How long do I wait?

Discussion in 'Technical Corner' started by Rushie, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    Its been 45 minutes. Is it still doing anything?

    IMG_0021.JPG
     
  2. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Turn it off, then back on. Master reset! That's what we'd do with the CRJs, hence the nickname "Reset Jet". You're welcome! ;):D
     
  3. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    Well I did that already and that led to this but I'll try it again..... and thank you!:D
     
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  4. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That's what I'm here for! ;):)

    Plenty of experts here, hopefully they can help ya.
     
  5. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    Probably. Is the HDD light flashing? Are you patient enough to let it sit overnight?
     
  6. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    It was flashing now it's steady and yes I could let it sit all night.
     
  7. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    If it's lit, let it sit.
     
  8. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    So it's 3:00am and I woke up and can't go back to sleep and I saw this thing shut itself down and restart and now I have the exact same message again. So apparently it's doing something. Should I let it sit another 7 hours?
     
  9. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  10. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

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    By the time it's done you could have gone to Best Buy and bought a Mac, set it up, and been on your way to never worrying about that again.
     
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  11. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    Well hallelujah. Woke up at 8:00 and the thing has booted! "If it's lit, let it sit," I'm going to have to remember that one.

    Actually it was from 5:00 last night so that was a full 15 hours. Good Lord. Maybe it is time to get a new laptop.
     
  12. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    How old is this one?

    Some Windows updates take quite literally hours on older machines, but the best rule is let them keep working. Plug it in, preferably to a UPS so even if the power goes out it can continue (and your internet modem and router are on UPS, right?).
     
  13. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    This machine is six years old. Windows 7 Professional. My internet modem and router are on UPS of course but I'm not at my house. This laptop isn't connected to any internet. Is that why it's mad at me?
     
  14. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    C
    Could be. It’s shouldn’t try to install the updates until it’s git the whole update downloaded though.
     
  15. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    been thru this a few times, there is a problematic update that needs to be sorted otherwise u get stuck in the same endless reset loop,

    updates leaves a history of which ones are successful & which ones fail, one of the fails is causing a reset in the update process

    u can end up with an update/revert to square one loop that goes on & on, that can also end up hanging/stuck, then the only way out is thru the power button, which should only be a last resort
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  16. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    At the very least, max out the RAM and swap in an SSD. That may just be enough to breathe a bit of new life into it.
     
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  17. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Come on over to the Mac side.
     
  18. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    if u try the update again & the same issue comes up, it will have be sorted out first to then have a successful update
     
  19. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    anticipation......

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Yep, pay more for the same performance, whilst undergoing the terror of learning a new operating system, and finding out that much of your software isn't available in Apple format, so you end up running Windows on your Mac.
     
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  21. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    All of you are right. When I shut it down to come back home it took a full 24 hours to boot the next time. So I did a restore point farther in the past and now it is up but with the message that system restore failed. It's going to keep doing this every time I shut it down. I think it's time to call my tech people and/or ship it off to them. Debating whether to try going in and manually uninstalling updates but not sure it's worth the time and I might just make things worse.

    I think I will also decide whether to upgrade this machine or buy a new one. Not sure about going over to Mac, I truly hate Apple but I also truly hate Microsoft so what to do.
     
  22. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    goog what comes up in your first post for win7 'failure configuring windows ..etc'
    a quick look will guide u which way to go

    what led to or was going on prior to the failure? everything good then acted up on a recent update? when it goes thru hrs & hrs of an update revert, usually it's a yuuuuge update

    the issue is usually 1 update that fails to the extent of stopping the update & reverting

    u need to sort out the failed update, sometimes it can be a quick simple fix but can turn into hrs & hrs of pia

    i'd also do some tests on the status of the hard drive
    CrystalDiskInfo 7.7.0
    Standard Edition

    https://crystalmark.info/en/download/#CrystalDiskInfo

    free hd tune here
    https://www.hdtune.com/download.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  23. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Rushie

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    Thanks for this! What was going on was I had not turned the machine on in a few weeks so I'm sure it was attempting a huuuuuge update. Maybe I'll try to find the failed update myself.
     
