How dangerous are low-level aerobatics?

Melissa2983298

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Melissa
While watching airshows, I've always wondered how dangerous low-level aerobatics are. I've read articles and everything, but they're never written by pilots, so I was wondering if any aerobatic pilots had some input?

How dangerous are aerobatics like Rob Holland does, for example? I've always been interested in competition aerobatics/airshow flying, so if anyone has any input, I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks!
 
While watching airshows, I've always wondered how dangerous low-level aerobatics are. I've read articles and everything, but they're never written by pilots, so I was wondering if any aerobatic pilots had some input?

How dangerous are aerobatics like Rob Holland does, for example? I've always been interested in competition aerobatics/airshow flying, so if anyone has any input, I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks!

I like to think of all the performers I would see at OSH over last 13 years and remember how good they WERE! Excellent pilots with skills second to none. I also remember Doc Baldwin who I rode in his Extra 300 with him only to learn of his death doing an airshow in Tucumcari later that year.

Ive done a little aerobatics but being that close to the ground with very little chance of recovery hasn't worked out well for many good pilots. If it can happen to darn good pilots I will just choose to stay up high!

However competition from my understanding has significant safety margins in place and carries less risk. I too would enjoy trying that out. It's just the low level stuff I have no wish to perform.

Just my opinion....
 
They go in fairly regularly. You going to start?
 
While watching airshows, I've always wondered how dangerous low-level aerobatics are. I've read articles and everything, but they're never written by pilots, so I was wondering if any aerobatic pilots had some input?

How dangerous are aerobatics like Rob Holland does, for example? I've always been interested in competition aerobatics/airshow flying, so if anyone has any input, I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks!

The aerobatics aren't dangerous, the problem at low level is you don't have the time to recover from a mistake. Even the best humans make mistakes, and unfortunately aviation in general is intolerant of mistakes.

Aerobatics is just a process of turning energy into motion and back again. Top level Aerobatic planes are made to withstand more energy transfer than the human occupant can pull for before blacking out, so none of the moves are dangerous in that way. The real danger in aerobatics is actual at the other end of the scale when the energy has played out, and you don't have enough horsepower or altitude to recover flying energy before impacting terrain. Modern top level planes have a lot of horsepower and are very light.

So, while the risk level is quite high, being that what is at stake is your life, the actual danger factor for an airshow performance wavered pilot is considerably more reasonable, in line with motorcycle racing I suppose. Mind you, aerobatic planes are built pretty well and sometimes pilots walk away from flaming wrecks, but yes, every year there are fatalities.
 
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I've had two friends, who held low-altitude aerobatic waivers, die in low altitude aerobatic accidents. Those guys were superb pilots but when you are operating in an area where you have no margin for error you had better not screw up. They screwed up.
 
I've said it before here and have been accused of being an a**hole for doing so, (guilty as charged).

70 year-old men (or women) flying low level aerobatics in 70 year-old planes in close proximity to spectators should not be allowed.

It's just stupid...an accident waiting to happen. And it has, over and over again.
 
Well I see the younger guys going down with newer planes. I never see 1940 airshow planes crashing. There have been many acro planes go down in the past couple of years. Not sure why but the number seems to be increasing.
 
I've said it before here and have been accused of being an a**hole for doing so, (guilty as charged).



70 year-old men (or women) flying low level aerobatics in 70 year-old planes in close proximity to spectators should not be allowed.



It's just stupid...an accident waiting to happen. And it has, over and over again.


Yeah but we haven't figured out how to get them to give us their airplanes yet so we young whippersnappers can do it. Ha.
 
Flying aerobatics is not intrinsically dangerous- altitude is your friend if you screw something up. It can make one a better pilot, and help develop a feel for an airplane's performance across the whole range of the flight envelope. Stalls and spins, upright and inverted while up high- not a problem.

However, running out of energy or altitude when down low is very unforgiving. If something breaks down low there's simply not enough time to trouble shoot and decide to land or bail.

Watch an airshow with top performers- all of the rolling or snaps are done either up high or on an upline, but rarely down low. Looping maneuvers can be curved off of the vertical while still looking round to the crowd, so the pull out is low but controlled.

Up higher simply gives more time to sort out problems or recover. Problems arise when running out of energy or altitude, or a major mechanical malfunction occurs and there's not enough time or altitude to bail.
 
