Heard on the air....

wsuffa

wsuffa

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Display name:
Bill S.
" Fort Worth Center, N1234 would like VOR flight following"....

" Center, N345AB is just off of Nowhereville would like to pick up IFR to Austin." "N345AB, do you have a flight plan on file, I see nothing here". "Negative, sir, but we'd like IFR" (Hey Folks... there was a FORECAST of IFR conditions and Airmets - FILE IN ADVANCE!!!)

And we wonder why some GA gets a bad rap sometimes....
 
Jeez Ive been hearing people get the runaround even when they have filed but want to pickup clearance airborne when its busy, can't imagine just coldcalling them without filing! Ah well, more fodder for that atc columnist on avweb.
 
OK, here's mine from this morning:

Stinson 123: "Orlando ground, Stinson 123 at Showalter with Whiskey, ready for taxi, VFR northwest."
Ground: "Stinson 123 taxi to runway 7."
Stinson 123: "Stinson 123"
Ground: "Stinson 123, I need you to say the runway assignment."
Stinson: 123: "OK. Stinson 123."
Ground: "Stinson 123, taxi to runway 7. You need to repeat the runway assignment."
Stinson 123: "Stinson 123 cleared to taxi."
Ground: "Stinson 123. You have to say the runway your clearance is for. Stinson 123, taxi to runway 7."
<THE LIGHTBULB FINALLY COMES ON>
Stinson 123: "Stinson 123 cleared to taxi to runway 7."
 
My personal favorite from New York Approach:

"All VFR traffic maintain radio silence until further advised".
 
I would laugh, but my last time into PNE I contributed to a poor controller's heartburn myself :(

Philly approach had warned me that there was an airplane with a similar call sign heading for PNE(I was Tiger 950TE, the other plane was Tiger 937TE) that had confused him. He turns me over to PNE tower, and I hear PNE having issues with some guy who couldn't follow directions, kept calling traffic well above the airspace (finally met with HE'S NOT IN MY AIRSPACE AND NOT A FACTOR FOR YOU SO I DON'T CARE), and who, despite repeated instructions when to turn base started to turn at the normal point and almost turned in front of a jet. While this was going on, I called in before I entered the "D" space, and promptly told the controller I was "5 miles east.... no west!" "Which is it??! Where are you?" Sigh :( Fixed that, then a minute later he was trying to call me to tell me where he wanted to go (well, where to fly, frankly he was to professional to tell me where he wanted me to go:rofl: ). I flat couldn't hear who he was calling. We were getting bounced around, and all I could hear was "Tiger ***TE," Tig** ****E," etc. Poor guy had to try three times to tell me to head north, which positioned me beautifully for a left downwind entry. Meanwhile, he's directing a Bonanza to the right downwind for the same runway, another jet for a straight-in, and 937TE finally showed up headed for the airport. Meanwhile, the yahoo who had caused issues earlier had to be handheld off the runway. The controller tells me to watch for the Bonanza, and follow him in. To my horror, I couldn't see the Bonanza anymore, and simply could not pick him out of the background. I figured he was already well on final and I should be turning base, so I had to ask the poor controller to call my base. Big sigh from him... "turn base now... # 2 to land." I knew he had a jet behind me, so I was really hoping I didn't screw him up again. Finally saw the Bonanza as he crossed the numbers, and was cleared to land. I landed, and as I turned off the runway I was told to call ground, but don't stop while I did so and to clean up the plane on the roll. The jet that had almost gotten run into earlier had been waiting to cross the runway, and they cleared him across right behind me before the second jet landed.

I thanked the controller for his help, the Bonanza driver told him good job, and a jet chased me all the way to parking. Poor guy was busy, and I just added to his troubles. I definately need more practice at a controlled field :(
 
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During checkride prep, enroute to the practice area, we heard the following; "Willow Run Tower, helicopter NXXX, would like to go over to the insititute... is that okay?"... silence..... "Willow Run Tower, helicopter NXXX student, um, my instructor said I could go to the school, do I have permission?"...silence..... "WIllow Run, Helicopter solo student from Mettetal, can I come in?"..... rolling our eyes between laughs, my CFI responds "helicopter calling Willow Run, Cessna 230.... you are still on the Mettetal CTAF....."
 
