How much airplane can you get for $1,000 monthly budget?

easik

easik

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jun 24, 2017
Messages
235
Display Name
Display name:
easik
I am currently looking to buy a plane in 15k - 25k price range. Initially I was going to pay outright. But I've also been looking at financing. If I went that route and set a budget of $1,000 per month max (this includes payments for the plane, hangar or tie down, insurance, maintenance etc).
How much airplane can I get?

Here are my general requirements:
Mission - 50 - 300 miles
Payload - at least 400 pounds to be able to carry a passenger
Flight rules - VFR. IFR a plus
Performance - Can cruise at least 100 mph on hot days

Thanks!
 
I'd think most 2 or 4 place older planes would fit you budget and your mission: Cessna 150s, Piper Cherokee 140, Piper Tomahawk, Piper Tri-pacer, Beech Sport, plus a few tailwheels like Aeroncas, Stinsons, etc.

Of course, if you live in a very-high-demand hangar area, that could throw your budget off.
 
$1k/mo, with a loan payment, will be pretty tough if you want to fly it very much. A single maintenance event could very quickly blow your entire budget (a couple times over). If you exclude maintenance, I think $1k/mo is pretty doable depending on loan terms and hangar costs at your airport (that's probably about what I spend on my twin, not accounting for maintenance or longer trips).
 
When you say 400 lb payload are you talking useful load minus full fuel? Lots of planes out there that meet that criteria.
 
Last edited:
My Grumman:
$150 hangar
$700 annually insurance
first annual is next week. I'm told to expect $800 - $1500 lets call it 1500
I have done 2 oil changes ($100)
I flew 70 hours last year and burned $2520 in fuel

I drink 7.761 GPH
Cruise at 115 kts
Useful load is 860 lbs

So if I never fly the plane, my monthly expenses are ~$350 / month.
Add the 70 hours of flying and monthly cost is now $560 / month.

I do have a note on my plane which means I have an additional monthly fee but that is not what you were asking but I am well under your numbers for a plane I can fly my family around in.\

I do not pay myself an hourly fee to fly or to put towards mx. A lot of people do that, I just pay for mx needs as they arise.
I did spend $1500 getting a fuel tank resealed last year. That stuff is going to happen.

I believe you can find plenty of planes in your monthly budget.
 
easik said:
I am currently looking to buy a plane in 15k - 25k price range. Initially I was going to pay outright. But I've also been looking at financing. If I went that route and set a budget of $1,000 per month max (this includes payments for the plane, hangar or tie down, insurance, maintenance etc).
How much airplane can I get?

Here are my general requirements:
Mission - 50 - 300 miles
Payload - at least 400 pounds to be able to carry a passenger
Flight rules - VFR. IFR a plus
Performance - Can cruise at least 100 mph on hot days

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Had a uncle who said never finance liabilities/toys. That being said

Grumman AA1
Cessna 120/140/150
Stinson 108 (better bang for the buck utility and looks wise too)
Aeronca Cheif or Champ
Taylorcraft
Piper tripacer or pacer
Wittman tailwind (fastest here)


Hangers depend on location, mx also depends on how hands are you are willing or able to be, fuel also can depend on a mogas STC.
 
James331 said:
mx also depends on how hands are you are willing or able to be
Click to expand...
along with the color of the airworthiness certificate.

But, having said that, don't expect engine / landing gear parts to be any lower cost even with a pink ticket. Cost of airframe parts varies with how good you are at fabricating.
 
My numbers:
220/mo hangar
750/yr ins (62.5/mo)
120/2yr altimeter test (5/mo)
180/2yr BFR and physical (7.50/mo)
300/yr owner assisted annual (25/mo)
~300/yr maintenance (25/mo)

Total before flying: 345/mo

My plane cost about twice what you are looking for, does the mission you are looking at and is paid for. I use about 7.5 gal/hr of a mix of mogas and avgas. I have a ~650/mo pension cut out that is deposited into a separate account and I use a designated credit card for plane purchases. This year I'm replacing the audio panel and two radios for just under 8k so my monthly cost this year will be greater but amortized over the next few years and it goes down.

One more note, I could keep the plane at a tiedown for allot less but the insurance is less in the hangar and the owner assisted annuals couldn't be done at a tiedown.
 
In the last 2 years I've averaged 800 a month on my mooney for 180 hours of flying. That includes some instruction time as well.

Of course, that's before I factor in the major overhaul I'm doing right now. The numbers will be a lot worse after that.
 