  25. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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  26. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    Turns out I'm having internet disconnects again. That might be what is causing the failures. I called my tech support and he said Windows does need to be connected to the internet while configuring. I was able to confirm this here:

    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...-updates/7c804c41-deb3-4309-9ee6-008503ef1035

    He also said yes, windows can sometimes need many hours to finish updates. Well that just sucks. Looks like I'm not going to fix this problem until I fix my %#!&$! internet problem.
     
  27. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    are u setup to update automatically?

    there are 3 main update options, 2 that give u control over the process & allow some diagnosing

    chose - Download Updates but Let Me Choose whether to Install Them
    https://www.lifewire.com/windows-7-automatic-update-3507018
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  28. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    My paid management package handles the windows updates in batches, so I can't make these changes. It performs maintenance once a week and they are responsible for all my AV and internet security and updating everything, cleaning disks, etc. I called him again and he worked on it remotely and verified that it seems the problem is the dropped connections. But in the middle of his remote session the dang internet cut out and has been out ever since. I'm writing this now using my phone's hot spot.

    It looks like I'm dead in the water until the internet get fixed.
     
  29. Spring Ford

    Spring Ford Pre-takeoff checklist

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    #FIRST#

    If you are having update trouble, before running ANY further updates you need to check the integrity of the operating system files with.

    sfc /scannow

    in an administrator command window.

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb...er-tool-to-repair-missing-or-corrupted-system

    If sfc reports errors that it cannot fix you will need to fix them before trying further updates.

    Not sure about Win 7 but on Win 8 onwards

    dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth

    was a good start -

    If success reported re-run sfc /scannow.

    You can probably eventually fix any and all problems with dism but if you are paying for someone to do it a re-installation is likely to be the most economical action. Or scratch that, a new computer if yours is an old one:)

    I can't recall exactly but sfc /scannow can sometimes need more than one pass. If it says it fixed some stuff but not everything I think you should run it again until you get the same messages twice in a row.

    These tools can take a long time to run and appear to get stuck for a while from time to time - deliberately vague, it's really the best I can do:)

    ###

    #SECOND#

    My understanding is that Windows does not need to be online to INSTALL updates.

    It needs to be online to download them but not for the subsequent installation process.

    ###

    I too am on windows 7 on an old laptop.

    Some recent updates took hours and hours. Left overnight, done. Can require several reboots with long update cycles on each.

    I would have great difficulty re-installing my laptop and if necessary I would leave it for 24 hours at least before turning it off.

    Turning the computer off when it is doing updates feels like a really, really, really bad idea to me.

    I while back I was in a team that supported about 500 Windows 8 tablets. We did a terrible unprofessional job and had endless trouble with updates. Our team was not allowed to fix the root cause of the issues due to corporate politics. We had to use the provided Windows Images - full stop.

    Eventually a magic fix appeared for the update thing.

    WSUS Offline Update

    This is a free third party tool that downloads all the update files from MS (say 4GB worth) and then uses them to ram the appropriate updates into Windows. We were doing update runs that were installing 200 updates which often failed after all night.

    It doesn't care about anything - it just goes. Sometimes more than one run with reboots required.

    WSUS had 100% success rate and much less time was needed and the time was predictable. GREAT SOFTWARE.

    Of course you are downloading software from the internet with all of the possible security implications inherent in that in this modern age. If I needed it I would use it.
     
  30. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    Wow, that's very helpful. Yes I am running Windows 7. The microsoft website says you are correct it doesn't need the internet to INSTALL but it might to CONFIGURE. Don't ask me what the difference is.

    But maybe you're right it just needed several 24 hour sessions with or without the Internet and my tech guy might be wrong. Fortunately his help is included in my yearly price, no time limits.

    Let me state how much I hate Windows configuring updates when you try to shut down. How often does one shut down a laptop for to pack it up and take it somewhere? It's portable! That's the point of a laptop. I'll be getting ready to go to the airport to catch a flight and try to shut down only to be told to "wait while Windows configures...." I am certain whomever writes this stuff never actually lives a real person's life.

