How can a pilot "forget" to put down gear in C510?

Nick Pilotte said:
Like I said, he apparently had an issue with flaps inop, and to me, it sounds like a massive helmet fire. There is an abnormal flaps procedure in the manual, and (don’t quote me on the exact speed) you can drop the gear at some crazy speed, I think over 275kts to slow down. Between those and speed brakes that are standard, he should have been able to land easily on that runway (7k+ feet). Even factoring 1.75x for typical landing distance, 4K’ is easily attainable.
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In the Mustang you can put the gear down at any speed below the barber pole (250KIAS)
 
I'll have to double check next time I fly but I think the gear horn sounds through the intercom also in the Mustang. Either way, it is very noticeable even when wearing Bose A20s or ProFlight headsets (I have and use both) with ANR on.
 
When I am flying solo in my old Bonanza, I reduce power on downwind below 15" until the gear horn starts to blow, when the gear comes down, the horn stops blowing. No problem hearing the horn with anr headsets.
 
Sac Arrow said:
There is a Youtube out there of a cockpit view of a Trinidad landing with two people in the cockpit, with the gear up warning horn blaring, all the way down to when the plane hit the runway.
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I love one of the comments: "You can tell that you did a gear up landing because it takes a lot more power to taxi afterward. :)"
 
RudyP said:
Pilot claimed to investigators that the horn did not activate... I suppose the breaker could have popped but that sounds less likely than him screwing the pooch.
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Let's examine that statement. The pilot obviously didn't use a before landing checklist. Next, he claims the gear warning system didn't work.

It's easy to make the conclusion that he relies on the horn, not the checklist.
 
I'm willing to bet that in some cases the pilot doesn't hear the warning go off. Not didn't notice, but didn't hear it. People's ability to tune out distractions when focusing on something, or under stress, is pretty impressive. Tunnel vision, time dilation and reduced hearing sensitivity are all responses to stress.

Anecdotal example - An acquaintance of mine was a firearms instructor for one of the middle state's state police departments. When they first introduced pepper spray, each recruit had to go through a drill with it. The first time they were sprayed, knowing in advance they were going to be sprayed, half of them dropped their duty weapon. Or in other words, the OC spray has a pretty decent impact. But...in actual shootings, from interviews afterword, most of the time when someone was sprayed with OC, they didn't even realize they were sprayed until AFTER the event was over. That may be an extreme example, but some people do seem to be a bit white knuckle or "tuned out" when they're in landing mode.
 
I am working on inventing a device that electrifies the throttle knob and if you don't have the gear down below 10 inches of manifold pressure, it shocks you.
Video in the works.
 
Didn't Piper for a little bit have some automatic gear down thing on certain models of arrows?
 
Tantalum said:
Didn't Piper for a little bit have some automatic gear down thing on certain models of arrows?
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Yes it does and also an STC to disable it…also a big lawsuit where a deceased pilots family said he could of glided to a suitable landing area vs going into the trees because it chunked the gear out during an engine failure…first thing I did with my Arrow. I believe the Lance on some models as well…
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I am working on inventing a device that electrifies the throttle knob and if you don't have the gear down below 10 inches of manifold pressure, it shocks you.
Video in the works.
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I think you need to make it the yoke. I don’t keep my hand on the throttle unless a CFI is in the right seat.
 
At the risk of sounding judgemental: a "pilot" should be able to fly an airplane into the ground at a survivable attitude (hopefully in the form of a forced landing) without engine power, get from one airport to another (or the seaplane equivalent of the same) without running out of fuel, aviate without radios and warning devices, and fly VFR without any instrumentation whatsoever.

Reading accident reports, it seems some were not taught-- or didn't internalize-- "Aviate - Navigate - Communicate." It is easy to get flustered in an unexpected situation. That is why standard procedures and training were developed 90 years ago.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I am working on inventing a device that electrifies the throttle knob and if you don't have the gear down below 10 inches of manifold pressure, it shocks you.
Video in the works.
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That sounds like a nice alternative, and the video should be fun to watch.

You do know that some will have it installed only to say after a gear-up, “my plane had a short - I felt it in the throttle lever - and the gear wouldn’t come down” or “my throttle shocker failed to work and I forgot the gear”.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
40 years ago?? I had a rental checkout 15 years ago with a crusty ex-military instructor who wouldn’t allow the use of headsets and insisted on the handheld mic and crappy overhead speaker, because “this generation of pilots wouldn’t know how to handle the plane and communicate if their headset quit working.”
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What stinks is being told the evils of ANRs or other protective hearing by someone that hasn’t lost their hearing from all the noise. They haven’t lost their hearing, so no one can. Their day will come, later in life.
 
Tantalum said:
Okay.. so one (maybe two if we count the military jet above) occurrences of accident causing poor configurations in big planes, and both examples are decades-old
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There are probably more, but sure there are more light plane gear ups. I don't think it has so much to do with the airplane but the skill level and the procedure differences between the two.
(An having multiple pilots).

A little googling finds at least five more airline and two more military failure to use the rollers.
 
3393RP said:
Let's examine that statement. The pilot obviously didn't use a before landing checklist. Next, he claims the gear warning system didn't work.

