How many have no intent on IFR rating?

[SixPapaCharlie]

I think it is something I may do later in life.
I agree with the being on top. I have been lucky enough to get on top about 4 times and it is absolutely beautiful and no camera in the world can do it justice.

I work from home as needed and have a lot of flexibility with my current job to reschedule when I am where so if I do get stuck, It wont hurt me from a job perspective. May hurt the wallet (hotel costs) and bored kids but they have it good they deserve to be bored every now and then

Last year we wanted to go to Fredricksburg on Sat Morning. It was supposed to be IFR in Dallas so we left Friday night and flew to Georgetown (cheaper hotel). It was my first long night flight and it was a great experience. We landed and explored G-Town.

In the morning it was IFR we said if it stays this way we will just stay here again, no biggie. Soon it went MVFR I called Gillespie and they said it was VFR and ceilings were rising We did a bit of scud running. Maybe not a good idea but we flew field to field zig zagging to fredricksburg. Suddenly, this massive hole opens up in the clouds and we just flew in circles in this 8-10 mile hole in the clouds up and down and all over. It was beyond beautiful. While we were playing it completely burned off and we went on and had a great time.

This year we were going to go to Austin for a weekend but it was IFR south of here so we flew to Tulsa instead.

I guess the point is we had weather and we worked around it. we are in a position to play it by ear. She runs her own business and I am just lucky I have my flexibility.

I have been telling myself I need to get this IFR rating and I have the king IFR course and I started looking at it and also reading the instrument flying handbook and honestly I just thought that this is not interesting to me at all.

I think my 2014 goal will be get HP, complex, and tail-wheel.
My 2015 goal will be go to Osh (if it can be done VFR )

Side note. I am really surprised by the responses on this thread. I really thought there would be a lot of people who had gone X years w/o it. A lot of people here have it. I thought it would be more 50/50.

 

[Vf6cruiser]

Had a buddy who owned a third interest in a Hawk XP IFR........he couldn't wait to get the IR.....that is until he made a run from LGB to MRY in some nasty december weather. Beat up by turbulence, sick passengers........by the time he got to MRY he was ready to get out and walk. So the moral of the story is.........after you get the rating......so you CAN fly in the nasty stuff........the question becomes will you WANT to? I'm a fair weather flyer, and haven't missed the rating at all.......check the weather and take your best shot. One more downside here in SoCal......if you file IFR be ready to take the LONG way home.......they route you all over the place here.

 

[ja_user]

Lets not confuse an IFR rating with wanting to spend 3 hrs in the soup on a XC...

 

[mjburian]

I had my PPL for almost 7 years to the day before getting my IR. For a long time, I felt exactly as the OP. No need for it and not having it limited my weather options, thereby making me "safer" (ie, if it's not CAVU, I'm not going because I don't want to get stranded).

Oddly, the only two times I got weathered out were near the end of IR training and shortly after getting the ticket.

What finally got me to commit to the training was the aspiration to get my CFI (and now, CFII). So as much as I still feel pretty (overly?) conservative with respect to weather, I've definitely become a more precise pilot and know my airplane better. Even if you never launch into a cloud, I feel getting the instrument rating is worth the time/expense* involved to get it. You'll be better capable of flying in good weather AND would have a deeper understanding of instrument procedures on the off chance you happen into a scenario where it could save your life.

* My Dad is my instructor, so that saved a bit of money... but I'd still think it would be worth it if it cost me an additional $900 or so.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Lets not confuse an IFR rating with wanting to spend 3 hrs in the soup on a XC...

Elaborate.

 

[ja_user]

Elaborate.

Well there are various aspects of weather, and many of us although fully capable of flying 3 hrs in the soup would rather just use the IFR rating at both ends to get on top into the cool smooth air.

Flying in bumpy Cumulus, and staying IFR for 2-3 hrs really isn't as fun of a trip. But the IFR rating will let you bust through a 1-2k foot layer and get on top, and then if needed shoot an approach on the other end...

Never get in a hurry to get anywhere, but an IFR helps if you have a lower layer or if it is just bumpy down low.

It also makes MVFR days fairly uneventful .