    The internet was out over three hours last night, back up now, so of course when they come to "fix" it this morning things will be running swimmingly, they'll tell me nothing is wrong, go away and it'll go out again tonight. So frustrating.
     
  31. Spring Ford

    Spring Ford Pre-takeoff checklist

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    "how much I hate Windows configuring updates when you try to shut down. How often does one shut down a laptop for to pack it up and take it somewhere"

    Use Hibernate for this. This copies the state of the computer and all memory to the hard disk. When you turn the thing on it reverses it all. MUCH faster than shutdown/restart. You do need enough disk space - if the file does not already exist it might use about double the physical memory size. Once the machine has been hibernated the first time the file remains unless deleted. No risk of an undesired update. Just try it, it will tell you if there is not enough space. I am not sure, I suppose there is a risk of it filling your disk when you don't want it to the first time you try it. If in doubt, get you tech supp. to check out free space for hibernate.

    Sleep is different. In this state power is still used. You can look it up but normally lasts at least 8 hours on a full charge. Recovery from sleep is faster than from hibernate. You though don't want to have the thing crash when the battery runs out. I rarely use sleep. Hibernate often.

    Make a point of shutting the machine down, say weekly, and applying updates as recommended but at your convenience.

    I use hibernate every day and more or less only Shutdown when I need to apply updates. I would not recommend this,:) I only do web browsing really so my laziness is not so important.

    You can most likely configure the power button and/or lid close action to be hibernate if you choose. I don't bother and just chose what I want from the "shutdown" menu.

    When you get Win 10, if you are unlucky, you might find that they don't tell you that by default "Shutdown" does not actually do a shutdown but a form of Hibernate. You will only find this out if you are having trouble from it.

    In the case of Win 10 I think it important to change the setting or to do a Restart say every week. Most win 10 users will only get a full restart when applying updates. I don't fancy that at all.
     
  32. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    Great ideas. I always use sleep, haven't used hibernate in fact I forgot it existed. Thanks!

    Also agree I need to let it do its thing weekly. Since I got my iPad, the poor laptop has been ignored too much which is likely part of why it's giving me so much trouble right now.

    I'm putting off getting Windows 10 as long as possible.
     
  33. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

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    My 2009 Macbook pro hardly gets used anymore either. SSD and memory have gotten cheap enough now though that I went ahead and ordered 8gb and a 500gb ssd for it. That and a new battery and it should be as good as any new laptop for $200.00. I also run Windows 7 through bootcamp on it just for GPS updates.
     
  34. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  35. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    On a six-year-old machine, though, RAM isn't always easy to find, or cheap, because they keep changing format/speed/etc. So, once you look at what it'll cost for more RAM and a bigger SSD vs. just buying a new laptop, it's usually not worth sinking money into one that's already old. That's why I tend to max mine out when I buy them so they last longer, and then when they no longer meet my needs, it's an easy decision to just move to the next one.

    I've only ever had three things that I needed that required Windows. Two of them were specialized things I used for work, one of which is now handled via other electronic automation and the other one is now a server-based tool accessed through a browser that works fine on the Mac.

    The third thing was the King GPS update utility, for which a modern laptop wouldn't work anyway. I had to get an old university-surplus laptop that had USB and a 9-pin serial port and ran Windows XP. Now I have a GTN 750... Good riddance to both the laptop and the KLN 89B!

    So now, the number of things I *need* Windows for is zero.
     
  36. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

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    Updating my Kln90B is why I still run windows on my MacBook. I got a serial to USB adapter so I could do the updates on a modern laptop. I got the crucial 500gb ssd for $89, 8gb of memory for $80, and a new battery for like $35. Should keep me satisfied for a long time. I would have spent 600+ on a new laptop with those specs.
     
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  37. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    it could be a spotty connection is the direct cause of the update issue, particularly if all good prior to that
     
  38. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    BTW, laptops are way cheaper than GTNs. No regrets, though. ;)
     
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  39. Rushie

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    My tech guy called back, I think he's found the problem. Long story short it's a conflict between my security software and Windows update compounded by the intermittent internet disconnects. He's working on it now and if my internet holds he'll probably have it all fixed in an hour.