Home Breaker Panel - Riddle Me This!

Jim_CAK said:
In the case where you add a ground rod and isolate the ground bus on the sub panel, do you still tie the ground wire from the main panel to the ground bus in the sub panel? Is there a potential for "potential" between the grounds with house wiring?
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The ground in the garage is isolated from the "neutral" and is connected to a ground rod just outside the garage and the ground in the main panel.

There could be a small potential, but apparently it isn't a big issue.
 
I just worked on the RV panel. This is how it is now:

21176011996_784435871d_z.jpg


1) I installed the ground buss in the lower right and ran all the grounds to it.

2) I removed the green bonding screw - thanks 3393RP!

21015792219_7e440bc6f5.jpg


3) I applied anti-oxidant paste to all the aluminum wires at their respective lugs.

4) Shortened up a few of the wires and tried to keep things looking orderly.

Turned the breaker at the house back on and everything works.

If I do decide on a ground rod (or two) they suggest "6 copper wire and I have two slots available on the ground buss. Still researching the advisability of that, but it seems like its recommended.

Thanks for all the guidance so far - feel like I'm learning something!
 
Unbeliever said:
You don't want to do mid-cable stripping like that.
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Thanks, Carlos.

It's one of those things that seems fine from a mechanical, electrical and logical sense - but I can see how it could be an issue if someone unfamiliar disconnected the hot at one lug and missed its other connection.

I have a couple different ways I can energize the other buss if I ever need the extra slots. Most likely would be hooking the two buss lugs together and backfeeding them through a single 50A breaker, also providing a single cutoff.

On a similar note, rewiring my 10 (I miscounted before) miswired outlets is proving to be a real PITA. Thinking about it, I could have just switched the black and white wires at the panel and accomplished the same thing. But what a nightmare - and safety hazard - that could be for someone coming along later - or even me a few years down the road when I might have forgotten the logic behind the change.

I can see how standardization is a good thing here!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I did a box recently too, check it out! Gotta say I'm feelin' like I'm pretty hot stuff; have a look.
Whatd'ya think, uh?uh? Isn't that the finest piece of Sparkyism you've seen? Now don't get all nitpicky on me, you know it's awesome!
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Sweet. Reminds me of the wiring behind the panel of my airplane.
 
FastEddieB said:
Thanks, Carlos.

It's one of those things that seems fine from a mechanical, electrical and logical sense - but I can see how it could be an issue if someone unfamiliar disconnected the hot at one lug and missed its other connection.
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From a regulatory perspective the issue is that it would be difficult to achieve the required 2/3 wrap around a screw terminal.

I have a couple different ways I can energize the other buss if I ever need the extra slots. Most likely would be hooking the two buss lugs together and backfeeding them through a single 50A breaker, also providing a single cutoff.
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That's what I recommend. That way you could even have more than 6 branch circuits in that box (using double breakers).

On a similar note, rewiring my 10 (I miscounted before) miswired outlets is proving to be a real PITA. Thinking about it, I could have just switched the black and white wires at the panel and accomplished the same thing. But what a nightmare - and safety hazard - that could be for someone coming along later - or even me a few years down the road when I might have forgotten the logic behind the change.
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You did it the right way. Having black neutrals and white "hot" wires is very much a code issue as well as a confuser for anyone working on those circuits later.
 
gismo said:
From a regulatory perspective the issue is that it would be difficult to achieve the required 2/3 wrap around a screw terminal.
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Thanks for the input.

In this case, though, the partially stripped wire would be passing straight through a lug, so that would not be a factor.

Moot point, since I've abandoned that plan.

But I'll keep that 2/3 wrap around screw terminals in mind. I aim for about that, but with short, stiff wires and more than one to a terminal, it can be very tough to achieve sometimes.
 
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FastEddieB said:
Thanks for the input.

In this case, though, the partially stripped wire woukd be passing straight through a lug, so that would be a factor.

Moot point, since I've abandoned that plan.

But I'll keep that 2/3 wrap around screw terminals in mind. I aim for about that, but with short, stiff wires and more than one to a terminal, it can be very tough to achieve sometimes.
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As far as I know, there is no explicit NEC issue with mid-stripping conductors. It is done routinely in multi-gang receptacle boxes to expedite installation and reduce clutter. However, it is arguably not consistent with "best practice," and many inspectors don't like it.

It is possible that local code requirements for certain things are more restrictive than the NEC, in which case they would govern.

Conductors to devices in a box should extend at least 3 inches beyond the face of the box when pulled out. If materially less than that, you can extend them via pigtail if there is room in the box. There should not be more than one wire wrapped around a single terminal.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
As far as I know, there is no explicit NEC issue with mid-stripping conductors. It is done routinely in multi-gang receptacle boxes to expedite installation and reduce clutter. However, it is arguably not consistent with "best practice," and many inspectors don't like it.