If you decide to go that route, Melissa, just be sure you know your airplane inside and out before you get so low to the ground. Pilots like Patty Wagstaff can safely fly low to the ground because they are superior pilots first, then airshow performers second. Even pilots of her caliber can make mistakes, though.
 
Competition aerobatics have specific minimum altitude rules based on category, an Unlimited Pilot has a hard deck of 328', Primary and Sportsman are 1500', all AGL. The contests I have worked have demonstrated zero tolerance for altitude busts.

Anyone interested in aerobatics should join IAC, find a local aerobatics instructor, and work through the system, it takes years and years to approach the level of competency represented by the top level airshow guys.

NEVER try and teach yourself aerobatics - that IS dangerous.

Low level aerobatics like you see at an airshow also require waivers, first for the show itself which defines deadlines, and the performance box, and second for the pilot. An aspiring performer will be assigned to an Aerobatic Competency Evaluator, or ACE. It is a self-policing system that works exceptionally well.

The folks talking about guys going in all the time are full of *****, airshow flying is heavily regulated by FAA, ICAS, and the performers themselves - and has a good safety record considering the number of performers and shows per year.

This type of flying leaves little room for error but the reason it looks hazardous is showmanship from the performers - there is margin, but less than flying straight and level at FL190.

Those of us who engage in competition aerobatics are, in very large part, interested in mastering our craft and are, far from reckless or cavalier. Those who are reckless or cavalier don't last.

It is a lot like instrument flying, and formation flying - requires countless hours of preparation and practice, and takes time to become competent first, and then to master.

It is all about training and commitment.

'Gimp
 
I've said it before here and have been accused of being an a**hole for doing so, (guilty as charged).

70 year-old men (or women) flying low level aerobatics in 70 year-old planes in close proximity to spectators should not be allowed.

It's just stupid...an accident waiting to happen. And it has, over and over again.

You clearly have little to no understanding of aerobatics and the issues facing airshow pilots. Your statement is just more junk internet chaff...strong opinions spouted off by those who really don't have a clue what they're talking about. Carry on.
 
I've said it before here and have been accused of being an a**hole for doing so, (guilty as charged).

70 year-old men (or women) flying low level aerobatics in 70 year-old planes in close proximity to spectators should not be allowed.

It's just stupid...an accident waiting to happen. And it has, over and over again.

You clearly have little to no understanding of aerobatics and the issues facing airshow pilots. Your statement is just more junk internet chaff...strong opinions spouted off by those who really don't have a clue what they're talking about. Carry on.

Well said RT. I'll second that motion. :yes:
 
I have a couple friends that have the low level waiver. One is over 70, he is a ACE and I would put him up against most guys doing it now.

I do think it's dangerous but with practice and experience that these two that I know I think they do everything they can to lessen any problems.
 
If it wasn't dangerous all those highly experienced and skilled airshow pilots wouldn't have died.
 
An Air Force Thunderbird crashed some years back because he got too low and couldn't recover.
 
While watching airshows, I've always wondered how dangerous low-level aerobatics are.
Let me put it this way. You know those two big white touchdown aiming markers on the runway? They're 1000' feet away from the beginning of the runway when you taxi into position for takeoff. At pattern altitude, that's all the higher you are above the ground. Airshow pilots are doing their routines within that distance vertically. Is that for you?

dtuuri
 
You really can't quantify how dangerous "low level aerobatics" is. Low level means different things to different people. For some, low level is 1,500' AGL. For others, it's 10' AGL. "Aerobatics" means different things too. For many, aerobatics is nothing more than simple flopped positive G aileron rolls and loops. For others, they are complex routines comprised of anything the airplane can possibly do.

Your altitude is directly proportional to the options you have when things go wrong mechanically, as well as your margin for making mistakes at the wrong time. That being said, the best airshow pilots are very good about mitigating the risks and designing their routines to look more dramatic than they actually are. Rob Holland and Sean Tucker may fly down to the surface, but you will not see them do a tumble at 100' AGL. They approach the surface at high speed and shallowed out angles to give them options. If doing an aileron roll from the surface, they will pitch up a bit.

Contrary to what some may think, pulling out of loops at surface level, or doing aileron rolls at 20' is not what is most likely to get an airshow pilot killed - it's continuing their sequence below their proper altitude "gate", combined with making a mistake or losing situational awareness. People like Rob and Sean design their sequences such that they always have an 'out' if something goes wrong. This requires hitting proper altitude "gates" for certain figures or parts of their sequence. For example, that 'cobra' take off that Kirby Chambliss does leaves him with zero options if his engine takes a crap at the wrong time. He'd just be dead. Also, most of these pilots don't fly any maneuvers in a show they haven't practiced hundreds of times. Sean Tucker says it takes him YEARS to add a new maneuver to his routine.