Joe,

Don't know about PNE, but that's a fairly normal day at Long Beach [LGB]. Sometimes I'm just amazed how the controllers stay glued together there. They have to deal with two major intersecting runway operations 95% of the time (25L and 30) and a third runway (25R) on a different frequency. (And, yes, when it finally calms down, I think it's nice to thank them for their hard work too.)

I had a few occasions where the pattern has gotten FUBAR, with too much aluminum (3 or more) approaching the same point in space at the same time, at which point if I'm confident there's no one behind me I'll volunteer for a 360 or two for spacing, if needed (I figure I can pull a 360 much easier than an A320). They usually have taken me up on the offer.

Jeff
 
Bonanza said:
Frazzled controller - high pitched voice...
"All aircraft, hold your position!!!"
Stephen
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The last sunny day I was over to Arlington AWO there was no tower, no radar, no ATC. they were running a 800' L/H pattern for 29, and a 1000' L/H pattern running for 34. towing gliders off the 34R grass, ultra lights working a tight pattern off the decommishioned runway,(SSW/NNE)

there was at least 20 aircraft in the traffic not a problem.

coming home (18 minute flight to the west) I make the first call "super cub N4315 departing 34, left turn out departing west, off the cross wind".

I poke it to it, and set up a 65 mph climb and by the time I am at the 16 numbers I'm at 1300' turning west.

5-7 miles west I set 120.7 (whidbey app.) on the comm. and listen. nothing----nothing----nothing. I key and say" Super cub 4315 off Arlington direct Wes Lupien" --- nothing----wait----then I hear "Super cub Ident" I push the button,

15-20 seconds "Super cub say N Number" --- "N4315".

I hear-- "Oh Roger, sorry, we were getting coffee, you are 5 miles east of 76S, there is no traffic between you and the airport have a nice day."

I say simply " Thanks"

God I'm Glad I don't fly where you guys do.
 
That guy on Avweb really does seem to hate his job. Does he EVER have anything good or nice to say? Must be alot of fun at home.
 
As a relatively new and lower time IFR pilot I kind of like Don Brown's articles. I've learned a lot about airspace and how things work in the system from them.
 
ErikU said:
That guy on Avweb really does seem to hate his job. Does he EVER have anything good or nice to say? Must be alot of fun at home.
Click to expand...
Do you mean Don Brown?

Because I rather enjoy his writing. I think its important for us to understand as much as we can about the perspective of those who watch out for us from the ground. :)
 
He's both, he teaches an awful lot but he also gets 'emotional' about things that drive him nuts!
 
Don has a lot to offer, but has sometimes taken positions on things that just don't apply in other Class B or Center areas. Couple of times, folks have pointed out how much things were different in other areas and he's just replied they were wrong and were supposed to do it "his" way.

Have upmost respect for him, his experience, knowledge level, and dedication. Once in a full moon, it would help if he realized the universe didn't not revolve around Hotlanta Center :D

And geesh, the manner in which Charlotte is controlled is nuts. Maybe that's part of the reason for the stress out there.

That being said, really enjoy his columns and have picked up several pointers--wish some others would. Like the guy calling in for VFR flight following: it would save everyone time if the first time call would be "Hotlanta Center, Nxxxxx requesting flight following. Center would immediately know what the request was and wouldn't be looking all over to see if it was IFR traffic checking in that had not been properly handed off. VFR traffic calling in to request flight following when there is a lot of traffic and weather is bad can cause some real frustration if they are not short, organized and professional in their calls.

Best,

Dave
 
One of our local air ambulance pilots heard on the frequency with ABQ center (in a very unprofessional, tacky tone)
" Albuquerque Center, Lifeflight xxxx; just curious why you have us on vectors for restricted airspace and I got a Southwest jet on my right side heading straight for it, what gives?
Controller obviously confused, "ah well, say again"
(Lifeflight repeats)
Controller- "Well he is heading over to join J86 and will be turning soon"
Lifeflight-- (still tacky) "yea sure, OK"

Not very professional, if I were his boss and heard that, he would be unemployed.
Don
 
wsuffa said:
And we wonder why some GA gets a bad rap sometimes....
Click to expand...