Kansas Flyer said:
When you say 400 lb payload are you talking useful load minus full fuel? Lots of planes out there that meet that criteria.
Click to expand...
Right. With full fuel, I'll like to have some 400 lbs of useful load left.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My Grumman:
$150 hangar
$700 annually insurance
first annual is next week. I'm told to expect $800 - $1500 lets call it 1500
I have done 2 oil changes ($100)
I flew 70 hours last year and burned $2520 in fuel

I drink 7.761 GPH
Cruise at 115 kts
Useful load is 860 lbs

So if I never fly the plane, my monthly expenses are ~$350 / month.
Add the 70 hours of flying and monthly cost is now $560 / month.

I do have a note on my plane which means I have an additional monthly fee but that is not what you were asking but I am well under your numbers for a plane I can fly my family around in.\

I do not pay myself an hourly fee to fly or to put towards mx. A lot of people do that, I just pay for mx needs as they arise.
I did spend $1500 getting a fuel tank resealed last year. That stuff is going to happen.

I believe you can find plenty of planes in your monthly budget.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I've looked at the Grumman but really the 2 seater A1 but I see you're flying the A5. Whats been your general experience so far owning the airplane? and how did you come down to buying that specific model? If you don't mind sharing please. Thanks.
 
tawood said:
I'd think most 2 or 4 place older planes would fit you budget and your mission: Cessna 150s, Piper Cherokee 140, Piper Tomahawk, Piper Tri-pacer, Beech Sport, plus a few tailwheels like Aeroncas, Stinsons, etc.

Of course, if you live in a very-high-demand hangar area, that could throw your budget off.
Click to expand...
Yea, what's potentially my home airport has a hangar waiting list, and I've heard they also have the most expensive rates in the state. If I can't get an hangar in the $150-$250 range, I may have to settle for tie downs.
 
A nice Tri pacer could fit your needs.
 
I have a Grumman Tiger and have owned it about 2-1/2 years. I plan on 10 gph fuel burn at 135 knots true. Insurance is reasonable at $500 per year but I have lots of flight time. I agree with a $1500 annual expense. My useful load is right at 900 lbs and the plane holds just over 300 lbs of fuel.

The Grumman Tiger is a fast, fixed gear, fixed pitch prop aircraft that cruises as fast or faster than many airplanes with retractable gear and constant speed props. At optimum altitudes I’ve seen 139 knots true which is right up there with an older Mooney, Piper Arrow, Beech Sierra, and C182. And my maintenance and insurance cost is much less than more complex aircraft.

The Grumman Cheetah is the same airframe but with a 150 hp or 160 hp engine instead of the 180. They are a bit slower than their 180 hp brother but still faster than most other 150 hp aircraft. Either one would make a great 1st airplane that still has good cross country speed.

Living in Texas, being able to taxi, take off and climb with the canopy open is a HUGE benefit in the summer, plus it just looks cool!

If you are on a tight budget you might consider a shared ownership situation instead of owning one on your own. With older airplanes, someting always pops up that will require attention and money.
 
easik said:
Thanks. I've looked at the Grumman but really the 2 seater A1 but I see you're flying the A5. Whats been your general experience so far owning the airplane? and how did you come down to buying that specific model? If you don't mind sharing please. Thanks.
Click to expand...

You're looking at twice the money for a A5 vs a A1, you'd be much better off getting a nice A1 over a ragged out lower price A5, you'd also be less drama and nonsense being the sole owner of a A1 vs a partner in a A5.
 
I don't think the AA1 will have the useful load the OP needs.

Sounds like a Cherokee 140 is the most likely option. Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, cheap to fly and has the performance needed.
 
Find partners and you can get a lot for that kind of money.
 
RV-12.

Prices are down some; a nice one with the D180 panel and a couple hundred hours TT can be had in the low 60s. Full fuel payload over 400#. Cruise at 115-120 K depending on how much gas you want to burn. I generally cruise at 110-115 TAS burning around 5 GPH of mogas. This year we need to inspect & overhaul the carbs, so we'll spend probably $500 or so on the condition inspection. And you get a nice modern panel with GPS coupled autopilot. There isn't a lot of baggage space, but enough for two roller bags plus a little.
 
easik said:
Thanks. I've looked at the Grumman but really the 2 seater A1 but I see you're flying the A5. Whats been your general experience so far owning the airplane? and how did you come down to buying that specific model? If you don't mind sharing please. Thanks.
Click to expand...

