Honda’s Best Kept Secret?

[FastEddieB]

Seems to me to most likely be the tyres that are different here? I suspect that EVs come with tyres that are optimised for low rolling resistance.

This came up on a Facebook post where a Clarity owner hit some “black ice”, ended up in a ditch and blamed his tires.

Granted, tread pattern and rubber compound make a big difference in mud and snow - anywhere where “grip” makes a difference. Hence the effectiveness of “snow tires”. But I’ve always been under the impression that all bets are off with ice.

Is that not correct?

 

[FastEddieB]

I guess all I'd say is, good on ya, hybrids with regeneration are probably the future, but they ain't as "clean" as some of their proponents think. And yes, I think you do have to consider the total energy cost and emissions required to make the technology. That's usually overlooked, but it is significant.

My experience is that most EV “proponents” are knowledgeable enough to understand the full scope of EV “cleanliness”, and don’t “overlook” anything.

That said, this is a case of “The perfect being the enemy of the good”. Every little bit helps, and going forward we can only expect further gains in efficiency.

 

[SCCutler]

It seems to me that there are lots of people who see red when they hear about electric cars; I get it, because there are a lot of folks who, for reasonably good reasons, object to the staggering amount of public money that is gone into financing private business in the development of some of these businesses. But that's politics, and it will always be thus.

Based upon my observations of people I know who use electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles, I believe that the principal benefit of electric vehicles is that they are, for the uses to which most drivers put such vehicles, providing a superior driving and operating experience. I look at my daily driving patterns, for example, and I believe that I could take care of 95% of my driving with either a pure electric, or a hybrid electric vehicle, and it would certainly cost me less in daily driving expense.

On the other hand, everything I drive, I own free and clear, and I don't drive enough miles for the difference in direct operating cost between gasoline electric to make a meaningful difference to me. So I drive an old BMW is a daily driver, and I have an old suburban as my backup/utility vehicle. If I were buying a brand-new car now, I would certainly be considering electric, although I'm frustrated that there is nothing that really meets my core desires very well; I was at a Tesla showroom in Dallas last week, and looking at the Model 3. Larger inside than I realized, and that is good, I still put off by the Center-mounted all-in-one display screen (which looks like they took it off the rack at Micro Center), but I am assured by people who drive them that the off-center location does not create a meaningful distraction. I am a fan of clean styling, but the Tesla 3 takes it to an extreme I'm not sure I'm ready to embrace, as well.

The main thing though is that you cannot get a Model 3 with any meaningful useful range for less than around $50,000 maybe they will become less-costly in the used car market, but that remains to be seen.

I remain concerned about the long-term stability of Tesla as a company, but I think they will be around in some form, so I don't worry about having an orphan vehicle.

As for the life of batteries, as Kent alluded to above, electric vehicle batteries seem to be lasting a lot longer than anyone expected. The Toyota previous fleet is a great laboratory, and it is not at all uncommon to see these vehicles going several hundred thousand miles without battery replacement, including (or especially) in heavy-duty fleet use.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the used-car marketplace; I think, based upon their relative simplicity and the dramatically reduced wear part count, that pure electric vehicles, properly maintained, could have outstanding longevity.

 

[Ted]

Will any car “stop on ice"? Short of one with chains or studs?

It depends on just what level of ice there is as well as the tires you have. My experience is yes, but the catch is being very, very ginger on the brakes and essentially coasting to a stop. Generally, though it's some level of ice/snow/mix/something, which offers a little better traction than pure ice.

The best thing to do for winter if you can is certainly studded tires or chains. Best vehicle I've ever had in the winter was my 3000GT VR-4. I had a set of studded snow tires I could put on in the winter. Things were stupid loud, but the thing worked great. I did once hit a patch of really bad ice in the PA mountains that caused some swerving, but still was able to recover just fine. That was the worst I ever had - most of the time normal snow/ice/whatever mix felt little different from standard paved roads.

@Ted DuPuis

Even 40 miles each way to the airport is well within the range of most EVs in the market today. You just need one that is 200 miles plus to have wiggle room. And for that, you only have to pick from a dozen models....