Summer Open Day at PTK. South runway (9R-27L) is closed to general traffic for the airshow. North runway is still open (9L-27R). PTK is Class-D, and was running split towers during the show (no turns between runways, no turns south of the runway centreline without ATC permission etc). As a 40 something hour student, I was smashing some bugs in the pattern at the time when ATC calls :

Cessna 2AF, turn immediate left to 360 and climb to 3000. I will advise shortly.

Machine Gun commands then ensue, with a lot of attempts to talk to 'Unidentified Ercoupe'.

A few minutes later he comes back to me (after shuffling half a dozen people around the sky) and guides me back to the pattern.

Turns out a couple of old salts had decided to check out the airshow, and jumped in the Ercoupe, flown over to PTK, lotiered over the show for a few minutes and then (apparently) landed on the south runway and taxied over to the show - oblivious of the chaos that ensued. No radios, no communication, just breeze into the middle of a class-D at the height of an airshow...

The tower guys earnt their money that day !
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Once in a full moon, it would help if he realized the universe didn't not revolve around Hotlanta Center :D
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What? It doesn't? When I first moved here, one of the first jokes I heard was that when people died, they all had to change planes in Atlanta.:rolleyes:


-Rich
 
rpadula said:
What? It doesn't? When I first moved here, one of the first jokes I heard was that when people died, they all had to change planes in Atlanta.:rolleyes:


-Rich
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and in the olden days there was the same quip, but substitute "trains" for "planes."
 
rpadula said:
What? It doesn't? When I first moved here, one of the first jokes I heard was that when people died, they all had to change planes in Atlanta.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

:target:

Yup, then for many it's on to O'Hare:

"...Hell, which as every frequent traveler knows, is in Concourse D of O'Hare Airport." - Dave Barry


Jeff
 
NC19143 said:
God I'm Glad I don't fly where you guys do.
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And I'm glad I fly where you do. We really do live in the best part of the country (even with all rain :D ).
 
NC19143 said:
Did you see the web cam pictures for today at Mt. St
Helens,,, ?

That's liquid sunshine.
Click to expand...

This is what it looked like last October just as things were starting to get interesting this go around.

We do have some interesting things to look at from the air around here.
 
SJP said:
Machine Gun commands then ensue, with a lot of attempts to talk to 'Unidentified Ercoupe'.

Turns out a couple of old salts had decided to check out the airshow, and jumped in the Ercoupe, flown over to PTK, lotiered over the show for a few minutes and then (apparently) landed on the south runway and taxied over to the show - oblivious of the chaos that ensued. No radios, no communication, just breeze into the middle of a class-D at the height of an airshow...

The tower guys earnt their money that day !
Click to expand...
And I am sure the FAA delivered the proper 90 day suspension. You can't get remedial if not solo, and these guys needed their nuts busted.

Man I am NOT in a charitable mood tonight.
 
Sigh, I know I'm gonna hear it for this one, but here goes...

I was doing touch and go practice with a student pilot last year when Denton Muni (DTO) got their tower going for the first time, and they were just up and running, but with no RADAR in the cab, so it was all position reporting when calling up.

Anyway, as we were in downwind, an airplane (I forget the type) calls up and says:

Lost airplane: "um, we're west of the airport, we want to come in and land."
Tower: "say distance and altitude"
Lost airplane: "um ,we're at 2,000ft, but I don't know how far we are, we didn't bring our handheld GPS."

Sigh... I look at my student and say, "and this is why we learn how to fly without depending on GPS."

