Holding pattern or not?

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by jssmith.lh, Jan 15, 2019.

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  1. jssmith.lh

    jssmith.lh Pre-Flight

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    Dumb question from a newby.... So I'm on a instrument flight plan in contact with ATC but not on radar. They clear me direct to the middle part of the T on an RNAV approach and cleared for the approach. I'm a few miles from the T end but in that direction. The approach plate shows a hold if not entering from one of the T ends. Should I have performed the hold? If I'm coming from that direction and a hold is required, why wouldn't I just request entry at the T end? BTW, when doing my IR training I was on a flight plan in radar and had the same situation. Didn't do the hold and the instructor didn't say anything. Thought I would double check against the far greater knowledge here :->
     
  2. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Can you show an example approach please?
     
  3. DGlaeser

    DGlaeser Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Every approach I've seen shows NoPT somewhere if not approaching from the airport side of the center fix. Unless you have to make more than a 90 degree turn from your position to final, very rarely is a course reversal required.
     
  4. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Show us the plate.
     
  5. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    http://www.faraim.org/aim/aim-4-03-14-336.html

    Using MUGYU as your IAF, there is a HILPT depicted. However, the lower left of the plan view shows a diagram that indicates "NoPT" if you are arriving at MUGYU from 181° clockwise to 001°. Using MUGYU as your IAF and coming from the northeast, east, or southeast of MUGYU would require execution of the HILPT.
     
  6. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    I skipped a procedure turn in a training approach, oops. The tower asked me if I was IFR, which I was, but said nothing else. I should have done it, crappy brief on my part. Lesson learned. That said, nine times out of ten they give vectors to final around here, you have to ask for the procedure turn if you want one.
     
  7. jssmith.lh

    jssmith.lh Pre-Flight

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    Here's the plate. X marks where I was when cleared direct PEQIS and cleared for the approach.
    upload_2019-1-15_17-24-30.png
     
  8. jssmith.lh

    jssmith.lh Pre-Flight

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    So yep, NoPT required from where I was arriving from. Also missed that on the brief.....
     
  9. chemgeek

    chemgeek Line Up and Wait

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    If you were north of PEQIS then the HILPT would be required for course reversal, yes? If south of PEQIS NoPT is required.
     
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  10. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    If I were at the X you depicted, not being vectored, I would expect a clearance PEQUIS, cross PEQUIS at or above 4000, cleared Brownwood RNAV 35 approach. Once within 30 nm of PEQUIS, I would descend to 4000 and complete the approach without a procedure turn.
     
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  11. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    He’s north of the fix, needs to go south to PEQUIS, and the approach is northbound, so he needs to get turned around after reaching the fix. I would think the HILPT would be needed.
     
  12. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you’re are X, go to UKUTY, hang a right at PEQIS
     
  13. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    I think the 'X' is with respect to the approach course and not with respect to sector inset (i.e. it's southeast of OKUTY and not north of PEQUIS).

    I made the same mistake at first glance as well.
     
  14. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    I'm confused reading the replies.

    This. Coming from south of PEQUIS, this is the type of clearance I would expect. [edited to correct by deleting the rest of the paragraph]

    From the north, given direct PEQUIS, yes, you would do the PT, but I'd come back with a request to proceed FICCU or OKUTY if that made more sense.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  15. jssmith.lh

    jssmith.lh Pre-Flight

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    I was in the area south of PEQIS. Clearance was cleared direct PEQIS, maintain 4000 until established on a published segment, cleared for RNAV 35 approach.
     
  16. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    You were coming in via a NoPT quadrant (semi-circle, actually) so a procedure turn was not required, expected, or even authorized. I think you already got that figured out.

    Since you self-describe as an IFR newbie, I'll add (even if it doesn't apply) that I see a lot of pilots who brief a lot of numbers but don't take the time to look at the plan view, which I think is the part if the chart giving the most overall situational awareness.

    100EB9D5-5C7C-4DE9-8A25-821159C86D17.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
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  17. aterpster

    aterpster Pattern Altitude

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    IF arriving from the north side you go to FICCU if northwest and OKUITY if northeast and are still NoPT. Many of the more recent TAA IAPs don't have this option; i.e., no T legs.
     
  18. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    Except the controller can send you where he desires to maintain separation. I just go where the controller clears me.
     
  19. aterpster

    aterpster Pattern Altitude

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    I was speaking of procedure design. Controllers do all kinds of things not envisioned by the criteria designers. And, the AIM section on TAAs does explain that ATC may constrain your use of the three arrival areas.
     
  20. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    Sure beats holding because a plane on approach at a neighboring airport has the airspace tied up.