Sure, and I could plug the thing in to charge while I'm doing whatever I'm doing at the airport (and let it get topped off while I'm off saving puppies/kitties/alligators). But given the kind of driving I do (it's not uncommon to go "Oh, I have to drive 200 miles in a day" and have it sneak up on me with one thing after another, it's not practical to have a pure EV.

More to @SCCutler 's point above, the costs are still higher than we're willing to pay with not enough benefit. We have two old Mercedes that we own free and clear, and the Ram we have a payment on but that's it. No EV/hybrid does what the Ram can do, so we'd have to look at replacing one of the Mercedes, which back to the cost aspect.

 

[tspear]

Sure, and I could plug the thing in to charge while I'm doing whatever I'm doing at the airport (and let it get topped off while I'm off saving puppies/kitties/alligators). But given the kind of driving I do (it's not uncommon to go "Oh, I have to drive 200 miles in a day" and have it sneak up on me with one thing after another, it's not practical to have a pure EV.

No, you charge the car every night when you get home. With your gadget interests; I would assume you would even spend the extra couple hundred bucks and wireless car charger. Just pull into your spot at home and it starts charging. Therefore, the car will always be ready for that 200 mile trip. As for airports, not sure out in the Midwest; but I see more and more Hydra style electric charging spots at the airports (one charger with up to eight spots, it only charges one car at a time).

And, electric pickups are now in the market. e.g. Workhorse is one that has had the press. There are a few others.

However, unless you drive a lot; or you are at the point the point of replacing a vehicle. Then purchasing an EV for the sake of purchasing an EV will generally not make financial sense.

Tim

 

[asicer]

It depends on just what level of ice there is as well as the tires you have. My experience is yes, but the catch is being very, very ginger on the brakes and essentially coasting to a stop. Generally, though it's some level of ice/snow/mix/something, which offers a little better traction than pure ice.

My understanding is that with modern ABS systems you just stomp on the brakes and the computer figures out the rest. The catch is that the stopping distance and directional control will be pretty much the same as properly using your technique.

 

[Ted]

My understanding is that with modern ABS systems you just stomp on the brakes and the computer figures out the rest. The catch is that the stopping distance and directional control will be pretty much the same as properly using your technique.

I've tested that theory with my vehicles. I've found that a good driver who knows how to modulate the brake and not get into ABS will still do better. IOW, if I just slam the brakes I may maintain directional control fine still, but it will take longer to stop.

I've found this to be essentially universal, but since ABS is only as good as the programmer and the system design, it is possible that other vehicles could do better. Testing is important.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

But this just exemplifies the level of involvement with the car that I find enjoyable. With gas this cheap, still under $2/gal around us, we don’t sweat gas usage but enjoy trying to minimize it for giggles.

Yeah, it does kinda make driving into a fun game.

One of our common “mission profiles” is a 95 mile drive between N GA and E TN. We usually drive in EV mode until EV miles remaining hits 10, then switch to HV, which holds the battery at about that level. Then switch back to EV about 10 miles from home to arrive home with little if any EV charge remaining*. On such a drive, we typically use between 1 and 1.5 gals of gas, compared to about 5 gals in our other vehicles.

*Its death for these Lithium Ion batteries to fully discharge. The car knows that and stops discharging with a healthy reserve, even with 0 EV miles remaining.

Right... So you don't need to worry about it yourself. If you used any gas on your trip and you get home with any EV miles remaining, that means you burned gas that you didn't need to burn.

But, overall your strategy is probably good, assuming you've got 10 miles of off-highway driving at the end of your trip. The gas engine will be at its most efficient on the highway, so the best thing to do on a long trip with highway driving involved is to drive from origin to highway, accelerate up to speed, and switch it over to whatever the "hold charge" mode is, then when you're about to get off the highway switch it back to EV mode. If you have enough range that you won't use it all in the off-highway segments, then use EV mode some more on the highway.

For those of you who aren't geeks, you don't need to do this, the car will switch on its own, but it'll go full EV until the battery runs out and then switch on the engine, so on a trip of this nature it won't be as efficient as switching manually.