The majority of the airshow fatalities involving high performance aerobatics involve tumbles and spins of some sort that got out of control for one reason or another. Julie Clark is extremely unlikely to ever get killed doing the really basic loops, rolls, and Cubans in her T-34, even if at low level. She doesn't even fly that low. The Jim Leroy, Bryan Jensen, and Nancy Lynn fatalities in the last 10 yrs or so involved low level snaps and/or tumbles. Bryan actually had a bit of altitude, but his tumble from around 1000' decayed into an inverted spin, and though the final report has still not been released, it appears he failed to recover the spin, and actually "crossed over" before hitting the ground. A contributing factor to Jim Leroy's crash could have been the cloud of smoke and reduced visibility as he did those final snap rolls on a downline. Nancy Lynn recovered snap rolls on a downline too low, just like Leroy. Best to be in a high energy state, a shallow angle, and with the airplane fully under control when approaching the surface.

None of this will mean much to you until you get started on your aerobatic journey and learn more about what's involved and what it's all about. It sounds like you haven't really started yet, so don't worry too much about this stuff before you really have any perspective and can see what kind of flying your aerobatic interests lead you into. If you do get into airshow flying eventually, understand that actual flying ability may be the least important part. It actually takes very little aerobatic skill to obtain a statement of aerobatic competency (SAC) and start flying local airshows doing basic maneuvers. Safety and judgment is #1, marketing yourself #2, and flying skill #3. Rob and Sean and a number of other airshow pilots have top level skill, but there are many more local and smaller-time airshow pilots who don't come close to approaching that level of skill (or even have very modest skills) yet still fly safe shows. You will receive guidance from an ACE (aerobatic competency evaluator) and you will start out flying shows at an 800' min. altitude until you fly enough shows and also prove to the ACE that you can incrementally drop down to lower minimum altitudes, and ultimately to the surface if you wish.
 
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I've said it before here and have been accused of being an a**hole for doing so, (guilty as charged).

70 year-old men (or women) flying low level aerobatics in 70 year-old planes in close proximity to spectators should not be allowed.

It's just stupid...an accident waiting to happen. And it has, over and over again.

Well, that's a matter of perspective, others might say we should encourage it for the same reason. ;)
 
Whiff: I believe Sean has added a 50' AGL snap to his show this year. Swear I saw that at OSH but I can't say for sure. He does it from a small very shallow humpty at show center if memory serves.
 
You clearly have little to no understanding of aerobatics and the issues facing airshow pilots. Your statement is just more junk internet chaff...strong opinions spouted off by those who really don't have a clue what they're talking about. Carry on.
Maybe...I've been wrong before and certainly will be again.

But I think there's a reason 70 year-olds aren't competing at a professional level in other physically demanding "sports" like they do in aviation. I'm 54 and my strength, stamina, coordination, etc. isn't anywhere close to what it was 25 years ago.

My issue with it isn't that they do it. It's that they do it in close proximity to people on the ground.

Unless someone can explain to me how doing airshow level aerobatics isn't more physically demanding that mowing the grass, I'll keep my "strong opinion spouted off (even though I) really don't have a clue what (I'm) talking about."

:wink2:
 
Ahhhh sunshine on our frail pilot egos. Make it stop. :lol:
Maybe...I've been wrong before and certainly will be again.

But I think there's a reason 70 year-olds aren't competing at a professional level in other physically demanding "sports" like they do in aviation. I'm 54 and my strength, stamina, coordination, etc. isn't anywhere close to what it was 25 years ago.

My issue with it isn't that they do it. It's that they do it in close proximity to people on the ground.

Unless someone can explain to me how doing airshow level aerobatics isn't more physically demanding that mowing the grass, I'll keep my "strong opinion spouted off (even though I) really don't have a clue what (I'm) talking about."

:wink2:
 
Maybe...I've been wrong before and certainly will be again.

But I think there's a reason 70 year-olds aren't competing at a professional level in other physically demanding "sports" like they do in aviation. I'm 54 and my strength, stamina, coordination, etc. isn't anywhere close to what it was 25 years ago.