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Also for what it's worth, I never felt like VFR ticket limited me to CAVU

 

[geneseib]

Just curious how many have flown for years with only VFR and no plans of getting IFR. Have you regretted not getting it?

I have been VFR only for 37 years. Works for me.

 

[ja_user]

Also for what it's worth, I never felt like VFR ticket limited me to CAVU

Those are fun days, whether (Pun) flying IFR or VFR... Longer XC's it is less of a concern if it becomes solid, if you have a bit more options though.. Either way, that is some fun flying.

 

[JHW]

....so you CAN fly in the nasty stuff........the question becomes will you WANT to?...

depends on your definition of "nasty".
here's 2 pictures taken from the same plane on the same flight. VFR on the left, IFR on the right. Which one looks like "nasty stuff" ?

 

[MarleyW]

I think along the West coast (dunno about the other side of the country) it is really helpful if you ever want to fly to one of the many oceanside airports with any reliability, there is a very consistent marine layer of fog that pushes inland for a few miles along the entire coast. Also I just started IR training and it is super fun, I love flying the needles, it feels so cool!

 

[asechrest]

For the foreseeable future, I'll be a VFR-only pilot. However, I've considered the IFR rating as a required stepping stone to my CFI rating. I can see myself teaching after retirement, which is a long way off (30+ years).

 

[RV10flyer]

Side note. I am really surprised by the responses on this thread. I really thought there would be a lot of people who had gone X years w/o it. A lot of people here have it. I thought it would be more 50/50.

Like the poster above mentioned...Some that fly vfr only(like me) may feel like they are less of a pilot.

All of us should be proud of our own accomplishments. It takes some guts to leave Earth behind no matter what rating or craft you utilize.

 

[ja_user]

A lot of people here are not exactly representative of the rest of the Pilot community as a whole.. 1st off, they actually try to communicate with other pilots.. Even if only online...

 

[mjburian]

Also for what it's worth, I never felt like VFR ticket limited me to CAVU

In case that was in response to my mention of CAVU, I was exaggerating slightly. I generally set my personal mins at 3000' ceilings and 5 mi viz.

Now my personal mins are down to 1000 and 3. Where I used to avoid MVFR flight, now I'll go up on those days on an IFR flight plan (maybe even to practice some approaches). Still pretty conservative since I'm rated for 200 and 1/2, but the intent isn't to see how low I can go, it's to be comfortable and proficient at whatever level I set as my mins.

I'll continue training and may continue to lower my personal mins, but not because I feel any need to do so. It'll all depend on how proficient I feel, knowing that I tend to be more conservative on my own than I've otherwise demonstrated with an instructor onboard.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Like the poster above mentioned...Some that fly vfr only(like me) may feel like they are less of a pilot.

All of us should be proud of our own accomplishments. It takes some guts to leave Earth behind no matter what rating or craft you utilize.

That is kind of how I feel. When I hear someone has their instrument rating I feel like I used to when I met a pilot and I would say "I fly RC planes"

So stupid... I'm a pilot and that's kickass!
And I totally fly the siht out of RC planes

 

[JHW]

a lot of the value of the IFR rating is the ability to keep the plane upright in reduced visibility (or at night). So why look at it as all-or-none ? You can get some instrument instruction in controlling the plane without pursuing the rest of the knowledge needed for a checkride. Just like you can get some basic aerobatic instruction without the goal of becoming a competitor. Some people just want to fly as a personal milestone and never pursue it past solo. There is nothing wrong with any of those scenarios. The only one you have to impress is you.

 

[ClimbnSink]

That is kind of how I feel. When I hear someone has their instrument rating I feel like I used to when I met a pilot and I would say "I fly RC planes"

So stupid... I'm a pilot and that's kickass!
And I totally fly the siht out of RC planes

Simple solution just become a helicopter pilot and make all the fixed wing pilots feel inadequate.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Simple solution just become a helicopter pilot and make all the fixed wing pilots feel inadequate.

Wait, I thought helo pilots were pilots that couldn't pass the airspace questions

 

[mjburian]

a lot of the value of the IFR rating is the ability to keep the plane upright in reduced visibility (or at night). So why look at it as all-or-none ? You can get some instrument instruction in controlling the plane without pursuing the rest of the knowledge needed for a checkride. Just like you can get some basic aerobatic instruction without the goal of becoming a competitor. Some people just want to fly as a personal milestone and never pursue it past solo. There is nothing wrong with any of those scenarios. The only one you have to impress is you.