As an aside, I don’t recall making a point of the “green” factor of EV’s in the OP. That played only a very small part, if any, in our purchase decision. But it’s a nice side benefit if it helps the environment, even if in a very small way.

Right... But the FUDsters have assumed that that's the only reason anyone would drive an electric car, so they've put out enough FUD on the subject that the conversation invariably turns that way. I don't drive EVs because they're "green", I drive them because they're smooth, quiet, and fun!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The main thing though is that you cannot get a Model 3 with any meaningful useful range for less than around $50,000 maybe they will become less-costly in the used car market, but that remains to be seen.

Huh? The "mid range" (260 mile) Model 3 currently starts at $42,900.

The 3 did start out with a base price of $49,000 when they were only making the long range version and the only options you could choose from were color, wheels, and whether or not to unlock Autopilot, but since Tesla doesn't do things in model years like other car companies do, you have to treat it more like a tech company - Blink and you'll miss the changes!

FWIW, the long-range one now starts at $49,900, but it also has AWD now.

 

[FastEddieB]

Thanks for the validation- it’s spot on.

Karen and I just ran some errands. With a full charge, the Clarity’s “Guess-o-Meter” was guesstimating an EV range of 42 miles. In fact, we drove 48.7 miles and still showed 9.2 miles remaining*. You can do a lot of local running around with 57+ miles of range. And it’s not like the car turns into a pumpkin at that point - it just converts to a hybrid that still gets around 40 mpg.

*As I said upthread, the car bases it’s estimates on recent driving habits. So I think it’s still “remembering” our somewhat spirited recent blitz over the mountains in its calculations.

 

[SCCutler]

Huh? The "mid range" (260 mile) Model 3 currently starts at $42,900.

Just relating what the hip, no-socks sales weenie said.

The 3 did start out with a base price of $49,000 when they were only making the long range version and the only options you could choose from were color, wheels, and whether or not to unlock Autopilot, but since Tesla doesn't do things in model years like other car companies do, you have to treat it more like a tech company - Blink and you'll miss the changes!

FWIW, the long-range one now starts at $49,900, but it also has AWD now.

Heavy sigh.

I like the tech, and I admit that there is some appeal in the minimalist styling, but a $50k car that looks pretty much like a last-generation Dodge (Fiat) Dart?

I'm still ****ed off that they never delivered the S at the price they promised ab initio.

Get off my lawn!

 

[Ted]

Yeah, it does kinda make driving into a fun game.

It's a different kind of game.

Driving has always been a fun game, but what used to be fun is the man-machine interaction and mastering that. As a society we've been trying to remove that because if we only sold cars to good drivers, you'd never sell enough of them. We've decided driving is a right in this society, rather than a privilege (and to be fair our society is designed in such a way that necessitates it). So we've mandated getting as much of that man-machine interaction out of the game as we can to account for the bad drivers. Since a lot of good drivers don't care, they've gone along other than people like me.

When you do that, what you're left with is trying to play games around efficiency, which you were able to do before in a different manner. Now they've gotten more complex because you can regen (as opposed to just coast), plug in at home, and with the big screens and instant readouts of your statistics, you get that mental shot of dopamine when you see the system go to regen and see your electric range go up instead of down.

The most fun car I've had remains my first car - my '82 XJ-S V12. Loads of power, rear wheel drive, none of that traction control computer ABS crap, limited slip differential, and rusty enough that I drove it year round in the snow.

Now, like @SCCutler said, get off my lawn!

 

[FastEddieB]

If there’s confusion over Tesla pricing, it’s no surprise!

https://insideevs.com/tesla-advertises-optimistic-model-3-prices/

 

[Spring Ford]

Hence the effectiveness of “snow tires”. But I’ve always been under the impression that all bets are off with ice.

Is that not correct?

I don't know if different tyres have different performance on ice. Ice is not one thing either. Varies a lot with the temperature.

It would clearly be a problem if you couldn't turn off the regenerative braking on lift-off-of-throttle if it was very slippery.

You want to be able to keep the wheels turning.

Maybe there should be a Red Button!?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Just relating what the hip, no-socks sales weenie said.

