How do small airports get ICAO/IATA codes?

iamtheari

iamtheari

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Sometimes when I'm looking at the sectional, I am just baffled at the tiny little towns that have ICAO and IATA codes. Good example: Mohall, North Dakota, population 783, runway length 3100', not an airport of entry, no scheduled air carrier operations, not even any nearby navaids to share an identifier with, is KHBC/HBC. How does that happen?
 
Those are not IATA codes, but ICAO-compliant US identifiers.

The reason this happens of late is that the METAR format requires an ICAO-compliant identifier. When an airport gets a AWOS or whatever, they get a compliant code assigned.
 
If I recall correctly, an ICAO and/or IATA code is assigned based on scheduled air carrier service to the field.
 
flyingron said:
Those are not IATA codes, but ICAO-compliant US identifiers.
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I did not know that distinction. At least I learned something from my inquiry. :)

AWACSEng said:
If I recall correctly, an ICAO and/or IATA code is assigned based on scheduled air carrier service to the field.
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I can't imagine that Mohall ever had scheduled air carrier service. It does not have an AWOS, ASOS, or any other weather service.

Bobanna said:
Life is good in Mohall; why did you need to tell everyone about it?
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The reason nobody important in world history ever came from Mohall is certainly because nobody important wants to leave. But don't worry, I won't spread the news too far and wide.

Timbeck2 said:
You some sort of airport name snob are ya? :sosp:
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No, I'm just one part jealous and two parts curious. My little airport just has a letter and two numbers and I have to write in "ZZZZ" and use the remarks box of the ICAO flight plan form. It makes me shy about admitting where I am to people who are airport name snobs. :) (As a data point, we do have an AWOS-3. No air carriers.)
 
Life is good in Mohall -- quit telling everyone about it, please. Oh, and good luck using frequent flier miles to get here (IATA, ICAO -or not)
 
Bobanna said:
Life is good in Mohall -- quit telling everyone about it, please. Oh, and good luck using frequent flier miles to get here (IATA, ICAO -or not)
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'Delta Private Jets'. They must have something that can stop on 3100ft.
 
True, probably boring, story specific to our airport on 'how' the local identifier came about.... told to me by the protagonist.

Back when the airport codes were being assigned, the FAA came out to survey the airport. While they were here, they were talking with the airport manager about a suitable identifier, but couldn't come up with something appropriate. During the discussion, the airport manager happened to mention that the only pilot really doing any instrument work was Ben Johnson. He was sitting in the lounge, so they asked him his middle initial.... and that's how Wooster, Ohio came to be KBJJ

Ben still owns the first hangar in the first row at the airport. ...and now you know the REST of the story (with apologies to Paul Harvey).

Jim

...and for trivial bonus points.... O'Hare in Chicago is located on the site of the original Orchard Airport. Hence, KORD.
 
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I just could never figure out if IND was for Indiana or Indianapolis. I lay awake at night sometimes worrying about it.
 
iamtheari said:
Sometimes when I'm looking at the sectional, I am just baffled at the tiny little towns that have ICAO and IATA codes. Good example: Mohall, North Dakota, population 783, runway length 3100', not an airport of entry, no scheduled air carrier operations, not even any nearby navaids to share an identifier with, is KHBC/HBC. How does that happen?
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If memory is correct, one reason they were assigned was if there was an instrument approach available terminating there. Looks like Mohall has a VOR/DME approach off MIN, and a, undoubtedly newer, GPS approach.

Jim
 
Jim Rosenow said:
If memory is correct, one reason they were assigned was if there was an instrument approach available terminating there. Looks like Mohall has a VOR/DME approach off MIN, and a, undoubtedly newer, GPS approach.

Jim
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I'm aware of a few airports with instrument approaches that don't have ICAO codes. C83 and O22 are some examples. And both have AWOS and provide METARs.
 
On the other side, I got my license and was based for seven years at KHTW, with no scheduled service, no weather reporting and no instrument approaches.

Over the years, I did learn a little history of the place: it was founded by Mr. Riddle (of Embry Riddle fame) in the late 20s and was the commercial airport for Huntington, WV until the jet age (they are too loud, and need too much room). Since the early 60s, it's been a GA airport and is now right on the edge of the Huntington Class D.