My experience has been great but I am only 1 year in.
I prefer the idea of being the sole owner and this plane gave me that option.
The only downside to the Grummans is they feel kinda flimsy on the ground where as your pipers and beeches feel like tanks.
Maybe that is why they are a touch faster. I flew a Warrior last week and was surprised that my traveler was quicker.
I like that the Grummans come standard with shoulder harnesses on all seats.
The back seats fold down to give you somethign like 6 feet of cargo space.
Mine has the smaller tanks so I can only carry 36 gallons of fuel but that's 3.5 hours w/ 30 min reserve.



I wanted a tiger (still do) but at my price point, they were slightly out of reach.
The traveler is the same cabin so the only thing I am giving up is 20 HP.

I have the benefit of access to a Cirrus when I want to go really fast so speed was not much of a concern.
I love the Grumman. It flies nice, it's responsive, I like low wing planes and I hate that most only have 1 door.
The canopy makes it a breeze to get in and out.
Also flying with it open is a plus.

At some point, I will end up upgrading to something with a lot more (Autopilot, GPS, glass, etc) and I hope to find it in a Tiger.
For now the Traveler is my gateway drug to that future Tiger.

For whatever reason, I found that Travelers were significantly less expensive than the Tiger at the time of my purchase.



Also in my plane, if you cut me off, I can flip you the bird and it is more visible than most other planes. That's important.

SnapShot(18).jpg
 
I fly a PA32T well equipped. $1k/mo does not get me off the ground. Hangar, insurance, state property tax, annual reserve and a $450 note. Flew 60 hours last year and racked up just over $20k in "bills" that I can actually account for. I just stopped counting. It's easier to gulp down a smaller bill one at a time than look at them annual. I'd probably stop flying if I did that.

Buy a cheap ass airplane, barely legal and fly the snot out of it. Take it from me.........You buy "more" plane than you really need and are on a budget, you will end up not flying more often than you think.
 
easik said:
Yea, what's potentially my home airport has a hangar waiting list, and I've heard they also have the most expensive rates in the state. If I can't get an hangar in the $150-$250 range, I may have to settle for tie downs.
Click to expand...
My mechanic states that here in Michigan, "Everyone pays for a hangar. You either pay up front, or pay later with paint jobs and extra repairs." I'm not sure where you are at, but maybe there are other satellite airports you could consider if a hangar is important to you.
 
How many hours a year do you plan on flying? For a 1000/month you could join a nice club. That helps offset the costs of problems plus will get you in a bigger plane for your buck.

I’d love to own a plane. Just don’t fly enough...yet...
 
$1K a month is way above the maximum cost of belonging to our club. $60/mo plus tax for the fixed expenses, then hourly rate for the planes. You'd have to fly a bunch to spend $1K/mo. No way do I ever come close. I've been a member for 18 years and can't really justify buying.
 
Ghery said:
$1K a month is way above the maximum cost of belonging to our club. $60/mo plus tax for the fixed expenses, then hourly rate for the planes. You'd have to fly a bunch to spend $1K/mo. No way do I ever come close. I've been a member for 18 years and can't really justify buying.
Click to expand...
but having the keys on your ring.....is priceless. ;)
 
I'll stick by what I said on your video Mike - older Cherokee 180 or Warrior or a cheaper Grumman. The Grumman Tiger has similarities to the Diamond you trained on, only it handles better. A higher UL Cheetah could be the ticket here too. Warrior fuel burn at near Archer speed. Your mission on less than 30 gallons, so lots of reserves and can fill to tabs.
 
I’m just completing my first year or owning a Tiger. I have done some upgrading: ADS-B and transponder. I have had some MX that could be expected and some unexpected. I paid cash but have spent another $10K on my wishlist and repairs. I am now licensed (I did all my training in my Tiger) and now IFR. I tie down at least until I get past my IFR rating. It is a GREAT plane but we are talking about planes that are 40 years old. There can/will be suprise costs.
 
Ghery said:
$1K a month is way above the maximum cost of belonging to our club. $60/mo plus tax for the fixed expenses, then hourly rate for the planes. You'd have to fly a bunch to spend $1K/mo. No way do I ever come close. I've been a member for 18 years and can't really justify buying.
Click to expand...

I'm in the process of moving. The club I'm leaving is much the same way. $55/mo, fly as much as I want.
$1K/mo is a lot of flying.
It's great because there's always a plane available when I want.

The club in the new town seems to be much busier, and I'd have trouble finding a plane when I want.
Now, even though it'll be much more expensive, I'm looking to buy.
I put my budget at $1k/mo also, put an expense spreadsheet together, and the only way I can make it work is with 1 partner.
Otherwise, I'd be close to the $1K without ever flying...or only fly a few hours.
 
I’ll run down some numbers on my tiger which I have owned for 3 years.

