How friendly are US military controllers?

dennisc172

dennisc172

Pre-Flight
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Messages
93
Location
Amsterdam, NL
Display Name
Display name:
Dennis
Hi guys (and girls?),

As a ~400hr PPL-SEP pilot from the Netherlands (Europe) I am looking to fly for a few weeks for fun around the Arizona area. I got my Foreign based license and everything looks ready to go. Ofcourse I will be doing some training to familiarize myself with the US way of GA and flying in high density situations.

When planning my routing this question came up in my mind, how friendly are US military controllers? In my country and around Europe it is pretty easy to ask for crossing military controlzones (C airspace) or even do an orbit overhead them at 500 ft. Most of them are easy and friendly.

For example; the area around Tucson. I would like to overfly it as you have the plane graveyard over there. The planning is to overfly and proceed via overhead TUS to RYN. Anyone any experience with these kind of crossings? Do you guys do these kind of crossing or rather stay away?

By the way, more tips are welcome for first time US flyer!

Thanks for the advice,
Dennis
 

Attachments

  • temp.jpg
    temp.jpg
    336.9 KB · Views: 36
I've never had a problem dealing with military controllers in civil aircraft. They are as easy or often easier to deal with than their FAA counterparts.
 
Military controllers are prety much the same as FAA controllers. Some are great, some aren't, some have good days, some have bad days. Before you go flying, check NOTAMs for days and times of active areas, ask locals for information about best routes for sightseeing. There are altitude rules for various areas, too. Ask around, get a map.
 
Welcome, Dennis! There are a bunch of us here in the Phoenix and Tucson areas to like to get together for breakfast. Let us know when you'll be in the area; perhaps we can meet up with you.

One of the controllers at Davis-Monthan AFB is an active member of this board ... and a very friendly guy!

I've overflown the Boneyard, but above the top of the Class C airspace while on Flight Following. There's not just the military traffic, but also a lot of airline traffic out of Tucson International.
 
dennisc172 said:
When planning my routing this question came up in my mind, how friendly are US military controllers? In my country and around Europe it is pretty easy to ask for crossing military controlzones (C airspace) or even do an orbit overhead them at 500 ft. Most of them are easy and friendly.
Click to expand...

Same in the US. In fact, you probably wouldn't know the difference if they weren't identified by name.
 
dennisc172 said:
Hi guys (and girls?),

As a ~400hr PPL-SEP pilot from the Netherlands (Europe) I am looking to fly for a few weeks for fun around the Arizona area. I got my Foreign based license and everything looks ready to go. Ofcourse I will be doing some training to familiarize myself with the US way of GA and flying in high density situations.

When planning my routing this question came up in my mind, how friendly are US military controllers? In my country and around Europe it is pretty easy to ask for crossing military controlzones (C airspace) or even do an orbit overhead them at 500 ft. Most of them are easy and friendly.

For example; the area around Tucson. I would like to overfly it as you have the plane graveyard over there. The planning is to overfly and proceed via overhead TUS to RYN. Anyone any experience with these kind of crossings? Do you guys do these kind of crossing or rather stay away?

By the way, more tips are welcome for first time US flyer!

Thanks for the advice,
Dennis
Click to expand...

Welcome Dennis. I happen to be a controller at Davis Monthan (the boneyard) and I'm very friendly. If you are just going to cross the boneyard the military has no problem with it especially on the weekends when we have no wing flying. There are two regulations which prohibit orbiting over the boneyard. One is a Federal NOTAM issued post 9-11 about not allowing civil aircraft to loiter over military installations, dams, power plants, etc. The other is our local flying regulation which states during wing flying no orbiting over the boneyard is allowed. However it also states (and this is for the weekends) that civil aircraft may fly over the boneyard but are limited to no turns over 180 degrees.

But I'll let you in on a little secret just for you. The Tucson Tracon allows orbiting on the weekends in their airspace which begins at 5,500'. They don't enforce the Federal NOTAM.
 
flyingron said:
I've never had a problem dealing with military controllers in civil aircraft. They are as easy or often easier to deal with than their FAA counterparts.
Click to expand...

I would give that one two likes if I could. :)
 
I’ve ether found them the same or even more friendly, shy of NY most all controllers are pretty friendly, infact as a medevac I’ve found the mil controllers go out of there way a little more to help.
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone for all the information, that was very helpfull! I will be giving it a try on a weekend day.
 
The Netherlands are in Europe? When did that happen?! ;)

Timbeck2 who already chimed in is your best resource for your inquiry.
 
After philly routes me all over the guys at McGuire seem to go out of the way to help get you back on track and make up time.
I’d say they A’ok
 
My wife is Dutch ... she kind of has control issues? :D (but she is friendly)
Her dad always said "You can always tell a Dutchman ... you just can't tell them much!"
 
I was a jerk and I’d shut your little happy horse **** spy game down in a heartbeat! Just get on Google Earth, zoom in and make airplane noises and pretend you’re there.
 
