Helicopters in GA

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Nomad110

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Nomad110
Hello fellow pilots,

I'm new to the forum. I usually get my fellow social pilot fix from more helicopter based forums but they are all usually either military or commercial pilots. No doubt I have enormous respect for them but usually can't relate too well. I admire and enjoy the private side of general aviation where flying is done for pleasure and privilege. My commercial pilot friends usually just want to complain about pay and upper management. It's inspiring to hear from privileged others who enjoy our country's greatest freedom and fly for the sport of it. So for my first post I thought I might try to drum up some conversation about private helicopters in GA. Anyone else out there?

My observation:

I am the sole pilot and owner of a helicopter and hangar at a small GA airport which I call home. Since the dawn of time, I have been noticing some interesting behavior around my fellow fixed wing pilots with whom I share the airfield. First I should confess that I do not hold any fixed wing certificates nor have I ever flown one so I can't say I relate to the fixed wing mentality completely.

When I pull my EC-130 out of the hangar it occasionally draws some attention but I don't think its because of her dashing good looks. Occasionally I'll get the smart phone trained on me as I'm lifting off or hover taxiing in as if they are going to catch the next YouTube viral helicopter crash clip. As soon as the blades stop turning (threat nuetralized) I'll get a visitor who invariably will say something like, "Wow neat machine, but don't you know how many moving parts this thing has?!" They look at the helicopter baffled, as if mysterious black magic is the only reason it flys at all, and at me stunned, as the lunatic who would voluntarily pay for it. There is no end to the questions and comments..."Do you know what kind of airplane you could operate for $500/hour? You must have a lot of faith in that turbine because you'd fall like a rock...etc.....etc...."

Now I get it, us private GA helo pilots are like rare zebras but we are just as safety conscious as the best of them. Most helicopter pilots I know are commercial but the few private operators I know hold themselves and their machines to a very high standard of proficiency. So maybe next time you go up to a helicopter pilot on the ramp try and talk about anything else other then what might kill us. :D

Heres a pic of my baby:
EC130B4NNlowres.jpg


Cheers!
 
Welcome to POA! Beautiful helicopter! I am a FW pilot who got a private, then commercial, then CFI add/on about 15 years ago. I took an intro ride and was hooked! At the time I was flying a C-206 and C320 for a job. I mostly got two reactions which you have observed. People either thought it was great or that I was nuts. My first passenger was the other pilot where I worked. As we were about to leave I asked if he had ever been in a helicopter before. He said "yes" but he didn't remember because he was unconscious and it was a medical helicopter... after his airplane accident. He and a CFI had a microburst accident on his second lesson when he was a teen. I knew all about the accident but didn't even consider that was his only other helicopter ride! He had way more guts than I did.

Even though the reason for most people's objection is safety, the main reason helicopter fans don't pursue it is $$$$$$. I was renting an Enstrom which I seem to recall was about $200/ hour. That was in the late 1990s. I thought I wanted to do it as a job. Then I figured out that my future prospects as a FW pilot were much better. Mostly I didn't want to move as I owned a house and I was already around 40.

So I got a high and fast job instead of a low and slow job. I stopped flying helicopters because I took a big pay cut to fly an airplane that was twice as big. I would kill myself or the helicopter if I got in one solo tomorrow.
 
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Beautiful looking helicopter I wanted to get my license for this as well.. Not too many places around here though.
 
Wow, sweet ride. Just don't fly that over people wearing tinfoil hats!

I'm curious, how easy is it to land off airport at your destinations. example: I was chatting with another fix wing GA guy that used to fly GA helicopters. We were talking about rental cars. He mentioned he never needed one because the hotels he'd stay at would let him land right on the property. That surprised me, but I suppose perhaps there's some prestige in having a helicopter parked in front of your business.
 
Nice ride, I went for a ride along in one of those with the Sheriffs department a few years ago, what a day!

Hopefully I will join you as a Heli GA very soon. It is my dream to be able to commute from my home to work in a Heli. The place I work has a pad on top, up until recently they would not entertain me using it but they have reconsidered. Now I just need the FAA to agree and I will start working to get my rating and then get a chopper to fly daily from my home (we live on a small ranch). I only wish I could afford the ride you have!