And he was probably right... At the time. The mid-range model came out late last year, and there have been two price reductions since then too.

I'm still ****ed off that they never delivered the S at the price they promised ab initio.

They actually did, for about a second. But, you would have had to order it in the *very* brief period in which the Model S 40 was available, and wait a long time to get it, and you would be among the few people who didn't get free Supercharging for life - Actually, I don't think the 40 was allowed to have Supercharging access at all.

So, it was somewhat of a unicorn, and not a desirable one. I kind of doubt any of them remain, since Tesla actually decided to sell them at a loss with a software-locked 60kWh battery rather than screw up production with a third battery configuration. So, any of them that were leased and came back would have been sold as used 60s. I've only ever seen one 40 for sale used, and it didn't go through Tesla.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It's a different kind of game.

Driving has always been a fun game, but what used to be fun is the man-machine interaction and mastering that.

It still is, just in a different way. I've actually never owned a traditional automatic transmission - I went straight from stick-shift to plug-in with a CVT. And of course I've driven the big iron and learned to float a 13-speed (and a bunch of 10s).

To me, much like flying, it's all about learning how the systems work, and using them to your advantage. Just because there are more systems doesn't necessarily mean you're losing anything, in fact, I find it's more of an intellectual exercise than ever interacting with the machine... And while some systems are automated, they generally can be turned off and/or they get out of your way unless you get in trouble. I actually really enjoyed playing around with the Tesla Autopilot and one of the more fun moments I've ever had with the car was when I realized I had "taught" it something. Pretty damn cool, IMO.

Now, since my degree is in EE, maybe I have more of an appreciation for some of that stuff than an ME who loves to grind gears. But the interaction is still there just as much as ever, it's just a slightly different skill set being used to enjoy it.

 

[FastEddieB]

An example of how the Clarity bases estimated EV miles based on recent drives:

You may recall that yesterday at the start of our drive the estimate was 42 miles of EV range. Driving yesterday in my “geriatric mode” paid off!

 

[RJM62]

For sure, and I agree, I’m all for being nice to the environment, it is a good thing no doubt, I was actually going to build up a bio diesel rig years ago and seriously looked into using the river by my place and different window treatments etc to try to get my place off “the grid”, the cold math just didn’t make sense in my particular situation, with my exact house and location.

My issue is the religious like cult that “green” has become, I mean questinging ethanol or EVs or climate prediction models that fell short, or whatever is treated like legit blasphemy by some folks. I also know many of these “green” products are very much a $$$ industry and thus some people have conflicts of interest.

I can recall a few conversations I had some some hardcore environment folks who were talking all the stuff you hear on the news, driving Prius and all, but when I asked them about what their position was on the tons of salt on the roads, even when it’s too cold to help, or Canada dumping raw sewage into the river, or why we still push ethanol, or a few other things, they didn’t have much info on those subjects with are right in their own backyard.

When science turns to a religion like cause I think we loose sight of the real meat and tatters of the issue

I was thinking about a plug-in hybrid a few months back, but the math didn't work out. But before I came to that conclusion, I talked it over with some kids at SUNY Delhi (they have a pretty good automotive program) to get their advice. They treated me like some kind of messiah: an older guy with a gray beard who wanted to be "green."

Not being one to accept accolades I don't deserve, I told them I cared more about saving money on fuel than about whatever infinitesimal difference in emissions the car would generate.

You'd have thought I'd suddenly developed leprosy. I went from hero to villain in a second flat. It didn't matter that I was considering doing something that they believed, at least, would be good for Mother Earth. I also had to believe as they did for my doing to mean anything.

That's religion. It's even in the Bible:

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. (Romans 3:27-28)

Now, just because it's religion doesn't mean it's wrong. I'll keep my thoughts about climate change to myself to avoid politicizing this thread, but I will say that I'm somewhere in the middle. What's problematic about it is that it clouds more objective analysis (such as the total acquisition and operating cost of the car and its overall reliability) when the person you're talking to has some religiously-based vested interest in the purchase.

For me, once I did the math, it simply didn't make economic sense.