This was the approach I had planned to take. I wanted to be comfortable getting out of a bad situation if I somehow managed to get into one (but definitely didn't go looking for them). Once I realized I'd need my IR to step beyond to CFI at some point, it became a necessary evil in my mind. I grudgingly began training "knowing" that I'd never file/fly IFR, because it seemed like I was adding risk to an equation that didn't need it (I fly 100% for fun, with no "need to fly" days or trips).

Somewhere along the way, my confidence went up (IMO, as a result of my knowledge and ability getting better) and I filed and flew in the clouds a month after getting the rating (had to go up to 6000 though, because the overcast was at around 4500). I still don't see myself using it to shoot approaches to minimums without an instructor on board, but having the training and (hopefully) staying current and proficient will continue to make me feel safer.

And, truthfully, I was surprised at how much I learned early on about the numbers for my plane. Pre-IR if I was asked to fly a certain profile I'd get there eventually. Now it's second-nature to set the power and pitch and just know it's going to do what I want (or be reasonably close if not a "standard" flight profile). And that's a great carryover because less time spent adjusting power/pitch = more time for other things (like eyes outside) while flying VFR.

 

[mjburian]

Here's what I'd do:

1) Talk Mrs. 6PC into getting her PPL.

2) Go up for 10-15 hours with a CFII and get the basics down.

3) Fly with Mrs. 6PC as your safety pilot for 20ish hours.

4) Get back with a CFII for "finishing school" where you'll tighten things up to PTS standards and get signed off for the checkride.

20ish hours of instruction and an IR for you, a PPL and some right seat time for Mrs. 6PC and everyone's happy!

Or... just keep doing what you're doing. It's obviously working as you guys sound like you're having fun and getting up in the air.

 

[Theboys]

I fly quite a lot and do fly Vfr at least half the time. However there are many times I'm going somewhere and weather pops up. I will usually get pop up ifr or land and check weather and file ifr. The rating reduces my insurance rate yearly by the amount it cost me to get rating plus. Then there are times like later this week I will file and fly ifr because of long trips and high altitude. One trip is maybe 700nm and next day about 1100. I will fly somewhere between 16000 and 25000 on at least one of those.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Here's what I'd do:

1) Talk Mrs. 6PC into getting her PPL.

2) Go up for 10-15 hours with a CFII and get the basics down.

3) Fly with Mrs. 6PC as your safety pilot for 20ish hours.

4) Get back with a CFII for "finishing school" where you'll tighten things up to PTS standards and get signed off for the checkride.

20ish hours of instruction and an IR for you, a PPL and some right seat time for Mrs. 6PC and everyone's happy!

Or... just keep doing what you're doing. It's obviously working as you guys sound like you're having fun and getting up in the air.

We are having a blast!

And if I were going to drop $ on something I would spend it on her PPL before I would spend it on me getting a rating.

I think Mrs 6PC will get a PPL at some point. Money is the biggest issue as it is definitely a want and not a need now. I predict in 2-4 years we will be fighting over logging PIC time.

once she gets a PPL, it will be easier to try and work a plane into the budget too

 

[mjburian]

We are having a blast!

And if I were going to drop $ on something I would spend it on her PPL before I would spend it on me getting a rating.

I think Mrs 6PC will get a PPL at some point. Money is the biggest issue as it is definitely a want and not a need now. I predict in 2-4 years we will be fighting over logging PIC time.

once she gets a PPL, it will be easier to try and work a plane into the budget too

Sounds to me like you might want to start budgeting for his and hers planes. ;-) (Don't let her near yours, though. I saw the research she was doing in that photo you posted of her reading.)

 

[Mrs. SixPapaCharlie]

We are having a blast!

And if I were going to drop $ on something I would spend it on her PPL before I would spend it on me getting a rating.