It is possible that local code requirements for certain things are more restrictive than the NEC, in which case they would govern.

Conductors to devices in a box should extend at least 3 inches beyond the face of the box when pulled out. If materially less than that, you can extend them via pigtail if there is room in the box. There should not be more than one wire wrapped around a single terminal.


JKG
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This feed line looks like a #2 or larger... The lug he is wanting to connect to is a enclosed / full round, lug....

How is he going to "mid strip" that feeder and still pass it through the lug ?:dunno::dunno:..

Won't the insulation prevent that ?:confused::confused:
 
N801BH said:
This feed line looks like a #2 or larger... The lug he is wanting to connect to is a enclosed / full round, lug....

How is he going to "mid strip" that feeder and still pass it through the lug ?:dunno::dunno:..

Won't the insulation prevent that ?:confused::confused:
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I wouldn't mid-strip it regardless.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
I wouldn't mid-strip it regardless.


JKG
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Yeah.. Me neither..

Just buy another lug, drill and tap the hot buss, mount the new lug and add a connector feed to the other buss.. Easy Pleasy...
 
N801BH said:
Yeah.. Me neither..

Just buy another lug, drill and tap the hot buss, mount the new lug and add a connector feed to the other buss.. Easy Pleasy...
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I'm not opposed to mid-strips in multi-gang devices boxes, but I will say that I've never found the time that guys claim they're saving by doing it.

In this case, I'd probably just splice it.


JKG
 
Thanks for this thread. Motivated me to install my 30 amp RV outlet today. I gathered all the parts and pieces I needed a while back with every intent of installing it "soon". The receipt was still in the bag of parts ... Dated 2009 ... Procrastination is alive and well at my house.
 
gkainz said:
Thanks for this thread. Motivated me to install my 30 amp RV outlet today. I gathered all the parts and pieces I needed a while back with every intent of installing it "soon". The receipt was still in the bag of parts ... Dated 2009 ... Procrastination is alive and well at my house.
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Next will be the dump station.

Gottem both
 
I have two . full hook up 50 amp RV sites.... It took a few hours to set up the electrical ,and a few more to install the waste piping, but it sure is nice when friends visit and they are hooked up in a few minutes.... With Full hook ups going for $100.00 a night here in the hole, visitors are VERY thankful..
 
The main lugs in the Square D Homeline panels (Eddie's subpanel) are not rated for multiple conductors. You can't legally use two conductors in them.

A single pole 50A could be used feed a conductor to the main lug of the other bus.

You could also splice two pigtails onto the incoming feeder and hit each main lug or backfeed two 50A single poles for a local disconnect. These insulated power distribution blocks are great for that scenario.

25373D33528F05CF28BF37
 
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Here's what I just did:

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Jumped the lugs on both busses and ran the hot into the bottom of that 50A breaker I already had, so it now serves as a main. Gives me one slot extra now.

I'm just trying to decide if I want to invest a few dollars to replace the double-pole 50A with a single. Don't really need to, but it seems more elegant somehow.
 
FastEddieB said:
Here's what I just did:

21062760769_135f8a6b79_c.jpg


Jumped the lugs on both busses and ran the hot into the bottom of that 50A breaker I already had, so it now serves as a main. Gives me one slot extra now.

I'm just trying to decide if I want to invest a few dollars to replace the double-pole 50A with a single. Don't really need to, but it seems more elegant somehow.
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That will work.. But.... You could save one breaker space by using a single pole 50 amp breaker , which I didn't know existed till another poster showed a pic of one at Home Debit...
 
Tom-D said:
Next will be the dump station.

Gottem both
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Sewer cleanout/dump station went in a few years ago when I got tired of pulling a toilet to run the snake 2x every year ... my wife "loves" the tree that "loves" the sewer line running thru its roots, and she won't hear of me cutting it down. One of these days it may accidentally meet Mr. Stihl when she's out of town.
 
gkainz said:
Sewer cleanout/dump station went in a few years ago when I got tired of pulling a toilet to run the snake 2x every year ... my wife "loves" the tree that "loves" the sewer line running thru its roots, and she won't hear of me cutting it down. One of these days it may accidentally meet Mr. Stihl when she's out of town.
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Copper Suflate.
 
Have you tried watering the tree to stop it from depending on the sewer? I haven't had to cut roots since I put in the law sprinkler system which happens to hit the tree with three different sprinkler heads.
 
yeah, it gets watered from the shrub heads and the lawn's corner heads - it's just a grouchy SOB tree that likes to screw with me. Damn thing has thorns on the branches 3-4" long that are big enough to impale yourself on. I think it's a Hawthorne tree, but to me, it's a son of a beech dammit tree.
 