The OP's vehicle, however, might have. It has about twice the EV range of the Niro PUH, which would make a huge difference in my gasoline use while still preserving the ability to make 300-mile trips without having to plan three or four hours of twiddling my thumbs in a gas station waiting for the car to charge into the itinerary.

Moreover, with the $300.00 fast charger and a couple of hours labor running the wiring, I could fully charge overnight when the electric rates are much lower, and the car would always be ready in the morning.

The OP's Honda also would allow me to extend my EV radius out to the first ring from center, what I call Greater Sparrow Fart, rather than only the Village of Sparrow Fart itself. In practical terms, that would mean that the great majority of my trips would be doable on all or almost-all electricity.

Even the next ring out would be doable one-way on all or almost all electricity (and maybe the return trip if I could mooch some juice on the other end, assuming I was going to be there long enough).

So yeah, this car has my interest. That's not to say I'm going to run out and buy one, but I can say that I probably would have if I'd known about it when I was in that mood.

Rich

 

[JOhnH]

So yeah, this car has my interest. That's not to say I'm going to run out and buy one, but I can say that I probably would have if I'd known about it when I was in that mood.

Rich

#metoo

 

[DeeG]

We have the cheapest electric rates in the country, thanks to the three hydro dams in our county. But my car has to have AWD and at least 275 minimum miles per tank/charge. Has to be able to tow a 4x8 trailer with roughly 800 lbs on the trailer. Has to be a small SUV style. And when I'm heading to MN or SoCal, it needs to be able to charge from near zero to full capacity in the amount of time it takes to fill a 15 gallon tank. And it has to cost less than $35,000, because an $80,000 Tesla is never going to be in the budget. I have yet to see anything like that. When I do, then I'll think about it.

 

[JOhnH]

We have the cheapest electric rates in the country, thanks to the three hydro dams in our county. But my car has to have AWD and at least 275 minimum miles per tank/charge. Has to be able to tow a 4x8 trailer with roughly 800 lbs on the trailer. Has to be a small SUV style. And when I'm heading to MN or SoCal, it needs to be able to charge from near zero to full capacity in the amount of time it takes to fill a 15 gallon tank. And it has to cost less than $35,000, because an $80,000 Tesla is never going to be in the budget. I have yet to see anything like that. When I do, then I'll think about it.

Them's tuff requirements for any new vehicle that sports a 15 gallon tank, but if they made and EV to do that, I'd sure think about it too.

Why is such a rapid recharge a must have? I doubt that will ever happen until Blue Rhino starts hot-swapping batteries.

 

[zaitcev]

Which comes full circle to the title of this thread - it sure seems like Honda is actively trying NOT to sell Clarity’s.

Your own chart shows that they sell more Clariies than Toyota sells Primus PHEVs. That said, I didn't realize that a gasoline-powered Clarity was even a thing. The nameplate used to be reserved for Hydrogen-powered fuel-cell car.

 

[zaitcev]

I've tested that theory with my vehicles. I've found that a good driver who knows how to modulate the brake and not get into ABS will still do better.

Where did I hear that schpiel before

 

[SCCutler]

And he was probably right... At the time. The mid-range model came out late last year, and there have been two price reductions since then too.

It was, like, eight days ago.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It was, like, eight days ago.

Wow. Fail. Although I think at least one of those price reductions may have been in the last 8 days.

 

[RJM62]

We have the cheapest electric rates in the country, thanks to the three hydro dams in our county. But my car has to have AWD and at least 275 minimum miles per tank/charge. Has to be able to tow a 4x8 trailer with roughly 800 lbs on the trailer. Has to be a small SUV style. And when I'm heading to MN or SoCal, it needs to be able to charge from near zero to full capacity in the amount of time it takes to fill a 15 gallon tank. And it has to cost less than $35,000, because an $80,000 Tesla is never going to be in the budget. I have yet to see anything like that. When I do, then I'll think about it.

I think it has to be looked at in terms of "ideal" versus "better," even possibly including having a second car for some purposes. It would depend a lot on the individual needs.