Some things are just not obvious . . .
 
No airport that reports a METAR is supposed to still have a non-ICAO compliant code. In practice, nothing keeps it from happening, it's just "not standard."

While sometimes the ICAO-compliant code in the US is the same as the IATA (once you drop the K), it is not universally true. Outside the US, the ICAO codes have little relationship to the IATA code. There are lots of non-US IATA codes that collide with US ICAO identifiers. AOC is Leipzig in IATA, but KAOC is Arco Idaho.

C83 appears not to disseminate via METAR even though it has an AWOS.

E16 and O22 have disseminate via METAR, but that is nonstandard (but what can you do).
 
AWACSEng said:
If I recall correctly, an ICAO and/or IATA code is assigned based on scheduled air carrier service to the field.
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Not always. We've recently been changed from 3M3 to KFGU. No scheduled air carrier and no instrument procedures.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I just could never figure out if IND was for Indiana or Indianapolis. I lay awake at night sometimes worrying about it.
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You remind me of the insomniac, agnostic, dyslexic who would lie awake wondering if there really was a DOG.
 
Ryanb said:
Not always. We've recently been changed from 3M3 to KFGU. No scheduled air carrier and no instrument procedures.
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Did your weather reporting get hooked up to the NWS network ?
 
weilke said:
Did your weather reporting get hooked up to the NWS network ?
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Not that I know of. It has an AWOS-A and it's a joke. It runs off of DigiWx but it's usually inaccurate. I honestly don't know what sparked the idenfier change.
 
We are S25. Our METAR is available through aviationweather.gov and other sources. We have two GPS approaches and I believe used to have an NDB approach before the NDF was decommissioned some years back.

I am getting the sense, especially since METAR-reporting airports are apparently supposed to have ICAO codes, that it's just a matter of old airports catching up to the standards. That doesn't explain Mohall but we have already established that it's a special case of true heaven on earth.
 
iamtheari said:
Sometimes when I'm looking at the sectional, I am just baffled at the tiny little towns that have ICAO and IATA codes. Good example: Mohall, North Dakota, population 783, runway length 3100', not an airport of entry, no scheduled air carrier operations, not even any nearby navaids to share an identifier with, is KHBC/HBC. How does that happen?
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Airports with a NAVAID on the field are assigned the same three-letter identifier as the NAVAID. Mohall NDB was on the field, it has gone the way of many such NAVAIDs. Location identifiers are considered permanent and will not be changed without good reason.
 
Hank S said:
On the other side, I got my license and was based for seven years at KHTW, with no scheduled service, no weather reporting and no instrument approaches.

Over the years, I did learn a little history of the place: it was founded by Mr. Riddle (of Embry Riddle fame) in the late 20s and was the commercial airport for Huntington, WV until the jet age (they are too loud, and need too much room). Since the early 60s, it's been a GA airport and is now right on the edge of the Huntington Class D.
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Portions of the Huntington sectional from 1947, 1959, and 1967.

1947.jpg


1959.jpg


1967.jpg
 
I've never learned who is consulted when choosing an airport's code, but I'm certain it doesn't include the local chamber of commerce, at least not in South Dakota and neighboring areas.

Otherwise the fine airports in Sioux City and Rapid City would not be SUX and KRAP.
 
Jim Rosenow said:
If memory is correct, one reason they were assigned was if there was an instrument approach available terminating there. Looks like Mohall has a VOR/DME approach off MIN, and a, undoubtedly newer, GPS approach.
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Identifiers are assigned in accordance with Order 7350.9G Location Identifiers, see paragraph 1-2-7 ASSIGNMENT SYSTEM.
 
My college training field started off as an FAA ID and stayed that way until about 3/4 years ago. We were forced to switch to an ICAO approved ID after our newly assigned TAF kept crashing the NWS computers.

I was working the FBO desk when we got a phone call from the NWS complaining about how our identifier was causing issues. The guy asked me some suggestions on IDs to which I politely gave him a few off the top of my head. A few days later I got an angry email from our college department head asking me to come to his office ASAP. Apparently the NWS guy liked one of my suggestions and was proceeding with officially changing it.

