How to file for doing approaches at home drome

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
KDTO right now is marginal VFR with OVC14.

If I desired to take advantage of this and shoot some approaches here in the clouds, what do I file on my IFR flight plan so ATC knows I'm staying "at home" and doing the ILS and RNAV a few times?

Something like:

DEPT: KDTO
DEST: KDTO
Remarks: Multiple approaches for IFR currency. First will be ILS18.
 
I've done this and just called ground/clearance, told them I wanted to shoot appraoches, and they handled everything. I didn't file anything.

I guess I'm not sure if they prefer you handle it any certain way, but that's what my instructor had me do, no one seemed to take issue with it.
 
I've been told that filing a flight plan with the departure and destination airports identical causes ATC's routing computer to freak out, so I usually just file to another local airport, and advise ground/clearance delivery what I'm actually planning to do. I add "training flight" in the remarks section when I remember.
 
Yeah, what fiveoboy said. If you want to actually file or need to file IFR to get out, I think you have to put some kind of Navaid in, else it won't go through. For me, I have a VOR on field, so if I do file for some strange reason, I'll file:

KSRQ
SRQ
KSRQ

remarks: multiple practice approaches at KSRQ, no star no sid.

If it's VFR or MVFR someone on ground can sometimes help out.
 
You could file with a route that includes an IAF to an approach you want.

KAAA to KAAA direct would make anyone freak out.
 
I'd probably file to a vor or waypoint and back

Depart KPSP, Destination KPSP, via PSP (vor), remarks: multiple practice approaches at KPSP.
 
Caramon13 said:
Yeah, what fiveoboy said. If you want to actually file or need to file IFR to get out, I think you have to put some kind of Navaid in, else it won't go through. For me, I have a VOR on field, so if I do file for some strange reason, I'll file:

KSRQ
SRQ
KSRQ

remarks: multiple practice approaches at KSRQ, no star no sid.

If it's VFR or MVFR someone on ground can sometimes help out.
Click to expand...

Missed that post, yeah that.
 
MAKG1 said:
You could file with a route that includes an IAF to an approach you want.

KAAA to KAAA direct would make anyone freak out.
Click to expand...

Unless your going to central Illinois. ;)
 
I file nothing. I radio clearance delivery for the nearby Class C airport, and I ask for a "local IFR clearance for approaches at KXXX." They give me a squawk and a clearance right away. There's no info shared regarding hours of fuel, souls on board, etc. It's just as easy as asking for flight following in your local practice area.

That should work if your airspace is controlled by a Class C approach/departure controller. I don't know if it will work if you're in a more remote location that is controlled by a center.
 
Each of the different answers are correct for where the pilot is. The answer for you depends a lot on where you are.

You pretty much can't go wrong anywhere with a flight plan that has your base listed as both the departure and destination, with at least one waypoint in between, whether another airport or navaid or intersection.

But in some parts of the US, you don't need to. A call to CD (or Ground if there is no dedicated CD) for a "local IFR" (or the local equivalent) will take care of it.

Unless you get a chance to speak with someone in your area who knows the local process, stick with the HOME - WPT - HOME or, even better, call the facility that handles approaches and ask them.
 
Thanks all. On a VFR day, just working with the tower only is good because of how "practice" approaches are done. But with much of what I might have done today being I. The clouds, I know I'll need to work with Regional Approach and be on an IFR plan.

As far as putting a fix in the routing block, could I use the LOM for our ILS? And then get with approach about either vectors or full procedure or whatnot?
 
As Mark said it varies with the facility. I'd just call ground at DTO and tell them what you want to do and they can probably coordinate with regional approach and maybe even get you your clearance. Or they might have you call Regional clearance from the ground? I still don't think you need to file anything. Once you're off approach will know what you want for your first approach and then from there just let them know subsequently what you want to do, same as VFR practice.... Each time you can just coordinate with them if you're wanting to start the approach at a particular fix or just get vectors.

If they want you to do it a different way, they'll tell you. Don't hesitate to call the tower at DTO and ask them the best way to work it. They like it when you do that and then there's no question.

PS, let us know how they work this, I'm curious what the differences are from my home airport.
 
Sadly I can't do repeated approaches at my home drone, but anywhere else, I'd file a flight plan departing the home airport with the destination as the IAF, with "PLA" in remarks (practice low approaches). When I pick up the clearance I explain what I plan on doing.
 
AggieMike88 said:
KDTO right now is marginal VFR with OVC14.

If I desired to take advantage of this and shoot some approaches here in the clouds, what do I file on my IFR flight plan so ATC knows I'm staying "at home" and doing the ILS and RNAV a few times?

Something like:

DEPT: KDTO
DEST: KDTO
Remarks: Multiple approaches for IFR currency. First will be ILS18.
Click to expand...

That works fine barring computer routing issues (which are easy to solve).

The only thing I'd say is we see about the first 18 characters (including spaces) in your remarks so I'd see Multiple Approache. Trim remarks to Mult Prac Apchs or similar. You'll have to say the approach rundown anyway. The short hand "We'll be at this a while" is a good key for us to ask you the rundown when we have time for you to tell.
 
Only 18 characters, eh? Didn't know that. Since nothing in the various electronic flight plan filing systems imposes that limit (or reminds us of it) I thought we could add what's needed to advise the controllers of what we are doing.
 
Yeah I've always put "multiple practice approaches" in the remarks, controllers have always known what I'm doing. It's good to know that for other notes though so one can truncate them.
 
AggieMike88 said:
KDTO right now is marginal VFR with OVC14.

If I desired to take advantage of this and shoot some approaches here in the clouds, what do I file on my IFR flight plan so ATC knows I'm staying "at home" and doing the ILS and RNAV a few times?