For example, I also have to tow, but only occasionally. I factored that into all the calculations I did, and it was one of the reasons none of them worked out. But if I were saving enough money on a plug-in hybrid to justify a second vehicle for towing (or renting one when I needed to tow), I'd consider it.

For me, it didn't work out with any of the candidate vehicles. My present car gets about 35 - 37 mpg unladen and about 23 mpg to 27 mpg towing, depending more on the ramp position than the weight. Few plug-in hybrids small enough to save me any money even allow towing without risking warranty problems, much less do it well or economically; so that would mean either renting tow vehicles (usually trucks where I live) or owning a second car. Even if I were to use the trailer only three or four times a year with a rented truck to tow it, it would eat up all or most of the savings; and the savings certainly wouldn't justify a second vehicle.

The OP's Honda might come closer. I'd have to do the math again and also check to see what, if any towing capacity it has. The next time I'm in the mood to spend money (something which doesn't happen too often), maybe I will.

Rich

 

[FastEddieB]

Towing is not authorized for the Clarity PHEV.

People have installed receivers for bike racks, but that’s about it.

We’re a few years away from electric or hybrid pickups. I’d hope they’re designed with towing in mind.

Here’s one that may be out soon, allegedly with 11,000 lb towing capacity.

https://electrek.co/2018/11/29/rivian-r1t-electric-pickup-truck-order/

But I’d think the major manufacturers are all over electric and hybrid pickups - it’s a gargantuan potential market. If Honda does come out with a PHEV Pilot, a PHEV Ridgeline built on the same platform seems like a no-brainer.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Towing is not authorized for the Clarity PHEV.

That's a big shortcoming of EVs right now. Whether there's actually a limitation or whether they just weren't designing with that in mind, most EVs can't tow anything.

The only exception I know of is the Tesla Model X, which can tow up to 5,000 pounds.

 

[SCCutler]

That's a big shortcoming of EVs right now. Whether there's actually a limitation or whether they just weren't designing with that in mind, most EVs can't tow anything.

The only exception I know of is the Tesla Model X, which can tow up to 5,000 pounds.

Interesting; I bet it's more in the nature of walking before they run, because it seems to me that electric vehicles, with their instantaneous available torque, would be best-suited to towing. Kinda like, y'know, an EMD Model F locomotive!

 

[Crashnburn]

I bought my 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid new. It now has 135,137 miles on it (last I looked). I'm still on the original battery, which, I think, had an 80K warranty on it. I'm currently getting about 27 MPG. It has a D mode, and a B mode.

D mode is for the highway. The engine will stop after a few seconds when you're stopped, and you can also use cruise control. It eats tires. It took me a while to realize why - its the extra weight of the batteries, and the electric motor. But, as I don't accelerate, nor brake hard, the brakes seem to last forever.

The ICE never charges the battery directly. It runs the wheels, and when you are in B mode, when you take your foot off the accelerator, it goes into regen mode.

I had one bit of excitement when trying to stop on ice. I was driving on an icy road in KS, and waited too long to put on the brakes (I started braking at my normal point), and I could see I was going to stop in the middle of an intersection. There wasn't any traffic coming, so I just took my foot off the brake, and started driving. I was a lot more careful about stopping in icy weather, and never had a problem since.

My wife drives a 2008 Toyota Highlander, not hybrid. She gets about 17 MPG. She has a heavier foot than I do, and her tires are softer than mine (in fact, I know when she stops complaining about the ride, it's time to check my air pressure.) She's also in outside sales, so she's on the road a lot, so the engine usually never cools down during the day. Her engine is about the same size as mine. My commute is about 20 miles, round trip, mostly highway, minimal traffic. When I had an 80 mile roundtrip commute, I got up to 34 MPG (but only once).

I do like having a hybrid. When we bought it, there was a major price difference between hybrids and ICE, but the tax credit took care of the difference. When we bought her Highlander, you'd have to drive the car into the ground to make up the difference.

About 18 months ago, my sister priced Highlanders, and there was about a hundred dollars difference more for hybrid than for ICE. At that differential, a hybrid is a no-brainer.