I think Mrs 6PC will get a PPL at some point. Money is the biggest issue as it is definitely a want and not a need now. I predict in 2-4 years we will be fighting over logging PIC time.

once she gets a PPL, it will be easier to try and work a plane into the budget too

 

[RussR]

I see all these posts along the lines of "given the type of flying you do, there's no reason to get an instrument rating". Well, I suppose that could be true, but my question of everyone is the reverse - "Why WOULDN'T you want to get an instrument rating?"

Even if you never use it to fly an ILS to minimums, you never know. And I don't think anybody will argue that it doesn't make you a more precise pilot. Even if you don't maintain currency.

Now, I'm not an idiot, I know this flying thing is expensive. But many of the answers weren't like "I want to get it, just can't afford it right now, but in a few years I hope to", they were more like "don't bother".

Maybe I'm unusual. Aviation and flying and aircraft fascinate me. I want to learn as much about flying as I can. If I go for more than a year or two without getting SOME kind of training I start itching to do something - I feel like I'm wasting time and opportunities, and like my brain isn't being exercised. So I go out and learn something - if that means a new aircraft checkout, a new endorsement, rating, whatever, I'm all for it. Usually it's combined with a Flight Review (even if it's not time for it yet). If I'm going to do something (like flying) I'm going to try to do it well and learn all about it.

As a CFI, I've flown with pilots who have been Private Pilots for 20 years, over 1000 hours, and are having a good time flying, so nothing wrong with that. But they also haven't been getting any kind of training other than Flight Reviews every two years. Their skills, while passable, certainly aren't any better than they were after their checkride 20 years ago. And their knowledge is similarly dated or forgotten. This is a shame, they've had 20 years to become better pilots but presumably have had no desire to do so. I remember one who couldn't maintain altitude within 200-300 feet, and similar on heading. He was just wandering randomly around the sky in the general direction of his destination. I couldn't help thinking to myself "what has he been doing all this time?" Now, my point is not that they should have necessarily gone and gotten an instrument rating, but more that they didn't pursue any additional training that wasn't strictly required.

I think learning new things is fun. And if it's useful, even better. An instrument rating is certainly new and useful, so don't rule it out completely - maybe table it for a little while until you have the time and means to pursue it. Or get some other training in the interim (endorsements and such maybe) - even if it's more hood time or basic "Stage 1" instrument instruction stuff without going all the way.

Keep learning!

 

[ClimbnSink]

I see all these posts along the lines of "given the type of flying you do, there's no reason to get an instrument rating". Well, I suppose that could be true, but my question of everyone is the reverse - "Why WOULDN'T you want to get an instrument rating?"

Because it is painfully boring. I agree about keep learning, thankfully there is so much cool non instrument flight to play with. Heck I'd get a balloon rating before IR, and I don't like mornings.

 

[Henning]

Like I said before, study, learn, (Dutturi's website seems to be popular) but go fly for a while and do some really long flights that span several states, this will give you a feel of how an IR can affect your flying. I have had an IR for over 20 years and have used it only on a few score occasions. Most of the time I stay below layers because one of the biggest things that keeps me flying is the view. That said, the occasions I have used it, it has been very handy indeed.

The weather doesn't always act as forecast, I took off from FT Wayne IN to ST Louis on the first leg home of my first cross country I left on from Long Beach CA right after getting my PP, I was in an Arrow II. The forecast was CAVU for my route all day. Around Indianapolis a couple puffily clouds formed below me, within 5 minutes I was heading for the deck through the last hole in the layer before it closed up and got underneath. The skies got darker and ceiling lower as I flew next to I-70. By the time I got to St.Louis I was around 100'. I knew that the runways for Parks butted up to the highway and exactly where so I wasn't concerned about finding the field. When I called them with my location, they responded they couldn't see me on radar and asked if my position was correct. I told them that's what the highway signs said. He laughed and cleared me to land. That was my first foray into low level cruise flight lol, I've had over 1000 hrs of it since.

Those are the situations where I am glad to have an IR, I don't really have to worry about getting trapped on top, and has been my primary use of it along with a few punching through and getting out when I needed to make a schedule. The real key though is to get excellent training and put in the effort to make it work. That way it sticks with you. When I do an IPC, the majority of my Instrument flying in the last decade, I still do just fine. I thank my CFII, Satan, for brutalizing my during training. IR is NOT about fun, IR is about staying alive and getting there when things quit being fun.