Something like:

DEPT: KDTO
DEST: KDTO
Remarks: Multiple approaches for IFR currency. First will be ILS18.
Click to expand...

You need a route and "direct" won't cut it. The ATC computer will reject it because there's no distance between your departure and destination. I'd go with "direct PINCK direct". It will appear to ATC as KDTO.PINCK.KDTO.

Remarks should be short and abbreviations used when possible due to the space available on the ATC strips. IIRC there's only 25 characters available on terminal strips and 40 on center strips. Your remark above would be shown as "MULTIPLE APPROACHES FO***", the three asterisks indicate the remark has been truncated. The controller can get the full remarks with a flight plan readout but you could just shorten it to "MULT APCH" and get all the pertinent info across.
 
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bradg33 said:
I've been told that filing a flight plan with the departure and destination airports identical causes ATC's routing computer to freak out, so I usually just file to another local airport, and advise ground/clearance delivery what I'm actually planning to do. I add "training flight" in the remarks section when I remember.
Click to expand...

That's not quite true. A flight plan with the departure and destination airports identical and with just "direct" as the route will be rejected by the ATC computer as there's no distance between them. Pop a fix in there and it's fine.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
As Mark said it varies with the facility. I'd just call ground at DTO and tell them what you want to do and they can probably coordinate with regional approach and maybe even get you your clearance. Or they might have you call Regional clearance from the ground? I still don't think you need to file anything.
Click to expand...
When you call for an IFR clearance without filing, you are asking for a pop-up, same as if you were in the air. With a difference - the one in the air might be because the pilot is encountering marginal conditions. That's not something that is an issue on the ground.

There are definitely facilities that will refuse a ground-based "pop-up" even for local flights and and tell you to go file a flight plan yourself. Just as there are Towers that won't coordinate VFR flight following for departures and TRACON and Center facilities that will refuse flight following requests based on workload.
 
roncachamp said:
You need a route and "direct" won't cut it. The ATC computer will reject it because there's no distance between your departure and destination. I'd go with "direct PINCK direct". It will appear to ATC as KDTO.PINCK.KDTO.
Click to expand...

This is basically the same thing I was told by a briefer when filing a plan back during my IFR training. He suggested picking a local fix or intersection, putting a remark about multiple approaches, and then advising ATC of my intentions when airborne. I don't know whether that's the best approach, but it worked fine from my end.
 
midlifeflyer said:
When you call for an IFR clearance without filing, you are asking for a pop-up, same as if you were in the air. With a difference - the one in the air might be because the pilot is encountering marginal conditions. That's not something that is an issue on the ground.

There are definitely facilities that will refuse a ground-based "pop-up" even for local flights and and tell you to go file a flight plan yourself. Just as there are Towers that won't coordinate VFR flight following for departures and TRACON and Center facilities that will refuse flight following requests based on workload.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. Reinforces the idea that calling the appropriate facility is a good idea as not all airports have the same procedures.
 
MAKG1 said:
Just curious....

If you file IFR, is it really a practice approach?
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As much as doing landings over and over are practice landings. It gives ATC a clue that you'll be with them for a while, and explains a requested routing back to the departure airport.
 
Brad Z said:
As much as doing landings over and over are practice landings. It gives ATC a clue that you'll be with them for a while, and explains a requested routing back to the departure airport.
Click to expand...

I normally ask for "multiple IFR (or VFR) approaches." It lets them know I'm doing several for practice and if an IFR clearance is needed.
 
Approach_controller said:
The only thing I'd say is we see about the first 18 characters (including spaces) in your remarks so I'd see Multiple Approache.
Click to expand...

roncachamp said:
Remarks should be short and abbreviations used when possible due to the space available on the ATC strips. IIRC there's only 25 characters available on terminal strips and 40 on center strips.
Click to expand...

Thank you, gents.
 
File to a fix on the approach,with final destination at the landing airport. When you are talking to the controller,then request multiple approachs.
 
MAKG1 said:
Just curious....

If you file IFR, is it really a practice approach?
Click to expand...

If it's VMC and the pilot elects an IAP over a VA, I'd say they're doing it for practice. If it's IMC and the pilot elects to do several approaches, I'd say that's for practice as well.

In the military we file IFR (DD-175) and enter a terminal delay (D 0+15) for practice approaches. Used to have P-3s and C-17s in our pattern for hours at a time...IFR the entire time.
 
I'd do what Velocity recommends. File to PINICK in your case, with a 30 min delay and provide a quick explanation in the remarks. I got my IR out of a non-controlled field and that's how we did it.
 
roncachamp said:
That's not quite true. A flight plan with the departure and destination airports identical and with just "direct" as the route will be rejected by the ATC computer as there's no distance between them. Pop a fix in there and it's fine.
Click to expand...

ATC accepted my plan filed direct with identical departure and destination. This was the expected routing I received:

"N5687Q (M20P) has just filed a flight plan. It is scheduled to depart from West Memphis Muni (KAWM) at 08:30 CDT Monday heading for West Memphis Muni (KAWM) for an estimated arrival at 08:41 CDT.

Expected route: KAWM001001"

It looks like the ATC computer inserted a fix on its own?
 
Rwsavory said:
ATC accepted my plan filed direct with identical departure and destination. This was the expected routing I received:

"N5687Q (M20P) has just filed a flight plan. It is scheduled to depart from West Memphis Muni (KAWM) at 08:30 CDT Monday heading for West Memphis Muni (KAWM) for an estimated arrival at 08:41 CDT.

Expected route: KAWM001001"

It looks like the ATC computer inserted a fix on its own?
Click to expand...

The controller did it.
 
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