Oh, and it's not a plug-in hybrid, either. So any extra mileage comes from recovering energy while slowing down and braking.

 

[FastEddieB]

Honda recently dropped this little video on the 2019 Clarity*:

On the Clarity EVS subforum, people think it’s pretty accurate - except for the part about visiting your local dealer for more information. They are, for the most part, pretty uninformed about the vehicle’s unique capabilities and requirements.

*Essentially unchanged from the 2018.

 

[DeeG]

Why is such a rapid recharge a must have? I doubt that will ever happen until Blue Rhino starts hot-swapping batteries.

We use the car to travel to MN and CA. When we stop for fuel, we don't linger. Fuel, pee, and we're gone. If we need to eat, we find a grocery store and pick up deli type stuff. No spending an hour or so at a restaurant (unless we're stopped for the night). And when your trying to get 1600 miles in less than 2 days, having to wait and hour or three to charge the vehicle... that's just too damned long. If I could do about 700-1000 on a charge and then recharge overnight (6-8 hours) then that would be a good thing.

 

[gkainz]

Why hasn't solar panels in or on the EV become a thing? Solar panels on RVs have been around for a long time.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

If I could do about 700-1000 on a charge and then recharge overnight (6-8 hours) then that would be a good thing.

Well, the new Roadster is supposed to have 620 miles of range. Sounds like a good excuse to buy one.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Why hasn't solar panels in or on the EV become a thing? Solar panels on RVs have been around for a long time.

They would, under the best of circumstances, give you maybe 5 miles of range per DAY. It's way more cost-effective to put panels on your house if you're looking for solar power, and it's just not practical to have them on the car if the goal is extra range - The extra weight would likely eliminate any extra range you'd get.

My detailed analysis and answer is here: https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-Te..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=3958035959

 

[gkainz]

They would, under the best of circumstances, give you maybe 5 miles of range per DAY. It's way more cost-effective to put panels on your house if you're looking for solar power, and it's just not practical to have them on the car if the goal is extra range - The extra weight would likely eliminate any extra range you'd get.

My detailed analysis and answer is here: https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-Te..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=3958035959

Thanks. I'll buy the limited output and limited increased range, but with the new flexible panels, extra weight is negligible now. Here's a 130W panel that weighs 1.7kg
https://www.solbian.eu/en/4-flexible-solar-panels?utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/

 

[JOhnH]

Thanks. I'll buy the limited output and limited increased range, but with the new flexible panels, extra weight is negligible now. Here's a 130W panel that weighs 1.7kg
https://www.solbian.eu/en/4-flexible-solar-panels?utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/

That's 8 sq feet that can power a couple of incandescent light bulbs.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

So you moved your tailpipe to a different place?
Also you know those batteries are rather nasty to make a dispose of.

Personally I like my V8s and forced induction, I can refuel in a minute or two and go over 300mi and that’s having fun driving, electric is cool for a golf cart or quad copter though

Drive a Model S P100D. No lag (the "instantest power" gasoline engine you've ever driven behind pales in comparison) and sub-3-second 0-60 without any fuss whatsoever.

 

[gkainz]

That's 8 sq feet that can power a couple of incandescent light bulbs.

I am coming from the RV mindset only here, so that's why I'm asking. A couple of these handle recharging my RV battery banks nicely. Granted, they're powering a significantly lower draw than driving motors. Oh, and my incandescent light bulbs have been swapped out for LED panels/clusters quite some time ago.

 

[James331]

Drive a Model S P100D. No lag (the "instantest power" gasoline engine you've ever driven behind pales in comparison) and sub-3-second 0-60 without any fuss whatsoever.

I had a powerwheels as a kid in the 80s that my dad put a car battery in, Ive driven electrics before. And I’ve also got time on crotch rockets that are a good bit faster.

That said those cars are pretty heavy and outside of drag racing they ain’t too impressive on the track, plus the major quality control issues that they seem to have faced.

I don’t live and work in a city like SFO or SEA so for me I need the range and quick refuel time that electrics just don’t have yet. Cool tech for sure, but for me the battery tech just isn’t there for it to be anything more than a novelty item for me.