see what the controls are doing and if wires or hoses are being chafed by the controls, or if stuff is looking like it needs some work, stuff like landing light switches with heat-blackened crimp terminals, or loose terminals on the mag switch. They don't check the brake master cylinder fluid levels. They don't jack the airplane a little to spin the wheels and see if the bearings are dry or rusted or loose. They don't try to find the source of that oil that's seeping out of the engine somewhere.

    So, without a good look and some wiggling and feeling stuff, you don't find those things that have stopped moving (like pulleys) or are worn (like hinges and cables and rod ends) or are about to fail altogether. In other words, stuff is being run to failure, which is exactly what inspections are supposed to prevent.

    A big part of the inspection time is opening up all the inspection panels and getting under the floor, which means taking seats and carpet and floor panels out. That takes time, and if one spends a couple of hours doing that, then 20 minutes inspecting, then a couple more hours putting it all back together, and some time doing the logs and ADs, I'd say that the owner is not getting the thorough inspection he's paying for. He's mostly paying for opening and closing stuff.
     
  15. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    A lot of us here would fully agree with you!
     
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  16. AlphaMike

    AlphaMike Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Dan, that is exactly what I want! I’m happy to pay for it too. Especially on my first annual. I believe the last owner took the plane to a very reparative shop in WA before I brought it here to Michigan but who really knows. The last owner definitely spent a lot of money on upgrades so I’m hopeful he didn’t skimp on maintenance. My shop will start on it tomorrow. I was told the inspection should be done by Monday so it sounds like they will definitely spend a few days on it. The owner of the shop told me that next year’s inspection will probably be a little faster because they will be more familiar with the plane.
     
  17. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    That is not inspecting, this should have already been done.
    Once again, many can't tell the difference between inspecting and maintenance.
     
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  18. jmarine225

    jmarine225 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Just got my Piper 140 back from its first annual. IA found a lot of things not properly repaired/replaced in the past. Had a prebuy done when it was purchased so I’m guessing he just basically glanced over it and said it was good. I also had the new Piper AD inspection panels completed and some other minor additions/changes I requested. All said and done, with transponder and pitot/static check, cost was $3000. IA picked up and returned the aircraft to my location. I’m located in northeast PA.
     
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  19. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

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    And some people can't read the difference in the inspection taking 20 minutes vs hours. :rolleyes:
     
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  20. Magman

    Magman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    AM. Some items are not black or white but a shade of gray.

    You may want the shop to give you a listing of just what is the shade.

    ie. Brake Discs and Pads have a minimum thickness requirement.

    So if you are close but still in spec the Annual can be signed and you can order

    and assure parts are on hand.

    They can then be installed at the next tire change or when convenient.

    Other tasks that fall in this category are ADs, hinges, seat rails, spark plugs etc.

    Many of these can be addressed between inspections.

    Airlines , MIL, Corporate all use some variation on this.

    Some Techs are not really aware that their challenge is to keep the aircraft flying

    in an Airworthy condition.

    It should be remembered that an Annual Inspection is to determine if the aircraft

    is Airworthy at the time of inspection.

    It's not a guarantee of no issues till the next Annual.
     
  21. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    An A&P-IA's job is to develop a list of discrepancies, no more, no less.
    As soon as the maintenance starts the mechanic is an A&P, not a IA.
    The trouble is many folks don't know when one job starts and the other one quits.
    Example... Wheel bearings, the wheel must be removed to see the bearings = maintenance, looking at the bearings = inspection.
    It only requires a A&P to remove the wheel/bearings.
    But it requires a IA to inspect.
    I do annuals for several A&Ps that own their own their aircraft.
     
  22. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    The problem with that is that you end up opening some stuff up twice or three times in a year. Not only does the overall cost go up, but the fasteners wear out faster, too. Better to get the ADs and SBs, most of which are 12-month or 100-hour items, in phase with the annuals wherever possible. Using practices common on commercial aircraft often isn't cost-effective on private airplanes.
     
  23. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pre-takeoff checklist

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    FTFY ;)
     
  24. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pre-takeoff checklist

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    And ignored Service Letters. But it's a good time to make a plan with your mechanic to start working your way through those SL's and other desired improvements, which ultimately results in a better airplane.
     
  25. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Better idea--- complete the ADLOG.com. and install and verify each AD.
     
  26. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    That's a good idea. I regularly found ADs that had been signed off as "carried out" when they didn't even apply due to part or serial number. Or that they didn't apply when they certainly did, and the AD was therefore still outstanding. I found lots of unaddressed ADs, mostly appliance ADs, since they don't show up on aircraft, engine or prop-specific searches. Altimeters, seat belts, wheels and brakes, stuff like that.
     
  27. Robert W

    Robert W Filing Flight Plan

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    Going fishing :rolleyes:
     
  28. Magman

    Magman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    My point is you want your IA to deal the cards to you regarding

    your future maintenance needs.

    Once you have the cards in hand you can decide how to play

    them.

    It’s always great to have parts and/or approvals in hand

    rather than wait for back-ordered parts.

    Of course; ADs should always be done when near due or

    earlier; never later.
     
  29. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yes, absolutely. But after that, at least some aircraft have additional service letters from the factory on updates that are not mandatory, but significantly improve reliability. For example, older Decathlons and Citabrias have spring gear legs secured with U-bolts that are notorious for breaking, with consequences that usually include a prop strike and spar damage. There is no AD, but a service letter from the manufacturer recommends replacement with a bar and 2 high strength bolts. These aircraft also have no breakers or fuses to the main bus or alternator field circuit; another service letter provides instructions to retrofit breakers to protect those circuits. The factory sells kits for both service letters at a very reasonable cost. I just ordered both yesterday, and plan to install next week. There are another dozen service letters of lesser importance that I plan to work through with my A&P/IA over the next year or two.

    My point being that after you fix broken stuff and meet compliance requirements, that first annual is the time to start talking with your mechanic about a plan to get your aircraft from "airworthy" to "well maintained". In my case at least, service letters are good recommendations from the factory to preempt trouble spots they have found over the years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
  30. AlphaMike

    AlphaMike Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well so far so good! They found an issue with one of the STCs. I have a new PPONK 470-50 installed at the last annual. The log books didn’t include the STC required for my Hartzel 3 blade prop. The shop in WA was contacted and agreed they forgot it. They openly admitted to the mistake and agreed to pay for the missing STC $750. Other than that. So far so good! I can’t wait to get my plane back! They told me today that my bird is in “exceptional connection “. That is such a good thing to hear! It’s almost like a parent teacher conference. Nothing like hearing how good your baby is! Hopefully the weather improves and I can fly her home!
     
  31. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    One gets so one can spot an SB that's likely to become an AD, and get the thing fixed before the AD comes out, while parts are still available.

    Even the bolts that replace those U-bolts on the Citabrias, as well as the inboard leaf bolt, have a specified service life before NDI. 500 hours, IIRC. They're a $30 NAS bolt; I think the nuts alone were $10 or $12 each or something. I carried a spare set of bolts, new nuts, and changed them out at 500 hours and sent the old ones for NDI. Same thing for the aluminum wing strut/front spar attach fittings, except they were a 1000-hour item, and IIRC that particular thing was an actual airworthiness limitation, as mandatory as an AD.