How do I make a Cessna 150 suitable for IFR training/checkride?

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by rookie1255, Aug 31, 2016.

  1. rookie1255

    rookie1255 Pre-Flight

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    Right now there's only 1 nav and 1 comm. We can do localizer and VOR approaches but no ILS which means I can't use it for the dual IFR trip or for the checkride.

    I would like to install this:
    http://www.valavionics.com/ins-429.html

    The manufacturer provides this nice FAQ:
    http://www.valavionics.com/installation-in-type-certificated-aircraft.html

    If this won't work, what cheap (relatively) equipment can I get to get a glideslope? I'm guessing it would need an STC. The VAL INS 429 doesn't appear to have an STC for a 150, so it would need a field approval and would be a giant pain, even if it got approved (which there's no guarantee). A GTN 650 would be nice, but cost prohibitive and overkill for training/giving my 150 IFR capability.

    The airplane has a clock, and all the other equipment in 91.205 so it's technically equipped for IFR, but I want to be able to shoot precision approaches.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  2. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    The examiner can only test you on the equipment installed. the rest is your own preference.
     
  3. rookie1255

    rookie1255 Pre-Flight

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    The examiner is going to want to see a precision approach. There's no GS currently in the plane.
     
  4. jbarrass

    jbarrass Line Up and Wait

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    The Narco NAV-122, if you can find one is an easy and cheap alternative. It's a VOR / LOC / Glideslope Indicator / Glideslope Receiver / NAV Receiver / Marker Beacon Receiver and Indicator all in one hole.

    Easy to install and fly.
     
  5. rookie1255

    rookie1255 Pre-Flight

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    Narco NAV-122 looks good to me. Does anyone know where I can find the AML-STC to make sure a 150 is on it?
     
  6. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    There really isn't another radio anywhere near that cost. I just sold an older INS422 which was manufactured under TSO and getting that field approved was a no-brainer.

    #1 Call the manufacturer and ask if he has any prior field approvals on file that he can email copies to of to you or additional data you could use to pursue one.
     
  7. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Good luck finding one that works well. I wouldn't waste the labor on one.
     
  8. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Legacy avionics like that almost NEVER were installed via STC because back in the 1970 & 1980 the whole substantiation mindset of aftermarket equipment was different, almost all VHF nav equipment was a field approval or log entry only.

    You aren't going to find an STC for something like that built in 1980. If there was an STC, the holder is probably out business or dead so getting ahold of the data package and a letter of authorization to use it near impossible anyway.

    If the unit is TSO like a KN53 with a KI204 it should be very simple to get a field approval. I'd still start with the INS429 tho, if you get nowhere with one FSDO then ask a different one.
     
  9. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Take your airplane to a couple of nearby avionics shops, tell them what you want and see what they can do for you.
     
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  10. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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  11. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    TSO or not, a radio installation other than an IFR GPS isn't going to require an STC or field approval.
     
  12. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Its gonna be much easier to work with a shop that agrees. Opinions and shop policy are variable.
     
  13. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Curious what the existing radios are, never mentioned it.
     
  14. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    why use a avionics shop. any a&p can install that radio.

    bob
     
  15. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    a precision approach is REQUIRED.

    bob
     
  16. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    OK,, rent an aircraft for the check ride.
     
  17. rookie1255

    rookie1255 Pre-Flight

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    Installing this radio and GS antenna would probably fall under major alteration and require an IA. This is the first I've heard that "a radio installation other than an IFR GPS isn't going to require an STC or field approval." My understanding was that if the equipment wasn't original to the type certificate then an STC is required by default.
     
  18. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Certainly not in the USA with the FAA. More stuff gets installed each day by means other than an STC. I'd bet that the current radios in the 150 weren't installed using an STC...

    STC is absolutely required by default when changing certain things, VHF nav radio is not one of them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  19. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    entirely not true. adding a radio to a radio stack does not fall under major repair. unless changes need to made to the structure of the airframe. it is a minor modification and can be done with a log book entry and a recalculation of the W&B. the problem is that the 337 has been distorted so much that most A&P's use it as a CYA device for any change.

    bob
     
  20. rookie1255

    rookie1255 Pre-Flight

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    Why is adding a WAAS GPS and GPS antenna a major alteration, but adding a glide slope antenna and compatible radio a minor alteration?
     
  21. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Because the certificate holders that sign this stuff off get to sit in a meeting every year with the FAA to communicate "how we gonna do it in our district this year"...

    Of course a bunch of lawyers get to sit around and write job aids like this:
    http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/other/Major_Repair_Alteration_Job-Aid.pdf
     
  22. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Please tell me all about this "glide slope antenna" thingy that would "have to be added"?
     
  23. psween

    psween Pre-Flight

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    I have a 150 and also wish to to do instrument training with it. I have a single KX -125 nav comm that works well, but have no way to demonstrate ILS or RNAV precision approaches. I looked into the Narco 122, adding a GS indicator alone for the 125 to drive, or the VAL 429. I'm 99 percent decided on the 429. I have one spare instrument spot on the panel and it seems like it will give me the most bang for the buck. So far none of the shops I've talked to have balked at the install, including my local A&P IA who would install and wire it with a log entry, or talk me through the install myself (I'm also an an A&P, but no avionics experience).

    Patrick
     
  24. rookie1255

    rookie1255 Pre-Flight

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    From the last comment I'm going to deduce that the same antenna does vor/loc and GS. A new antenna would still need to be installed for the marker beacon. The only other things that need to be replaced are the radio and the CDI. The VAL INS 429 would have it all in one box being a CDI w/GS and radio. No STC or field approval is needed to just install a radio (minor alteration). The only issue is that it's not TSO'd. However on the manufacturer's page they claim thay it meets TSO specifications and should be ok to install in certified aircraft.

    I've learned a lot from everyones responses. Hopefully I'm close to a solution...
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
  25. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Maybe you understand the antennas, maybe you don't.
     
  26. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

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    That's the kind of "helpful" response that makes the internet a crappy place to try and get information.
     
  27. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Generally I agree with your position but there are a lot of airplanes out there with stand alone glide slope antennas. Pretty much anything that came factory with Cessna ARC radios do. Lots of part 25 airplanes do too.
     
  28. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Last time I checked a 150 wasn't a part 25...
     
  29. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Lmao