Rick
 
Thanks for the kind words. She's a 2002 EC-130B4. I couldn't afford a new one so I bought a low time but nearly calendered out example and put her through the 12-year maintenance which is very extensive and expensive. In the end I have a helicopter that is fresh for the next 12 years (minus the engine that gets its 15 year overhaul in 2017).

As for off airport landings...I try to keep a low key. My friends criticize me for not doing it more often. Honestly though, in California it's not very easy. The local government usually pops that bubble with the need of use permits, county ordinances, cal trans permission, Sheriff permission, etc etc. The land owners permission seems to be the easiest to get and carry the least importance. And, if you get all of these you'll still probably fly over the wrong house and end up with a lawsuit threat for causing stress.

There are some places that work great off airport. For example racetracks. Laguna Seca and Sonoma Raceway are both places that I've flown into. The Quail lodge in Monterey CA will usually let you land in the golf course if they aren't having an event. Even then, I'm usually just dropping off family picking up and flying to the nearest FBO to leave her in a hangar. Helicopters are one of the most dangerously delicate things to leave in public. Non aviation folks and especially kids can't help themselves but touch everything. I already have to worry about FBO knuckleheads who have no idea how to move a 5500lbs helicopter around on the complicated ground handling wheels.

They are still one of the best ways to get around. They are a little slow at 135 knot cruise but being 600-800 agl you forget about the time. I can get 3 hours of endurance with plenty of reserve usually. It sips Jet A at about 52g/hr... Cheers!
 
My CFI is also a CFI-Helicopter. He has a R-22, not anywhere as sexy as yours. ;) I'm not aware of him doing any commercial flying outside of teaching. I'd love to give it a try after I finish SEL, but the costs are beyond my current means. If bet the costs are the most significant factor keeping the GA public out of rotorcraft.
 
livitup said:
My CFI is also a CFI-Helicopter. He has a R-22, not anywhere as sexy as yours. ;) I'm not aware of him doing any commercial flying outside of teaching. I'd love to give it a try after I finish SEL, but the costs are beyond my current means. If bet the costs are the most significant factor keeping the GA public out of rotorcraft.
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Yes you could be right. Maybe because I have no fixed wing time I just don't know how green the grass can be...haha. There are new "kit style" helicopters that are getter very inexpensive. I hope more GA pilots look into it. If flown within its means, a Robinson can be a great helicopter. And not to open a can of worms but I just feel safer in a helicopter then I do a piston single. As long as I can see the ground I can essentially guarantee that everyone will walk away from an engine failure autorotative decent to the ground. If the terrain is somewhat flat and clear I can likely save the helicopter too.
 
The grass is green on the fixed wing side based on the fact that you don't have to burn anything close to 50gph to go 135kts with an even greater payload.


We are stuck with needing a runway of some sort however ;)


Really like that Heli, sexy as hell
 
Skylane81E said:
The grass is green on the fixed wing side based on the fact that you don't have to burn anything close to 50gph to go 135kts with an even greater payload.


We are stuck with needing a runway of some sort however ;)


Really like that Heli, sexy as hell
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Well we can do 7 180 lbs adults, carry 300 lbs more in luggage, and have 90 gal to give about 2 hours of max endurance. So we have a 2,156 lbs usable load real world. I'd say that's pretty good compared to a max payload of 2,257 lbs on a Piltaus PC-12NG. I agree with you on range though. We can't fly more then a 3.5 at optimal efficiency.
 
I'm a student in a helicopter program, flying Robbies. I finished my PP-helo a couple of months ago, with the goal of being a CFI sometime in the future.

Beside the fact that the rotor turns the wrong way, what a cool helicopter!
 
Nomad110 said:
Well we can do 7 180 lbs adults, carry 300 lbs more in luggage, and have 90 gal to give about 2 hours of max endurance. So we have a 2,156 lbs usable load real world. I'd say that's pretty good compared to a max payload of 2,257 lbs on a Piltaus PC-12NG. I agree with you on range though. We can't fly more then a 3.5 at optimal efficiency.
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So about 30kt and 20gph disadvantage compared to a Piper Navajo Chieftain, a piston twin with a similar carrying capacity.

Use speed, payload or efficiency as your measuring stick and a fixed wing winds hands down, but stick the utility of being able to land anywhere with enough of a clearing to park the thing in and the hands down victory goes to the rotor wing.


