HP + complex time!

I was taught same way:
Piper Warrior/Cadet/Archer = use carb heat reactively
Cessna 152/172/182 = use carb heat proactively

You're right though, the POH or any supplemental information that supersedes the POH is gospel.

OK, here's a complex quiz for you: You're in a 182 RG. You lose your engine. You want to glide as far as possible.

A> What do you do with the prop control?
B> Do you expect it to work? Why or why not?
C> Can you feather your prop? Does it do that automatically? Why or why not?
 
DavidWhite said:
If you have no oil pressure you will not be able to make the prop a coarse pitch.
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Because the prop relies on that oil that is circulating... so basically if you can feather the prop yay, if not enjoy the drag...
 
And most CS/VP single-engines don't feather. If you lose oil pressure, it'll go to low pitch. In the case of an engine failure at altitude, it would be beneficial to pitch up to stop the prop since you can't feather to reduce the drag.
 
Z06_Mir said:
Because the prop relies on that oil that is circulating... so basically if you can feather the prop yay, if not enjoy the drag...
Click to expand...
Can you (feather the prop)? The airplane in question is the Cessna 182 RG.

I think everyone figured out A and B. No oil pressure = no prop control. It's going to go back to low pitch.

How about C? I've heard people talk about the single-engine 182 RG not feathering, so:

C1> Why doesn't it (what were the manufacturers intending)? A twin feathers, what gives?

C2> What physically (inside the prop governor) causes a propeller to auto-feather or auto-low pitch?
 
StevieTimes said:
Can you (feather the prop)? The airplane in question is the Cessna 182 RG.

I think everyone figured out A and B. No oil pressure = no prop control. It's going to go back to low pitch.

How about C? I've heard people talk about the single-engine 182 RG not feathering, so:

C1> Why doesn't it (what were the manufacturers intending)? A twin feathers, what gives?

C2> What physically (inside the prop governor) causes a propeller to auto-feather or auto-low pitch?
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Ah, you are a CFI, not someone asking question. I will let someone else answer. (I just talked about all of this fun stuff today)
 
DavidWhite said:
Ah, you are a CFI, not someone asking question. I will let someone else answer. (I just talked about all of this fun stuff today)
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nah, no CFI; just a dude who just got his complex/hp, and now I'm quizzing the OP/anyone, really. These questions are ones that made me go "ohhhhhh". My CFI just went over these things, and I thought they were interesting.
 
StevieTimes said:
Can you (feather the prop)? The airplane in question is the Cessna 182 RG.

I think everyone figured out A and B. No oil pressure = no prop control. It's going to go back to low pitch.

How about C? I've heard people talk about the single-engine 182 RG not feathering, so:

C1> Why doesn't it (what were the manufacturers intending)? A twin feathers, what gives?

C2> What physically (inside the prop governor) causes a propeller to auto-feather or auto-low pitch?
Click to expand...
Single engine aircraft do not have full-feathering props. With a failure in a twin, you have the luxury of shutting down the engine, and you still have one engine to (hopefully) get you to an airport safely. By feathering the dead prop, you reduce drag. That's why the default position is feathered, so if you experience a loss of oil (thus no prop control) it will automatically go to feathered.

Conversely, on a single, if you lose engine oil, you don't want to shut down the one-and-only engine. Your gonna want to sacrifice the engine and use it while you're still getting some thrust. This is why single-engine CS/VP props will default to low pitch and don't feather. If you lose pressure (and thus prop control), you are still producing the most power possible to hopefully bring you safely to an airport.
 
Nobody is jumping on the hints?

Double Jeopardy time: (cue music)

Do you lose oil pressure on every mode of engine failure?

What engine failure modes would leave the oil system 100% intact with zero engine power being produced?

Exactly how much oil pressure is required to keep the prop from going to coarse pitch in a single?

Where can you look it up? Can you?

Is a windmilling prop on an engine with no oil system damage, going to pump enough oil to keep a prop at full twist to stretch a glide?

What is the oil pressure working against? (What makes the prop go coarse?)

Assuming it's possible, how much does pulling the prop back on a windmilling typical single stretch a glide?

If the prop is fully twisted to the deepest angle on a single and the engine seizes instantly, will it go coarse?

Why or why not?

How long does it take?

;)

Just questions for fun. Deeper questions than the simple answers. Not 100% sure myself on all of them, but they're great "systems" questions for YOUR systems on your airplane.

Final Jeopardy: Should you care? Why or why not? (Practical application question.)
 
Nate, thanks for the dumb car analogy. I liked it, and now the concept "clicks" better for me.
 