There is an air force base north of Indy (Grissom) whose controllers provide flight following in the gap between Indy and Chicago. They are always very nice, and would often offer up their approaches for practice when I was working toward my IR. Essentially no difference dealing with them than the FAA, except I always think its extra cool talking to the military folks. (I say, "extra" because I think its pretty cool talking to the FAA controllers.)
 
PPC1052 said:
There is an air force base north of Indy (Grissom) whose controllers provide flight following in the gap between Indy and Chicago. They are always very nice, and would often offer up their approaches for practice when I was working toward my IR. Essentially no difference dealing with them than the FAA, except I always think its extra cool talking to the military folks. (I say, "extra" because I think its pretty cool talking to the FAA controllers.)
Click to expand...

Grissom isn't an active duty base anymore so they may not be military controllers. Probably contract tower or even ANG controllers. I don't know for sure but I'd guess contract controllers.

Edit found this article and they look like contract controllers as they're not wearing uniforms.

https://www.grissom.afrc.af.mil/New...grissom-steps-up-supports-air-traffic-crisis/
 
They may be technicians who only have to wear their uniforms on drill weekend. Their haircuts would indicate that they're military but I don't know.
 
I have always received exceptional service from military controllers. Talk to the folks at Gray Army (Fort Hood, TX) all the time, always great.

And, to this day, I wish I'd had a name and address for that one fella at Cairns Approach who, when I REALLY needed an IFR clearance, issued one instantly - he deserved a good bottle of scotch.
 
SCCutler said:
I have always received exceptional service from military controllers. Talk to the folks at Gray Army (Fort Hood, TX) all the time, always great.

And, to this day, I wish I'd had a name and address for that one fella at Cairns Approach who, when I REALLY needed an IFR clearance, issued one instantly - he deserved a good bottle of scotch.
Click to expand...

I think Gray controllers are FAA or contract controllers. My airline flew into there from ATL. I know Cairns used to be DOD controllers, mostly prior military controllers. A retired USAF controller friend got on there. Yeah Cairns has always been great to work with, that I agree.
 
SCCutler said:
I have always received exceptional service from military controllers. Talk to the folks at Gray Army (Fort Hood, TX) all the time, always great.

And, to this day, I wish I'd had a name and address for that one fella at Cairns Approach who, when I REALLY needed an IFR clearance, issued one instantly - he deserved a good bottle of scotch.
Click to expand...

He was definitely civilian DOD. Only Army personnel in Cairns ARAC, are the ATC washouts that work “Hub Radio” for the Army helos in the area.
 
My favorite was when the NG guys set up their portable TRACON at MRB for practice. PCT begs the pilots to make these guys day by actually calling them.
 
Other than what Tim and others have already said, the only military controllers I've talked to in the area are the folks at Luke Approach when I'm going somewhere near their space. No difference working with them than any of the other approach controllers as far as I could tell -- though I was just on flight following, not trying to overfly the base or negotiate a clearance through a restricted area or anything.
 
The guys at Cairns and Lawson, who I talk to periodically, are indistinguishable from any other Center / Approach people I've spoken with, aside from some of the other traffic they are talking to. The nice folks at Seymour Johnson AFB are often easier to raise than Wilmington Departure, a sad state of affairs when I'm departing an uncontrolled grass field and want to open my IFR flight plan . . . .
 
I'll just pile on with everyone else- I've dealt with them in a few different places and it's pretty much no different than anywhere else.
 
Funny that so many say military controllers are no different than the FAA. There's a good reason for that, we take the same tests, are certified on the same equipment and use the same regulations. I've got a green plastic card issued by the FAA - two actually, that are just like all pilots receive but for ATC. One is my CTO (Control Tower Operator) card and the other is my CTO Examiner (yeah, I'm one of those) card. Only thing different is that they've got a union and they get paid a lot more.
 
dennisc172 said:
Hi guys (and girls?),

As a ~400hr PPL-SEP pilot from the Netherlands (Europe) I am looking to fly for a few weeks for fun around the Arizona area. I got my Foreign based license and everything looks ready to go. Ofcourse I will be doing some training to familiarize myself with the US way of GA and flying in high density situations.

When planning my routing this question came up in my mind, how friendly are US military controllers? In my country and around Europe it is pretty easy to ask for crossing military controlzones (C airspace) or even do an orbit overhead them at 500 ft. Most of them are easy and friendly.

For example; the area around Tucson. I would like to overfly it as you have the plane graveyard over there. The planning is to overfly and proceed via overhead TUS to RYN. Anyone any experience with these kind of crossings? Do you guys do these kind of crossing or rather stay away?

By the way, more tips are welcome for first time US flyer!

Thanks for the advice,
Dennis
Click to expand...

In my experience military atc is awesome! I interract with them regularly
 
In my experience military controllers are a little friendlier and more laid back
 
mscard88 said:
What's 2152s? Full time ANG?
Click to expand...

GS-2152. General Schedule Civilian Employees. The 2152 is the same thing as MOS in military. Maybe some of them are in the Guard and when they were doing their annual 2 week thing showed up to work in uniform.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top