Like everything else in aviation, it boils down to what you do with the thing, there is no free lunch. Not dissing the heli, just just pointing out what makes our grass green, as you know full well why yours is!
 
bqmassey said:
I'm a student in a helicopter program, flying Robbies. I finished my PP-helo a couple of months ago, with the goal of being a CFI sometime in the future.

Beside the fact that the rotor turns the wrong way, what a cool helicopter!
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That's great! Congrats! What would you like to do in helicopters? Oh and the rotor turning the wrong way isn't an issue. The pedals still do the same thing...it's just your right pedal becomes your power pedal. You don't even think about it. You just react to the ship.
 
Skylane81E said:
So about 30kt and 20gph disadvantage compared to a Piper Navajo Chieftain, a piston twin with a similar carrying capacity.

Use speed, payload or efficiency as your measuring stick and a fixed wing winds hands down, but stick the utility of being able to land anywhere with enough of a clearing to park the thing in and the hands down victory goes to the rotor wing.


Like everything else in aviation, it boils down to what you do with the thing, there is no free lunch. Not dissing the heli, just just pointing out what makes our grass green, as you know full well why yours is!
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For sure! You are totally right. On long trips sometimes I wish I could just push a button and be an airplane. It has its perks though when it comes to getting on the go. In San Francisco class Bravo for example you would normally have to call clearance delivery, ground, then tower in fixed wing. Because helicopters are supposed to "avoid the flow of fixed wing traffic" we just call tower and get on the go. In fact he usually gives me my squawk code in the air. It's a benefit also from them being used to getting emergency services heli's in the air ASAP... Nothing about what I do is ever in a hurry haha.
 
I'm jealous of the helo guys... even the ones flying beat R22's

I haven't pursued the rating because fixed wing is so much less expensive. I will do it eventually. I have never even flown in a helicopter.
 
I have a feeling though that guys in fixed wing who do get into helos wouldn't sell their fixed wing ships to only have a helo. Depending on your mission I feel like you think of the helicopter as a toy/fun only and the plane as essential. Am I right?
 
Nomad110 said:
That's great! Congrats! What would you like to do in helicopters?
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Get paid to fly. :)

I have several thoughts about what I would like to do in helicopters, but no one definitive answer. Not for lack of enthusiasm, but because there are just so many cool aircraft I want to fly and interesting things to do with them.

I think I'd like to end my career as either a medevac pilot, SAR pilot, LE pilot, or test pilot. Between now and then I'd like to do just about anything. The jobs are so varied that I think I'd enjoy the unique challenges of any of them, even the relatively mundane ones.

At some point I'd really like to get a job flying a Hughes 500 variant and/or a Huey variant. Those are two helicopters I've always loved and it would be great to get to fly them before retiring to a cushy job flying something more modern.

Nomad110 said:
The pedals still do the same thing...it's just your right pedal becomes your power pedal.
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Sounds broken, you should have a mechanic check that out. :lol:
 
Nomad110 said:
I have a feeling though that guys in fixed wing who do get into helos wouldn't sell their fixed wing ships to only have a helo. Depending on your mission I feel like you think of the helicopter as a toy/fun only and the plane as essential. Am I right?
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Of what I could afford a heli would be a toy, I could get an R22 or one of the smaller EAB helis and have a hell of a lot of fun with it. However the reduced speed, payload and range would keep it squarely in the "just have fun" category.

There are lots of helis with similar performance to my 182, I just can't afford them!
 
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Nomad110 said:
I have a feeling though that guys in fixed wing who do get into helos wouldn't sell their fixed wing ships to only have a helo. Depending on your mission I feel like you think of the helicopter as a toy/fun only and the plane as essential. Am I right?
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I'd say no for me. The airplane isn't essential for anything other than mental well-being (grin) and neither would a heli be. I haven't got anywhere in particular that I have to fly to. Just places I want to.
 
When I was 30 I made the decision that continuing on in rotary flight would be incompatible with my grandchildren having educated parents. So I have a Seneca II.
But I had a FUN time July 5 in Ontario CA flying around in this.....which are not licenseable in the states.....
 

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bbchien said:
When I was 30 I made the decision that continuing on in rotary flight would be incompatible with my grandchildren having educated parents. So I have a Seneca II.
But I had a FUN time July 5 in Ontario CA flying around in this.....which are not licenseable in the states.....
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:confused:

Please explain, doc. It looks like a gyroplane to me, which we do have here.