My issue with it isn't that they do it. It's that they do it in close proximity to people on the ground.

Unless someone can explain to me how doing airshow level aerobatics isn't more physically demanding that mowing the grass, I'll keep my "strong opinion spouted off (even though I) really don't have a clue what (I'm) talking about."

:wink2:

You are clearly not remotely an aerobatic pilot, and have no understanding of what aerobatics is all about, but I will respond maybe for the benefit of others here who are curious, but not so steadfast in clinging to their ignorance.

First, what is it physiologically that occurs at age 70 that makes it dangerous for pilots to fly close to the ground? Are you going to self-ground at age 70 for no good reason? You seem to think that aerobatics is all created equal. Far from it. Two top airshow pilots - John Mohr and Sean Tucker (both over age 60 BTW) - Sean bashes the crap out of his body pulling about +9G and -7G. John is more like +4.5 and -1G, and much tamer calmer maneuvers...much easier on the body. You must think pilots have no ability to recognize and fly within their limits. No, Sean will not be flying the way he flies at age 80, but John could keep doing that routine for a long time. What about the warbird acro guys who never pull more than 3G and fly sequences your grandmother could ride through while knitting? Clearly they must be stopped.

And what is your experience and empirical evidence regarding 70+ year olds doing aerobatics that makes you think they should be banned from the airshow circuit? Is it because of Eddie Andreini who landed his Stearman inverted and burned to death a few months back? In your expert opinion that was caused by his age? Do you know who Bud Granley is, or Bob Hoover? Do you realize how many pilots there are over 70 who fly surface aerobatics? You must have all kinds of knowledge about these guys crashing due to their advanced age that none of the rest of us do. ;) Do you know about the 47 year old guy who G-LOC'd (that means G-induced loss of consciousness, BTW) in his Yak 55 and killed himself at an airshow a few months ago? Maybe we should ban those over 40 from flying air shows. Clearly not fit enough to be flying "low level" aerobatics.

Maybe one day you can gain some real aerobatic experience and see certain things for yourself. If you think maneuvering close to the ground cannot be safely done after a certain age, then I guess you'll be lobbying to prevent 70 year olds from taking off and landing airplanes. We must save them from themselves. ;)
 
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Whiff: I believe Sean has added a 50' AGL snap to his show this year. Swear I saw that at OSH but I can't say for sure. He does it from a small very shallow humpty at show center if memory serves.

Could be, I don't know. Sean does a lot of shoulder rolls that may be confused with snap rolls or tumbles to the uninitiated. He does some pure snaps too, but mostly shoulder rolls. But he may be snapping at 50' - that would not be a big deal at all for him. Bobby Younkin used to do a single snap roll on take off in Samson Pitts, pulling upward a bit from the surface.

I'll clarify what I was saying about low level snaps - when at low altitude, it's largely about trajectory and number of rotations. Doing multiple snaps on a descending line to very low altitude is very different from doing snaps on an acsending line after pulling up from the surface. One is taking high energy upward, the other is taking low energy downward. The latter is much more dangerous. Low level multiple snaps on a downline is what killed Nancy Lynn and Jim Leroy. I've never seen Sean come close to doing anything like that at such a low altitude.

70 year-old men (or women) flying low level aerobatics in 70 year-old planes in close proximity to spectators should not be allowed.

It's just stupid...an accident waiting to happen. And it has, over and over again.

:rolleyes2:
 
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Bobby Younkin used to do a single snap roll on take off in Samson Pitts, pulling upward a bit from the surface.

To relate this to the thread subject somewhat, Bobby, his daughter, and his airshow partner Jimmy Franklin all died doing low-level aerobatics.
 
To relate this to the thread subject somewhat, Bobby, his daughter, and his airshow partner Jimmy Franklin all died doing low-level aerobatics.
I know 5 guys who died working at their desks as engineers, and none of them were 70 years old. I didn't realize Engineering was so hazardous.

I have had family members killed in single car accidents while driving home from their mundane jobs.

So?

Life is tough, some kids stay on the porch and experience nothing, some kids need to wear a helmet, and some kids have all the fun.

The primary issue is most of the folks commenting appear to have zero aerobatic experience period, let alone competition level aerobatics, let alone airshow aerobatics - the result is uneducated spouting off with zero respect or comprehension of the preparation, training and dedication people actually put into this kind of flying. Probably scared of formation flying and IMC too.