Sounds like a good case for glyphosate. (tree-hater*)

*if they aren't lifting a foundation, plugging a water system, they are scraping the roof/wall with branches, or randomly dropping refuse like your yard is their vegetative toilet. Did I mention them falling on roofs, cars, people or bringing electric wires down? I say send them all back to the forest where they belong.

edit: oh, and they are a hazard to airplanes, so there.
 
As long as we're on the topic of volts and amps and stuff...

1) I have gotten into the habit of checking outlets at campsites for proper output - 120v between ground and hot, between ground and neutral and 0v between ground and neutral.

Last week at Big Ridge campground, north of Knoxville, the outlet appeared to be properly wired, but my free Harbor Freight voltmeter showed 131.x volts. I figured it was probably OK and plugged in and everything worked without issue.

Question: How much voltage is too much?

2) We're having a new washing machine delivered tomorrow. While at Home Depot, an associate there said a whole-house surge suppressor was a good idea to protect sensitive electronics. Not terribly expensive, but wondering if they're at all worthwhile.

What do you think?
 
FastEddieB said:
As long as we're on the topic of volts and amps and stuff...

1) I have gotten into the habit of checking outlets at campsites for proper output - 120v between ground and hot, between ground and neutral and 0v between ground and neutral.

Last week at Big Ridge campground, north of Knoxville, the outlet appeared to be properly wired, but my free Harbor Freight voltmeter showed 131.x volts. I figured it was probably OK and plugged in and everything worked without issue.

Question: How much voltage is too much?

2) We're having a new washing machine delivered tomorrow. While at Home Depot, an associate there said a whole-house surge suppressor was a good idea to protect sensitive electronics. Not terribly expensive, but wondering if they're at all worthwhile.

What do you think?
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Our power provider gives us 122.5 -123.5 consistantly... The higher the better for efficiency.. Within reason..... The secondary voltage is determined by the windings in the transformer and the primary trunk line voltage 7600v...

IIRC the high limit secondary voltage for utility companies is 128.. Maybe a quick google search will confirm that..
 
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FastEddieB said:
As long as we're on the topic of volts and amps and stuff...

What do you think?
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I had a whole house surge suppressor installed when I installed a new computer controlled boiler. In industry, we use surge suppression on most equipment.

The surge suppressor is about $50 these days so it seems like a good idea but nothing will help with a direct lightning strike.
 
N801BH said:
Our power provider gives us 122.5 -123.5 consistantly... The higher the better for efficiency.. Within reason..... It secondary voltage is determined by the windings in the transformer and the primary trunk line voltage 7600v...

IIRC the high limit secondary voltage for utility companies is 128.. Maybe a quick google search will confirm that..
Click to expand...

Wikipedia sez 120 +/- 5% so you're close. I think electrical equipment design is +/-10% but that class was a long time ago.
 
FastEddieB said:
1) I have gotten into the habit of checking outlets at campsites for proper output - 120v between ground and hot, between ground and neutral and 0v between ground and neutral.

Last week at Big Ridge campground, north of Knoxville, the outlet appeared to be properly wired, but my free Harbor Freight voltmeter showed 131.x volts. I figured it was probably OK and plugged in and everything worked without issue.

Question: How much voltage is too much?

2) We're having a new washing machine delivered tomorrow. While at Home Depot, an associate there said a whole-house surge suppressor was a good idea to protect sensitive electronics. Not terribly expensive, but wondering if they're at all worthwhile.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Supply voltage of +/- 5% is typical, and +10 is OK. If it is below -10% that's a bit iffy, but you are probably not going to find that situation unless you are in a fully occupied campground on a hot day and everyone running their A/C units.

A whole house surge protective device (SPD) is a good thing to have. It needs to be installed in your main panelboard, and SPDs for the subpanels are not required.

Assuming your main panelboard is a Square D unit, this is what you'll use. The device plugs into the panelboard, using two breaker positions. If you don't have any spare breaker spaces, 20A single pole double breakers can be used to gain spaces.

.

Product data sheet:

http://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-QO2175SB-SurgeBreaker/dp/B000CG80KY

.

The surge protective device (SPD):

de76a778-a66b-4d4e-a701-47d162daa380_400.jpg


This is the least expensive solution. SPDs that mount separately require a two pole breaker and a flush mounting plate, while this model plugs directly to the panelboard rail.

.

The remote mounted unit shown below can be installed in a knockout on your main panelboard, but finishing drywall around it is an issue. There is a flush mount accessory panel that provides a finished appearance. You must also buy a twenty amp two pole breaker to feed it.

It has a higher short circuit current rating (SCCR) than the unit above.

.

http://www.amazon.com/Square-Schnei...lectronics/dp/B00CONA1OQ/ref=pd_bxgy_60_img_y

31SkcaGywIL.jpg


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Mounting plate:

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http://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-TVSXRFMK-Flush/dp/B00KCZ56H0/ref=pd_bxgy_60_img_y



.
 
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