Or do you mean it''s not able to be certificated in a category other than as LSA?

-Rich
 
It's a two seat autogyro with a friction drive rotor spinup transmission, powered by rotax, and of course, just a teetering rotor.

It's a riot. Even in emergency mode--> needs about 300 feet and touches down at 30 mph.... :)
 
Autogyros are some of the most maneuverable things in the air. Pretty amazing what they can do. Insane turn rate. Never flown one but I saw an air-show with one doing things I still can't explain.
 
bbchien said:
It's a two seat autogyro with a friction drive rotor spinup transmission, powered by rotax, and of course, just a teetering rotor.

It's a riot. Even in emergency mode--> needs about 300 feet and touches down at 30 mph.... :)
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Yeah, I've flown in a few. They're pretty cool. They're probably the most maneuverable aircraft ever built short of actual helicopters.

I was just wondering why you said they couldn't be licensed here. I know a few guys who own them, N-numbered and all.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Yeah, I've flown in a few. They're pretty cool. They're probably the most maneuverable aircraft ever built short of actual helicopters.

I was just wondering why you said they couldn't be licensed here. I know a few guys who own them, N-numbered and all.

-Rich
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No LSA authorization for this one yet, and no USA type certificate. It's a "Magni".
 
Helicopters are great for certain missions. But IMHO for just poking around the sky and landing at public airfields they are not the best choice for the mission. Unless you are burdened with too much money, operation and maintenance make recreational flying prohibitively expensive. I really loved flying them when Uncle Sugar was paying the tab however. :yes:
 
A few years ago I added a Helicopter rating onto my Commercial certificate. It was in an R22.

It was the most fun I've ever had flying.

I remember a few key differences between fixed wing and helos that really got my attention. One, the old game of "your engine fails, where are you going to put it down?" In an airplane, you start looking for a nice large, smooth field, and have a decent radius to search for one. The first time my CFI-H asked me this, I started doing the same thing, looking for a big field. Uh, nope! You're pretty much landing in a (relatively) tiny circle essentially right below you. BUT, that's not really a big deal, because you also only need a little tiny clear space! Something the size of your backyard will do. A little clearing in the trees. A parking lot. So your options are actually in some ways much better.

I loved "confined space" training. He'd point me to land in a little clearing. From the air, I wouldn't be able to find the clearing he meant, because to my airplane-eye, there was no clearing! The first time, he had to actually fly to the area he meant in order for me to "see" it. Maybe 40 or 50 feet wide between the trees? Plenty of room!

Man, makes me want to get up in a helicopter again. So much fun, so many dollars... :)
 
Excuse my private reminiscing and rambling, but you've got me started now...

My checkride was a blast. From Oklahoma City, we had to go up to Kansas to get to the examiner, Larry Lay. He owned land with a private grass runway, where we did all the manuevers. For the confined space approach and landing (and subsequent departure), he directed me to his tree-lined driveway. I just measured it, 50 feet wide between the trees, and getting pretty close to his house on the takeoff! He owned several aircraft in his hangar, including a Bell 47 helicopter. So it was almost like a trip to an aviation museum in addition to a checkride.

My concept of a proper glidepath on landing has been forever altered by that helicopter training, though. Even now a few years later I still tend to fly airplane finals at a pretty steep descent.

I remember flying one time in that R22 at 3000 feet AGL. It felt really, really weird, actually uncomfortable. And I never really did like OGE hovering, too "unnatural" for a fixed-wing pilot! But that feeling on takeoff, where you just pull the collective up a little bit and instantly you're floating above the ground like in your dreams - THAT was amazing.
 
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I've got a picture of short final into the Princeville airport on Kauai. My fixed wing instincts were screaming that we were way high, go around! But, as it was a helicopter, no problem. :D

Nice looking bird.
 
I really appreciate everyones comments on what it's like to hover for the first time. It's so true...it's magic. That little effortless float up always brings a smile to a passengers face. For me the magic comes in the natural height we fly. I had the pleasure of ferrying the helicopter from TN to CA when I bought it and flying over America at 500-800 agl is a real treat. This is a couple of my favorite shots in monument valley and tahoe.

monument.jpg

tahoe.jpg
 
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