'Gimp
 
To relate this to the thread subject somewhat, Bobby, his daughter, and his airshow partner Jimmy Franklin all died doing low-level aerobatics.

No they didn't. Jimmy Franklin and Bobby Younkin collided with each other at fairly high altitude. Amanda was a wing walker and didn't have time to get down and strap in the front cockpit as Kyle made an emergency landing after an engine out. She ended up balled up on the floor under the front panel and they couldn't get her out as a fire started as a result of the smoke oil pump continuing to run. Low level aerobatic maneuvering was not a contributing factor to either of these accidents.
 
Is base jumping dangerous? Never mind you aren't qualified to answer. Probably to scared to make to take a tandem ride. Some people would rather hide inside flying machines then get out and experience life and true human flight.
I know 5 guys who died working at their desks as engineers, and none of them were 70 years old. I didn't realize Engineering was so hazardous.

I have had family members killed in single car accidents while driving home from their mundane jobs.

So?

Life is tough, some kids stay on the porch and experience nothing, some kids need to wear a helmet, and some kids have all the fun.

The primary issue is most of the folks commenting appear to have zero aerobatic experience period, let alone competition level aerobatics, let alone airshow aerobatics - the result is uneducated spouting off with zero respect or comprehension of the preparation, training and dedication people actually put into this kind of flying. Probably scared of formation flying and IMC too.

'Gimp
 
The aerobatics aren't dangerous, the problem at low level is you don't have the time to recover from a mistake. Even the best humans make mistakes, and unfortunately aviation in general is intolerant of mistakes.

Aerobatics is just a process of turning energy into motion and back again. Top level Aerobatic planes are made to withstand more energy transfer than the human occupant can pull for before blacking out, so none of the moves are dangerous in that way. The real danger in aerobatics is actual at the other end of the scale when the energy has played out, and you don't have enough horsepower or altitude to recover flying energy before impacting terrain. Modern top level planes have a lot of horsepower and are very light.

So, while the risk level is quite high, being that what is at stake is your life, the actual danger factor for an airshow performance wavered pilot is considerably more reasonable, in line with motorcycle racing I suppose. Mind you, aerobatic planes are built pretty well and sometimes pilots walk away from flaming wrecks, but yes, every year there are fatalities.

What Henning says. If you want to be a top airshow pilot and you want to do that for many years you better accept the reality that there is a very real possibility you will someday get killed doing it. I would certainly be living each day as if it were my last were that my career.

Airshows now in my opinion are a lot more "safe" than they used to be. Somewhere there is a video of my great great uncle doing a triple snap roll in a 450 stearman right on the deck in the late 1940s. Scary ****ing close to the ground. You don't see as much of that anymore, because, well people got sick of watching their friends die.

The only person I've seen perform in the last 10 years that I would say is really pushing the envelope and is amazing they're still alive would be John Mohr in his stock Stearman routine.

dycUvWY.jpg
 
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Is base jumping dangerous? Never mind you aren't qualified to answer. Probably to scared to make to take a tandem ride. Some people would rather hide inside flying machines then get out and experience life and true human flight.
I personally draw the line at base jumping, for myself not something I would try but I don't judge those who do it. I have actually skydived - it was fun I just couldn't afford yet another expensive hobby at the time but I see why people like it, I don't judge them either.

We all have personal minimums, the key word being personal.

'Gimp
 
If you want to be a top airshow pilot and you want to do that for many years you better accept the reality that there is a very real possibility you will someday get killed doing it. I would certainly be living each day as if it were my last were that my career.

Yes.. there's the bottom line and (I think) the best answer to this thread.
 
Thank you for the replies everyone. I've always wanted to perform in airshows since I was little, but obviously don't want to get killed doing it. I think whifferdill made a good point that a lot of the accidents in the past couple years involved going past the performers gate and doing tumbles at a low altitude. I honestly hadn't even notice that until I watched some videos of Rob Holland; all he ever does near the ground is a couple aileron rolls or a high speed pass but no tumbles or rolls. Thanks for pointing that out whifferdill!
 
Question for all of you aerobatic pilots out there! What type of roll is this that Rob Holland does in the beginning of this video when he's near the ground? Also, what type of roll does he usually do on landing? Is that just an aileron roll? How dangerous are those near the ground?

Thank you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBecf3lr-Ss
 
Question for all of you aerobatic pilots out there! What type of roll is this that Rob Holland does in the beginning of this video when he's near the ground? Also, what type of roll does he usually do on landing? Is that just an aileron roll? How dangerous are those near the ground?