 

[momalley]

I intend on using an airplane to travel for work. We have about 112 locations, all within a 5 hour drive or a 2 hour flight from my airport. Having the ability to bust through a layer or travel through light IMC is the difference between being able to do this or not being able to do this.

 

[PPC1052]

That is kind of how I feel. When I hear someone has their instrument rating I feel like I used to when I met a pilot and I would say "I fly RC planes"

So stupid... I'm a pilot and that's kickass!
And I totally fly the siht out of RC planes

My step-brother-in-law (wife's step-sister's husband) is an RC pilot. I have taken him flying in a real plane and he loves it. I have let him take the controls, and he has had a blast. I have tried to fly his planes, and I suck at it. Fortunately, he's more tolerant of me crashing his plane than I am of him crashing mine. Flying those RC planes is HARD.

 

[rbridges]

Like I said before, study, learn, (Dutturi's website seems to be popular) but go fly for a while and do some really long flights that span several states, this will give you a feel of how an IR can affect your flying. I have had an IR for over 20 years and have used it only on a few score occasions. Most of the time I stay below layers because one of the biggest things that keeps me flying is the view. That said, the occasions I have used it, it has been very handy indeed.

The IR has been great for me. I cancelled lots of trips when I didn't have it. Being a dentist, it's very costly to get stuck somewhere and having to cancel a day of patients. I still check the forecast, but the IR gives me a lot more flexibility for weekend trips.

 

[PPC1052]

I have been doing my IFR training at a fairly slow pace, and have really enjoyed the training, and I am definitely enjoying seeing the overall improvement. I went flying last week for the first time with my CFII in over two months because our schedules had conflicted so much. But even though I was rusty, I wasn't having any difficulty performing to an acceptable level. The flying part is a lot of fun. Even though I can't see out, it's kind of like a puzzle to me. The first time I flew an approach (ILS) in actual, and broke out with the run way is something I will never forget. It's more vivid than my first solo. If you take it slow and steady, and not in lieu of the VFR flying that you really enjoy, I think you will find it has its own rewards.

When I first started my IFR, I was so lost as to what it was about that reading the texts, and watching the King's videos didn't really connect with me. I didn't have the proper frame-work for the material to stick to. As I got further into it, it all started to click. Maybe that is part of the problem you are experiencing with the King's videos. Given what you have said about yourself, I would just start with going up with a CFII once or twice a month to work on hood work. As you get better, you can then branch out and start doing approaches, etc. As you do that, the King's videos will start to make more sense because you will understand the context. As someone else said, you don't necessarily have to complete the IR to get massive benefits. At some point, you might find yourself close enough to say, why not just finish it up. If not, well, you have learned something and improved your skills.

 

[eman1200]

My step-brother-in-law (wife's step-sister's husband) is an RC pilot. I have taken him flying in a real plane and he loves it. I have let him take the controls, and he has had a blast. I have tried to fly his planes, and I suck at it. Fortunately, he's more tolerant of me crashing his plane than I am of him crashing mine. Flying those RC planes is HARD.

is he RC-VFR or RC-IFR?

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

is he RC-VFR or RC-IFR?

I flew an RC plane into a cloud one time. It was really stupid.
It survived but it came out of the cloud somewhere I wasn't expecting.

 

[Twin_Flyer]

Like I said before, study, learn, (Dutturi's website seems to be popular) but go fly for a while and do some really long flights that span several states, this will give you a feel of how an IR can affect your flying. I have had an IR for over 20 years and have used it only on a few score occasions. Most of the time I stay below layers because one of the biggest things that keeps me flying is the view. That said, the occasions I have used it, it has been very handy indeed.

The weather doesn't always act as forecast, I took off from FT Wayne IN to ST Louis on the first leg home of my first cross country I left on from Long Beach CA right after getting my PP, I was in an Arrow II. The forecast was CAVU for my route all day. Around Indianapolis a couple puffily clouds formed below me, within 5 minutes I was heading for the deck through the last hole in the layer before it closed up and got underneath. The skies got darker and ceiling lower as I flew next to I-70. By the time I got to St.Louis I was around 100'. I knew that the runways for Parks butted up to the highway and exactly where so I wasn't concerned about finding the field. When I called them with my location, they responded they couldn't see me on radar and asked if my position was correct. I told them that's what the highway signs said. He laughed and cleared me to land. That was my first foray into low level cruise flight lol, I've had over 1000 hrs of it since.