Hangar cost $10,000 owned
Association fees $400 per year
Owner assist Annual with local Grumman knowledgeable I/A $300
Haven’t done any repairs etc since owned, only oil changes and fuel.
Insurance $800
They are a very simple plane from a mechanical/engineering point of view

Up coming ads-b, transponder approx. $4000-6000
 
Last edited:
easik said:
I am currently looking to buy a plane in 15k - 25k price range.
Click to expand...
I was looking to buy in at 25 but ended up closer to 35.

For me, fixed cost (round) numbers are:
$500/mo loan payment
$100/mo tiedown
$100/mo insurance

I had always been very price conscious when renting and shopping for club planes. I originally thought that buying would allow me to fly even more economically. I did not anticipate that buying a plane would make me want to spend even more on the thing. Pride of ownership, I suppose.
 
Last edited:
Looks like a great deal BUT, no mention of logbooks, no mention of date of last overhaul, no mention of compressions. Might be a good deal, might not. Need more info and in depth logbook review.
 
1RTK1 said:
I’ll run down some numbers on my tiger which I have owned for 3 years.

Hangar cost $10,000 owned
Association fees $400 per year
Owner assist Annual with local Grumman knowledgeable I/A $300
Haven’t done any repairs etc since owned, only oil changes and fuel.
Insurance $800
They are a very simple plane from a mechanical/engineering point of view

Up coming ads-b, transponder approx. $4000-6000
Click to expand...
What was the initial purchase price? Tigers I see listed are selling between 45k-$70k
 
Here's ya some grummans.

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1252927_1974+Grumman+AA-1B+.html


https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1370922_1973+Grumman+AA-1B+Yankee.html


https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1056163_1971+GRUMMAN+AA1A+.html


https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1370620_1972+Grumman+Yankee+160hp+conv.html


Dude this is a traveler for 12k
It has no wings. Gary Vought is a grumman guru and just posted in the grumman group that he had a set of traveler wings he isn't using. Free to whoever wants them. A traveler for 12k and a bit of mx....

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1368055_Grumman+AA5.html

You could buy it and flip it.

Screenshot_20180605-063421.jpg
 
Last edited:
easik said:
I am currently looking to buy a plane in 15k - 25k price range. Initially I was going to pay outright. But I've also been looking at financing. If I went that route and set a budget of $1,000 per month max (this includes payments for the plane, hangar or tie down, insurance, maintenance etc).
How much airplane can I get?

Here are my general requirements:
Mission - 50 - 300 miles
Payload - at least 400 pounds to be able to carry a passenger
Flight rules - VFR. IFR a plus
Performance - Can cruise at least 100 mph on hot days

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Maybe an old ragged out 172.
 
I budget $900/month for my twin. Those are costs before flying (hangar, insurance, gps subscription, IFR cert, a recurring AD, and swag on the annual). Over the last 3 years, costs have been about half that, but this year’s annual and a big 1000-hr AD should result in my numbers averaging out to my budgeted number. I don’t budget for fuel or oil. Additional unplanned mx has been about $2100 over those three years, plus I just did the ADSB upgrade with a new transponder.

With 1 AMU per month, you have LOTS of options! I recommend that no matter what you choose, just go ahead and plan on sticking all of that money in a separate bank account, whether you plan to spend it or not. Just consider it spent regardless...things WILL come up and it’s a lot less stressful if the money is already there.
 
Unit74 said:
I fly a PA32T well equipped. $1k/mo does not get me off the ground. Hangar, insurance, state property tax, annual reserve and a $450 note. Flew 60 hours last year and racked up just over $20k in "bills" that I can actually account for. I just stopped counting. It's easier to gulp down a smaller bill one at a time than look at them annual. I'd probably stop flying if I did that.

Buy a cheap ass airplane, barely legal and fly the snot out of it. Take it from me.........You buy "more" plane than you really need and are on a budget, you will end up not flying more often than you think.
Click to expand...
This approach works for me, last year I spent $9100 for hangar, annual, maintenance, insurance, gas, oil and flew 150 hours. Out to the midwest. Twice.
 
I have to say; I'd never really looked at a Grumman 4 seater until suggested in this thread. That AA-5 is looking very attractive right now. I'd checked out an AA-1 but I'll be passing on that, stall speed's a bit on the high side for me. Thanks guys.
 
easik said:
I have to say; I'd never really looked at a Grumman 4 seater until suggested in this thread. That AA-5 is looking very attractive right now. I'd checked out an AA-1 but I'll be passing on that, stall speed's a bit on the high side for me. Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

Stall speed on the AA1?

Are you going to be doing backcountry STOL competitions with the plane?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top