Thank you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBecf3lr-Ss

Rob only does two types of rolls very close to the ground, both are aileron rolls. He'll do consecutive straight and level rolls near the ground - where the airplane rolls without climbing or descending. He'll also do a landing where he touches down, pulls up for an aileron roll and lands again. This is basically a positive G roll where you pitch up slightly and apply aileron - airplane flies a parabolic arc while it rolls. That last one is the easy way to do a roll - and how 99% of recreational acro flyers do rolls.

How dangerous? Not very dangerous if you can do rolls in your sleep. Rolling on a straight-and-level flight path is a precision acro 101 skill. To do them at 20' AGL you need to be able to do them in your sleep, all without dropping a bit of altitude...every time. It's not the likely way that an airshow pilot is going to get killed.

A ribbon cut from inverted level flight can be more dangerous than doing a roll from the same height since during the ribbon cut your attention can possibly be more focused on the ribbon than your flight path near the ground.

Watching the horrible video of Mr. Andreini crash his Stearman during the inverted ribbon cut approach reminds me of the advice Bob Hoover gave to Sean Tucker many years ago about how he was doing his inverted ribbon cut - rolling inverted and then descending to ribbon height. Bob told Sean that he was going to kill himself one day doing that. Ever since, Sean effectively sets his height upright at ribbon height and then does a level half roll inverted. All set up for a stabilized inverted approach. No need to divide your attention between the ribbon, your descent rate, and proximity to the ground.

Hard to ever know precisely why Mr. Andreini flew his Stearman into the ground, but it sure looks a whole lot like divided attention and a shallow straight descent right into the ground similar to what Bob Hoover warned Sean about many years ago.
 
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Maybe...I've been wrong before and certainly will be again.

But I think there's a reason 70 year-olds aren't competing at a professional level in other physically demanding "sports" like they do in aviation. I'm 54 and my strength, stamina, coordination, etc. isn't anywhere close to what it was 25 years ago.

My issue with it isn't that they do it. It's that they do it in close proximity to people on the ground.

Unless someone can explain to me how doing airshow level aerobatics isn't more physically demanding that mowing the grass, I'll keep my "strong opinion spouted off (even though I) really don't have a clue what (I'm) talking about."

:wink2:

Aviation, even aerobatics, need not be physically demanding. You can fly a nice aerobatic show at 3g and under. Yeah, you can beat the crap out of yourself if you want to, but you don't have to. Airshow routines and audiences are choreographed and staged in such a way that if something goes wrong, the plane's energy won't carry it into the audience. Air shows are pretty safe for spectators.
 
Hard to ever know precisely why Mr. Andreini flew his Stearman into the ground, but it sure looks a whole lot like divided attention and a shallow straight descent right into the ground similar to what Bob Hoover warned Sean about many years ago.

Could be, but the crash wasn't what killed him.
 
Could be, but the crash wasn't what killed him.

It would be interesting to know if any of those "first responders" were fired, or disciplined in any way. Their pathetic response time killed that poor guy.

Watch the video, and time it. :nonod:
 
Could be, but the crash wasn't what killed him.

Depends on how you want to look at it. There have been lots of cases where the pilot survives the impact but dies in the resulting fire. It's never a good idea to hit the ground inverted or in any fashion that ruptures the fuel tank.

It would be interesting to know if any of those "first responders" were fired, or disciplined in any way. Their pathetic response time killed that poor guy.

Watch the video, and time it. :nonod:

The way the barriers were set up between the show and runway, the trucks had to drive around the world to get to the crash. It wasn't purely a response time issue. Organization and emergency response planning had a lot to do with it. That likely wan't done by the actual "first responders".
 
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I know, but it's never a good idea to hit the ground inverted.



The way the barriers were set up between the show and runway, the trucks had to drive around the world to get to the crash. It wasn't purely a response time issue. Organization and emergency response planning had a lot to do with it. That likely wan't done by the actual "first responders".

It is their job to assess the situation when on scene and make whatever changes necessary to assure timely access in an accident scenario. They are not faultless in the delay, their leader failed to do his job on arrival, that is assure that his team could do their job in a timely manner when called.
 
Hey Acrogimp,
If low level acro is not dangerous and has no risk maybe you should roll that Citabria upside down at 20 feet and send us a video. It shouldn't be a problem with your experience.
 
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