Those are the situations where I am glad to have an IR, I don't really have to worry about getting trapped on top, and has been my primary use of it along with a few punching through and getting out when I needed to make a schedule. The real key though is to get excellent training and put in the effort to make it work. That way it sticks with you. When I do an IPC, the majority of my Instrument flying in the last decade, I still do just fine. I thank my CFII, Satan, for brutalizing my during training. IR is NOT about fun, IR is about staying alive and getting there when things quit being fun.

+1

 

[F01LA]

my question of everyone is the reverse - "Why WOULDN'T you want to get an instrument rating?"

Honestly-- I didn't like training much. Maybe my primary instructor wasn't a good match. I've enjoyed aviation all my life, and thought learning to fly would be fun and challenging. PPL training was challenging, and I did well, but it was not very fun. I found that things were much better when I got to fly and learn on my own. My checkouts and flight reviews since then have been pretty good. I just think pursuing the instrument rating would take the fun out of flying again for awhile.

I would like to get some time in the clouds with an instructor sometime; That would be beneficial.

 

[Silvaire]

I've been flying for 45 years and in that time I've done a couple of coast to coast flights, California to Oshkosh, back country strips in Idaho and Montana, all over the west, down to Mexico and a trip to Alaska and back - all VFR. Nowadays I've returned to my roots and just fly my 90 hp Champ as I complete the restoration on my 85 hp Luscombe. The POH for the Champ has a section on IFR which simply states "Do not enter clouds with this aircraft"

Now there are many old guys out there like myself for whom flying was never about getting someplace to do something else, it's always just been about the flying and an IR was never something we pursued or desired. You may be that type of person but as has been pointed out, that doesn't mean you can't partake in any of the training aspects. There are a great number of benefits to it and doing it with the mindset of not pursuing the rating takes a lot of the pressure off and makes it more enjoyable.

So that's my advise. If you later change your mind any training you have accomplished will all be on the plus side.

 

[bqmassey]

If you're a stay-local, bore-holes-in-the-sky flyer who never flies cross-country, you probably won't get much use out of it. If you do plan to fly yourself places in an airplane, and the aircraft you regularly fly just happens to be instrument certified, you'd probably find an IR helpful as some point. This is true even if those trips aren't on a tight schedule and nothing important depends on them. It just gives you more options.

For example, it's easy to find yourself in a situation where you can see just fine, but can't fly legally in Class E due to proximity to clouds. I've been in that position before. Had a beautiful day, but there was a broken layer hanging out kind of low. I had to stay in Class G so I could operate clear-of-clouds. I would have preferred to be at a safer altitude in Class E, but couldn't have maintained 2000' clearance on the sides, and didn't have holes big enough to legally climb through them to get on top.

An instrument rating doesn't mean you have to spend a lot of time in the clouds. But having the ability to occasionally operate under Instrument Flight Rules instead of Visual Flight Rules can be really helpful.

You may be that type of person but as has been pointed out, that doesn't mean you can't partake in any of the training aspects. There are a great number of benefits to it and doing it with the mindset of not pursuing the rating takes a lot of the pressure off and makes it more enjoyable.

So that's my advise. If you later change your mind any training you have accomplished will all be on the plus side.

Sage advice, there!

 

[Fredbob711]

When we go to war with Russia or China and the satellites get shot out of the sky, vor is going to be looking awfully good.

Except the GPS satellites are in Geosynchronous orbit and the only anti-satellite weapons deployed have been for LEO satellites.

Considering how difficult it is to get a satellite to that altitude in the first place, I imagine a pinpoint strike to knock the satellite out of commission would be significantly more difficult.

Localized GPS jamming is much easier and cheaper.

 

[Henning]

Would it require a pinpoint strike, or could you send a nuke up as high as you can and fry them with an EMP pulse?