Helicopter Down in East River

Always hated flying doors off in the Army. Too much crap can and will fly out the door. In the past there have been crew members / pax that have fallen out and died. Some cases birds entered and smacked pax in the face. Always the threat of FOD on an LZ flying in there. Just from a pilot performance perspective, you use way more trq and fly much slower. Pax love it, I hated it. :(
 
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SkyDog58 said:
Well, if ever an aviation operator deserved to be sued, this is the one.
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Sadly meaning although these families will be well off, nothing will bring back their loved ones. Just because the top dog wanted to save a few bucks and not buy the proper harnesses and hook knives.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Sadly meaning although these families will be well off, nothing will bring back their loved ones. Just because the top dog wanted to save a few bucks and not buy the proper harnesses and hook knives.
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Will the families be well off? How much liability insurance is there? Certainly the companies have no meaningful assets other than the insurance policy.
 
Clark1961 said:
Will the families be well off? How much liability insurance is there? Certainly the companies have no meaningful assets other than the insurance policy.
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Bankruptcy and selling the helicopters would cover it, if they’re not leased.
 
denverpilot said:
Bankruptcy and selling the helicopters would cover it, if they’re not leased.
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That is my point with the ‘no meaningful assets’ comment. Leased or financed, the helicopters will have little value. Bankruptcy in and of itself would do nothing positive for anyone with a claim against the company.
 
Clark1961 said:
Will the families be well off? How much liability insurance is there? Certainly the companies have no meaningful assets other than the insurance policy.
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Good point, although I would think they would have a pretty hefty liability policy. But who knows...
 
Bill Jennings said:
Good point, although I would think they would have a pretty hefty liability policy. But who knows...
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Before it even begins there will be another 3 or 4 defendents. Where ever the money trail leads them. Before it's over, 2-3 years from now, the families will receive the smaller portion of the award. If the stated firm handling the case is correct their fee starts at 44% of the award. And rarely does a lawsuit award consume a company's assets. That is what insurance is for.
 
denverpilot said:
Bankruptcy and selling the helicopters would cover it, if they’re not leased.
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Clark1961 said:
Will the families be well off? How much liability insurance is there? Certainly the companies have no meaningful assets other than the insurance policy.
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Chances are the companies will have minimal insurance and leased assets. The lawyers will go after the companies and the individuals involved - from the CEO (gross negligence) to the pilots (flying with known safety defects) to the lessors and the manufacturers of the gear. Some will be dismissed, but I'd expect the copter manufacturers to be sucked in for placement of the shutoff valve. There will be some settlement, but probably not what is sought. I don't recall how much was paid after the Dornacker case.
 
wsuffa said:
Chances are the companies will have minimal insurance and leased assets. The lawyers will go after the companies and the individuals involved - from the CEO (gross negligence) to the pilots (flying with known safety defects) to the lessors and the manufacturers of the gear. Some will be dismissed, but I'd expect the copter manufacturers to be sucked in for placement of the shutoff valve. There will be some settlement, but probably not what is sought. I don't recall how much was paid after the Dornacker case.
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Agree there will be a settlement. There won't be much of a cash basis for the settlement. According to wiki the Dornacker settlement was 325,000.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Ok. I must ask. What is the freakin’ deal with shoe selfies?
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Something to post on Instagram or Facebook. :p

I did doors off in Hawaii, but we were told not to put anything out the door, not even a camera. We didn't have those extra harnesses either. But now I see why they are used, if they are promoting foot selfies. You wouldn't be able to turn your body far enough to put your feet out the door with the built-in harness.
 
Everskyward said:
Something to post on Instagram or Facebook. :p

I did doors off in Hawaii, but we were told not to put anything out the door, not even a camera. We didn't have those extra harnesses either. But now I see why they are used, if they are promoting foot selfies. You wouldn't be able to turn your body far enough to put your feet out the door with the built-in harness.
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Though I don’t use either of those forms of social media, I do understand that people love to post selfies on them. But foot selfies??!! Lol, I guess I’m becoming more and more of an old curmudgeon.

And I do understand the need for a special harness and lanyard versus the typical seat belt/harness for that type of flying but there needs to be an easy and quick way for the passengers to release it under even the most dire of situations or circumstances. To me it is unconscionable that those folks were sent to a certain death in water ditching. The operator had a high level of responsibility that it failed way short of. Horrible.
 
SkyDog58 said:
And I do understand the need for a special harness and lanyard versus the typical seat belt/harness for that type of flying but there needs to be an easy and quick way for the passengers to release it under even the most dire of situations or circumstances. To me it is unconscionable that those folks were sent to a certain death in water ditching. The operator had a high level of responsibility that it failed way short of. Horrible.
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Totally agree.
 
Flight Chops has a good video about it. Apparently he took a flight with the same company just a few weeks prior to the crash:
 
Velocity173 said:
Alcohol and sitting next to the fuel valve. :eek:

https://www.verticalmag.com/news/passenger-alcohol-use-shoe-selfies-deadly-flynyon-photo-flight/
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Yikes, there's a lot to unpack there. The company screwed up on the harnessing. The pax was being an idiot. The family is still gonna sue on behalf of the idiot and probably win, since that kind of bush league pax anchoring was a death sentence in a rollover water egress. Personally, I find it a bit insufferable that someone gets to sue someone for allowing their loved one be an idiot and precipitate an emergency in the first place, but ultimately that's the opportunity cost of dealing with the paying public.
 
Years ago at the airport open house at BJC one of the local flight schools was giving helicopter rides. Since these were brief, they were escorting passengers out to the chopper while the blades were still turning. This was fine until one woman decides that she was going to use the cyclic as a convenient handle to pull her self into the seat. The pilot (the DPE who gave me my checkride) said it took all his strength to keep her from moving it. This was before he started getting real careful after a student crashed on a private checkride in a 152 and ended up breaking his back.
 
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