It's easy to make the conclusion that he relies on the horn, not the checklist.
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My standard for signing off on a complex endorsement has been never hearing the gear horn (unless it was for practicing the abnormal gear extension procedure).
 
donjohnston said:
I bet you're the kind of guy who drives the speed limit in the left lane just to make sure everyone else doesn't exceed the speed limit too.
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I know Tantalum in real life and he is definitely NOT that kind of person. Those people suck a lot.
 
donjohnston said:
I bet you're the kind of guy who drives the speed limit in the left lane just to make sure everyone else doesn't exceed the speed limit too.
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None of that makes any sense but thanks for trying
 
(1) speed limits should be abolished - not hyperbole; there is zero correlation in speed limits and road safety
(2) the left lane is strictly for passing
(3) not the first time Don has proposed a conclusion that doesn't follow a premise

and while we're on the topic of comparing flying to driving, people who forget to put the gear down are in the same camp as people who don't use turn signals, or worse, leave them on
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I am working on inventing a device that electrifies the throttle knob and if you don't have the gear down below 10 inches of manifold pressure, it shocks you.
Video in the works.
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Here is an audio alert guidance system that integrates into your internal GPS WAAS system to remind you of critical check list items.

 
I have a LIDAR altimeter. I has an output for experimentals that drops the gear at a certain altitude AGL. If I had a retract, I would wire that up and disconnect it before each annual, and reconnect after signoff. That altimeter is brilliant.
 
LesGawlik said:
I have a LIDAR altimeter. I has an output for experimentals that drops the gear at a certain altitude AGL. If I had a retract, I would wire that up and disconnect it before each annual, and reconnect after signoff. That altimeter is brilliant.
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So, does the 5G interference kerfuffel with LIDAR make the gear go up when you really want it down, or vice-versa???

:stirpot:
 
A LCDR from the UK was demonstrating a Harrier at open house at NAS Pensacola a while back. Did some high speed passes, then some hovering around. Then hovered over to parking. Guess what he forgot.
 
Tantalum said:
Okay.. so one (maybe two if we count the military jet above) occurrences of accident causing poor configurations in big planes, and both examples are decades-old

Everyone can make a mistake, but we ought to hold ourselves to a better standard versus the 'it can happen to anyone' resignation

I will continue to severely admonish those who make this mistake, and should I ever do so myself I'll likely give up flying
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Why wait?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Why wait?
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On the stopping flying? Or the gear up? Or just get both over with?!

donjohnston said:
Although why you would want to do this is beyond me.
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Accidents happen, but we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard and own up to it when it does happen not blame an errant horn or some other issue. This is the one area that seems collectively most pilots are so willing to forgive for some reason

It is what it is I guess. Time for a drink
 
Eh. A person is free to set such parameters for himself. I don't see a benefit for strangers to publicly admonish him. I don’t think any wheels up landings would be prevented out of fear that Bob from the POA would be disappointed.
 
Maxnr said:
A LCDR from the UK was demonstrating a Harrier at open house at NAS Pensacola a while back. Did some high speed passes, then some hovering around. Then hovered over to parking. Guess what he forgot.
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I've heard a similar story. Details may differ, but since the canopy seal deflates with weight on wheels and the WOW bypass is in the main wheelwell the version I heard went into the hijinks that ensued to extract the pilot. Of course the story starts with "TINS" so who knows the truth?

Nauga,
and the joke about blowing a seal
 
Tantalum said:
(1) speed limits should be abolished - not hyperbole; there is zero correlation in speed limits and road safety
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However, there is a direct correlation between speed differential and road safety. So having Tantalum out doing 140 in his hot rod and granny doing 55 in the old Caddy does cause problems.
 
Tantalum said:
On the stopping flying? Or the gear up? Or just get both over with?!


Accidents happen, but we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard and own up to it when it does happen not blame an errant horn or some other issue. This is the one area that seems collectively most pilots are so willing to forgive for some reason

It is what it is I guess. Time for a drink
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Whichever one floats your boat. If flying means so little to you that gearing one up makes you quit why bother at all? You fly enough you’ll eventually bugger something. No reason to wait for hard evidence.
 
woodchucker said:
However, there is a direct correlation between speed differential and road safety. So having Tantalum out doing 140 in his hot rod and granny doing 55 in the old Caddy does cause problems.
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Granny can take side roads then.
 
MauleSkinner said:
“Side road” being any one that you’re not on?
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"Side road" being any non limited-access road. If you're gonna go 30mph slower than traffic around you take a different route. It's why I don't ride my motorcycle on the interstate, I'm not going to be doing 80 on it. So I take a side road and take it slow and easy. Which is what granny should do if she's going to poke-ass along. I don't get upset when people do considerably under the speed limit on side/back roads.
 
EdFred said:
"Side road" being any non limited-access road. If you're gonna go 30mph slower than traffic around you take a different route. It's why I don't ride my motorcycle on the interstate, I'm not going to be doing 80 on it. So I take a side road and take it slow and easy. Which is what granny should do if she's going to poke-ass along. I don't get upset when people do considerably under the speed limit on side/back roads.
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Where was it stated that granny doing 55 was below the speed limit?
 
donjohnston said:
Where was it stated that granny doing 55 was below the speed limit?
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It never was. I also never said anything about doing under the speed limit on limited access highways, only doing 30mph slower than other traffic. And if you are, maybe a limited access highway isn't a place for you.
 
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