Long story short I was told to only transfer calls, even if was to voicemail, and never answer questions to anyone again.
 
Jim Rosenow said:
True, probably boring, story specific to our airport on 'how' the local identifier came about.... told to me by the protagonist.

Back when the airport codes were being assigned, the FAA came out to survey the airport. While they were here, they were talking with the airport manager about a suitable identifier, but couldn't come up with something appropriate. During the discussion, the airport manager happened to mention that the only pilot really doing any instrument work was Ben Johnson. He was sitting in the lounge, so they asked him his middle initial.... and that's how Wooster, Ohio came to be KBJJ

Ben still owns the first hangar in the first row at the airport. ...and now you know the REST of the story (with apologies to Paul Harvey).

Jim

...and for trivial bonus points.... O'Hare in Chicago is located on the site of the original Orchard Airport. Hence, KORD.
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Not boring to me. I am over there once a month or so doing landings. Nice to know the back story.
 
ARFlyer said:
My college training field started off as an FAA ID and stayed that way until about 3/4 years ago. We were forced to switch to an ICAO approved ID after our newly assigned TAF kept crashing the NWS computers.

I was working the FBO desk when we got a phone call from the NWS complaining about how our identifier was causing issues. The guy asked me some suggestions on IDs to which I politely gave him a few off the top of my head. A few days later I got an angry email from our college department head asking me to come to his office ASAP. Apparently the NWS guy liked one of my suggestions and was proceeding with officially changing it.

Long story short I was told to only transfer calls, even if was to voicemail, and never answer questions to anyone again.
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Great story. What was the weather-system-crashing ID, and what suggestion of yours did they like????
 
Sam D said:
See 1-2-7 of this document for FAA guidance on assigning airport identifiers.
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Did you bother reading it before linking to it?

Section 4. International Location Identifiers

1−4−1. USE OF LOCATION INDICATORS

An international location indicator is a four−letter code used in international telecommunications. The location indicator for airports in the contiguous United States is the three−letter identifier preceded by “K”. For other non−contiguous United States airports, the following two letter prefix will be used:

Alaska − PA, PF, PO, PP Hawaii − PH
Puerto Rico − TJ
Virgin Islands − TI

(See ICAO Document 7910 for listings.)

1−4−2. REQUESTS OR ASSIGNMENTS OF LOCATION INDICATORS

Send requests for international location indicator assignments as follows:

a. Within the United States and its jurisdictions to: Aeronautical Information Management, NFDC, Federal Aviation Administration, Washington, DC 20591.

b. From other States (nations) and Territories to: the appropriate agency within the State or Territory for coordination with ICAO.
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Useless link is useless
 
Jim_CAK said:
Not boring to me. I am over there once a month or so doing landings. Nice to know the back story.
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Gad you enjoyed it, Jim_CAK! Coffee is always on at the FBO. I'm 4 minutes away if you want company while you're here. Everybody has the number.

Jim
 
Lancaster, PA.....the airport designator is KLNS, the VOR on the field is LRP.
The airport designator does not always match the on field nav-aid.
 
biplanebob said:
Lancaster, PA.....the airport designator is KLNS, the VOR on the field is LRP.
The airport designator does not always match the on field nav-aid.
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I remember reading about something in the aughts about there being a specific effort to do just that, but that it was eventually scrapped as there were too many changes necessary.

That's how FMN became RSK IIRC
 
NoHeat said:
Otherwise the fine airports in Sioux City and Rapid City would not be SUX and KRAP.
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RAP has been RAP longer than any ICAO-fanatic thought about putting a K in front of it.
 
SkyHog said:
I remember reading about something in the aughts about there being a specific effort to do just that, but that it was eventually scrapped as there were too many changes necessary.

That's how FMN became RSK IIRC
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They were supposed to rename all the ones that were more than a certain distance from the field. I think they indeed gave up. We've still got a few VORs that share the same identifier as the airport and they are quite separated. Of course, we have the AML VOR which sits smack dab in the middle of the IAD airport. Amusingly, Boston gives me IFR routes that involve going to IAD rather than AML in the middle of the route. Hey, with GPS that's easy but odd.
 
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