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Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Maui Cirrus CFII, Dec 31, 2016.
a fun one
you're killing me Maui!
How much effect does slipping and skidding have on these things?
Was the Carrier buried under the runway you landed on?
Next up -- Landing a Cirrus on Mars! (mostly you'll need the AoA to increase your endurance, right?)
Yup as soon as I realize there was no carrier landing I departed!
Most planes land on a carrier... you must be some expert to land in one.
Much to my chagrin, I need to ask a serious question.
Since the Pitot tube is generally on the left wing, why isn't the AoA probe mounted on the right wing?
On many experimentals an integrated AoA and Pitot is used, mounted on the left wing.
My installation is separate probes, but both on the left wing. The AoA is about 3ft outboard of the pitot. (Was there when I bought the plane)
Never really thought much about it, but my curiosity has been piqued.
Guess carriers don't have center lines.
My wife gets testy when I start making cracks about the centerline being out of service during her landings.
Your pilot in the video made a few errors in describing the pattern. I don't really get worked up over who posts what where because I'm not obligated to click on anything. I am also an advocate of flying AOA. But, your posts here are fairly annoying and misleading. I'm not sure where he gets the 4 seconds of separation between aircraft, that doesn't really ring a bell for me. Maybe I misunderstood him though. The downwind altitude is 600ft, not 800. And, it isn't quite accurate to say that Navy pilots only fly AOA. Certainly, it is primary and an essential part of landing on the carrier. But it is wrong to promote the idea of GA pilots only flying AOA and saying that this is what the Navy pilots do landing on the carrier.
On downwind, every pilot performs an on-speed check the verify the accuracy of the AoA guage. Then in the approach turn airspeed is, or at least should be, included in the scan. The AOA indexer only tells you fast or slow or on-speed, it it doesn't give you magnitude beyond 3-4kts. Referencing airspeed is an important part of evaluating the energy state of the aircraft and critical in knowing what the jet will do when you roll wings level. You will necessarily carry extra knots in the turn, but how many extra is going to make a big difference in what the jet does on roll-out. In that case, the pilot is using AOA but also referencing airspeed. When he talks about meatball-lineup-AOA, that only applies once you've "called the ball" and are under LSO control. So, at that point you could say that you are technically only AOA, but in reality (at least at night time) you are referencing your power carrot to detect acceleration or deceleration. In addition, the LSO controls your speed at that point. He will direct you to fly faster or slower based on what he observes outside the aircraft. AOA can fail, so the pilot isn't only trusting the indexer coming aboard the ship. There are other measures in place so that his life isn't depending on AoA vane not sticking. If I was more inclined, I would link to a video where a Navy pilot was killed because his AoA indexer was stuck.
The owner of the Part 135 outfit accused all us pilots of learning to land over in Japan cause we were left of centerline.
Because us lowly GA pilots are simpletons who couldn't possibly understand the advanced concepts of an old dude landing on a Aircraft Carrier that looks EXACTLY like an airport?
I'm going back to school.
-- LOLULIM-IC PNUAR EGTL
who paints what he sees
Paddles is always right!
Guys also "influence the nose" with fwd/aft stick motion more than Paddles or the LSO school will admit to……in other words the black and white axiom of power=glideslope, pitch=airspeed isn't so black and white. I'm personally a fan of mild "hornet DLC". If you are a little high in close, hold the power (eliminates spool up delay from the motors) where it is and waggle the wings to kill lift. You have to be careful, but it is a good fix for working down a high ball if you know what you are doing. Other jets (think F-4, RA-5C, F-14, S-3, maybe others) had actual DLC which had the same effect, though more controlled. In a more convoluted way, that is what "magic carpet" is doing with the flight control surfaces and FBW inputs if I understand the implementation correctly (have yet to fly with it).
The 4 second interval probably comes from the standard shore based 4 second break (though there are many different "standard" field overheads). At the ship, I'll break as a guy is just a little behind the left wingtip. If I'm following something slower, i.e. a Super Hornet, I'll error a little more towards the leading edge of the left stabilator.
Haha...I remember when that was called "Intruder DLC"
You are correct, sir.
when the bottom falls out
Is the Super just slower in the landing config or cruise speed as well? I was thinking the Super with more thrust and variable intakes was suppose to make it faster than the Legacy. Larger profile drag overcome those changes?
And this caused coffee to be shot out of my nose. About the time I got myself together I scroll down and see the cirrus floating down under chute towards the carrier.
I was just starting to get mad at myself for the time I will never get back from skimming these AoA threads...those two posts made up for it.
well, since a carrier can do 35 knots- and you can easily see 10 knots of wind over the bow - and a Cirrus can land at 60 knots or slower- there is ZERO reason why you could not land a Cirrus on a deck with only 15-20knots of relative groundspeed - if you can't stop in 400' something is wrong. . .
I was just speaking to the landing configuration. It just has a huge amount of lift generating area comparatively, and giant trailing edge flaps, thus a slower approach speed…..actually, the stabilators alone are damn near the size of the wings on a Hornet. The canted pylons on the Super Hornet hurt cruise speed, but otherwise it is about the same as the Hornet. The inlets are actually fixed, just like the Legacy (though obviously of different shape/design).
Land IN a carrier?
Not a cirrus, but...
Turkey is my least favorite. You should be banned.
I wasn't wondering if it tells you whether you're coordinated or not. If you aren't, one of the wings is going to stall before the other. The high wing when slipping and the low wing when skidding. If this thing is mounted on one of the wings, then it tells you what that wing is doing, not the other one. I was wondering if the fuselage interfering with the airflow, or the sensor going kind of sideways through the relative wind would make much of a difference.
Easy solution for @luvflyin that I'm sure Maui wowie will love: BUY TWO!
And if you've got a bi-plane you'll need FOUR.
Why didn't I go into sales... (oh, because I'd end up pan handling)
Is there a link to get the operating manual online?
You don't do a whole lot of slipping in jets...
This could be yuge, who needs an F18 or F 35 when you can just use an Cirrus. I think 6pc needs make an informational video and send it to the pentagon.
Here ya go http://www.iflyaoa.com/pilot-resources.html
That was poor English on my part. What I should have said was jets have them on both sides to negate any relative wind effect.
I have to ask. What's up with the fingerless gloves? I've flown in Hawaii and I don't recall ever being cold.
USAF T38 instructor training video
AoA protection on A320
I can understand why.
Some of my colleagues have had to dig equipment out of the snow on Hawaii. There are some real altitudes there.
Somewhere deep in the archives, I have a photo of a snowplow with Hawaiian plates.
Random videos. I learned something from the T-38 vid though. Do not fly optimum approach AOA all the way to the ground. You'll crush your gear.
I didn't watch the videos but I think the T-38s touch down 10-25kts below donut speed. Landing at donut speed would eat up a lot of runway as well. Navy jets and the C-17 land on-speed, I don't know of anyone else who does that though there may be some others.
What is the speed of on unglazed donut?