Dalrain said:
Nate, thanks for the dumb car analogy. I liked it, and now the concept "clicks" better for me.
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Hey! If the wind calms down I'm taking my first hp ride Saturday at 9. You are welcome to sit in the back if for some reason you really want to.
 
ChrisK said:
Hey! If the wind calms down I'm taking my first hp ride Saturday at 9. You are welcome to sit in the back if for some reason you really want to.
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You'll never want to go back to burning 8 GPH ever again. ;)
 
My CFI said (joking I'm sure) "you can tell the 182 is overloaded when the tires are pushed so flat they won't turn. If the tires roll, you're good."
 
ChrisK said:
My CFI said (joking I'm sure) "you can tell the 182 is overloaded when the tires are pushed so flat they won't turn. If the tires roll, you're good."
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It's kinda true. She kinda waddles to the runway at 2950 pounds.

Of course, as an owner I actually check tire pressures. Never seen a single student or instructor on the ramp with a pressure gauge, ever, checking a rental. Can't remember ever doing it as a renter myself, either.

And the rentals don't even have the wheel pants on. Talk about easy. ;)

Here's a pop quiz for the day. The POH is missing and you need to know the tire pressure recommended for a 70's vintage 182. You're out at the airplane, at the airport, and no Internet.

Where do you look? ;)
 
ChrisK said:
My CFI said (joking I'm sure) "you can tell the 182 is overloaded when the tires are pushed so flat they won't turn. If the tires roll, you're good."
Click to expand...

I loaded mine to gross 1 time so far. I might have been 10 pounds under, but no more. She still got into the air fairly easily, but I understand the "waddle to the runway" comment! 3 adults and a bunch of crap plus full fuel will do that. Just another reason I love my Skylane.. oh and the 10.6 gph we burned doing 150kts :yes:
 
The trick question answer is: The placard in the glove box.

Seriously. It's in there. ;)
 
Most people never even open the glove box, let alone notice there's a placard in there. ;)
 
tonycondon said:
no placard in the glovebox on ours...
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The placard in the glove box of the Bonanza has instructions on how to descend through a could deck if you are a VFR pilot trapped on top. Really. Like you're gonna open the glove box and read it then?
 
SCCutler said:
The placard in the glove box of the Bonanza has instructions on how to descend through a could deck if you are a VFR pilot trapped on top. Really. Like you're gonna open the glove box and read it then?
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I looked at a Bonanza that had that in there, kinda gave me a chuckle.
 
SCCutler said:
The placard in the glove box of the Bonanza has instructions on how to descend through a could deck if you are a VFR pilot trapped on top. Really. Like you're gonna open the glove box and read it then?
Click to expand...

ROFL, that's awesome. Maybe they figured when you got scared enough you'd reach in there for a barf bag? :)
 
Finished this today! 2.9 hours logged, both HP and complex endorsement completed. I have to say that, though there are a couple of extra things to keep in mind, it really wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. As my instructor set my expectation that it would take 5 hours, I was thrilled to finish it in under 3. He even told me that he knew he'd sign me off after I finished my second flight.

Time to find a CAP IP and start working on a CAPF5.. that is if I don't end up as Sandy relief... =)
 
ChrisK said:
At about 85 hours including 18 XC, with a little right and back seat time in some high performance and hp + complex aircraft over the last months, and I think it is time. My club has a couple 182RGs for about $146/hr wet, and my CFI and I went over the ground stuff. I obtained a POH, made my checklists (and marked / edited / reprinted from CFI comments).

Instructor said to expect about 5 hours of dual to get the endorsements, after which I will have access to PIC some other aircraft, not to mention keeping things interesting!

I won't be able to rent 'em solo until I have 200 hours total time and IR, but that is fine with me. I am looking forward to cutting time off of my family trips eventually!

I am a little apprehensive about an aircraft that beefy and do not expect the transition to be easy. I am studying the POH and the chapter in the AFH particular to the subject (not to mention my newly constructed checklists) to make the transition hopefully go a little better.

Any tips? While I understand that not everyone thinks getting this endorsement this early is a good idea, I am ok with it. I have no intention to stuff my family in the back and fly on a trip until I get a lot more experience. I still plan on taking passengers and other pilots in 172 XCs while I am building experience.

Pretty exciting!
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Please, you can buy your own insurance in the plane with 25 in the plane and a PP regardless TT. Your club is being ridiculous with those requirements. There is nothing at all difficult about flying the plane.
 
My insurance company required 20 hours dual and 50 in type before I could carry passengers. After the 20 hours I could be solo or with a CFI that met their "requirements". The 200 hours of TT and and IR have little to do with flying the airplane. I'm about halfway through my IR and still below 200 TT and although an IR can be handy, it's not a requirement to fly a 182RG safely.
 
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