:D
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Jeez Ive been hearing people get the runaround even when they have filed but want to pickup clearance airborne when its busy, can't imagine just coldcalling them without filing! Ah well, more fodder for that atc columnist on avweb.
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At my airport (PHN), which is an uncontrolled field, there is a GCO on 121.725 but it's never worked for me. Some years ago there was a direct radio link on the field to Lansing FSS but no one wanted to pay for it so it was decommissioned and the GCO was installed. That thing has been in service (if you can call it that) for years now and every time I've tried to use it to pick up a clearance it either wouldn't do anything or it would keep hanging up on me. I've made one complaint after another about it but nothing has ever been done to fix it. So, when I file IFR I either have to pick up my clearance in the air from Selfridge Approach or by cell phone. Often times Selfridge doesn't have the info on my flight plan, even when it's been filed hours before departure, so they usually have me limited to VFR while they call to to get the data on my flight plan. It would appear that the communication process between FSS and the military control facilities could use a little improvement as well.

As for the GCO, I don't understand why they leave that junk there and keep publishing it when it never works.

Jeannie
 
Once while on a flight somewhere with a friend we heard a controller ask another pilot who was IFR to say altitude. The guy answered "altitude", the controller then said "can you now say cancel IFR". Sometimes it just doesn't pay to be a smart a$$.

Jeannie
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I had a few occasions where the pattern has gotten FUBAR, with too much aluminum (3 or more) approaching the same point in space at the same time, at which point if I'm confident there's no one behind me I'll volunteer for a 360 or two for spacing, if needed (I figure I can pull a 360 much easier than an A320). They usually have taken me up on the offer.

Jeff
Click to expand...

There's been many times I"ve done the same thing. I learned at and flew
out of a controlled field a lot and you learn to stay alert, form a picture
in your own mind of what's going on and be able to change your plan
at any point. They must have done training of new controllers because
you'd hear new voices and they'd be working themselves into a corner
and then you could tell when the light went on upstairs and they were
trying to figure out how to get out of it. I'd always volunteer to go
around, or do a 360, or break off and re-enter the pattern. When
it comes to getting everyone on and off the ground safely .. we're all
on the same team.
 
Maverick said:
Once while on a flight somewhere with a friend we heard a controller ask another pilot who was IFR to say altitude. The guy answered "altitude", the controller then said "can you now say cancel IFR". Sometimes it just doesn't pay to be a smart a$$.

Jeannie
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Hey, where have I seen that before???

Oh yeah... :)

Click the pic to visit... Chicken Wings Cartoons

(Comic used with permission)
 
Maverick said:
At my airport (PHN), which is an uncontrolled field,
Jeannie
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The last time I flew down from Canada and was landing at PHN for customs, there was a heavy overcast with ceilings about 1,500 ft. I was IFR and Selfridge assigned me a GPS approach (can't remember which one) which brought me in on a perfect right base for the wind favored runway. I had been monitoring CTAF and had heard nothing from anyone at PHN. When I broke free of the clouds they cleared me for a visual, I announced position, heard nothing, announced intention for right base approach, heard nothing, kept announcing - no responses. While I was taxiing on the ground somebody came on CTAF and started berating me for flying a right base because PHN was a "left traffic airport".
 
bstratt said:
When I broke free of the clouds they cleared me for a visual, I announced position, heard nothing, announced intention for right base approach, heard nothing, kept announcing - no responses. While I was taxiing on the ground somebody came on CTAF and started berating me for flying a right base because PHN was a "left traffic airport".
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The one thing the FARs have to say about traffic patterns is that you will turn left unless the pattern for the runway is published otherwise. IFR or not, you technically were in the wrong.

Not that being so excuses bad radio procedures...
 
You're right, its in FAR and its AIM 4-3-4 (c). In any event, I always fly left turns, and if there had been anybody in the vicinity I would have crossed midfield, but it just seemed like such a waste of time when no one was moving that day. I suppose I could have swung way out to the left and then announced a straight in approach.
 
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bstratt said:
Is it mandatory? I thought it was a strong suggestion? In any event, I nearly always do, and if there had been anybody in the vicinity I would have crossed midfield, but it just seemed like such a waste of time when no one was moving that day. I suppose I could have swung way out to the left and then announced a straight in approach.
Click to expand...

It's mandatory that you make all turns to the left in the pattern (except the ubiquitous 45 entry to downwind which requires a right) unless the airport has right traffic listed in the AFD. If you want you can indeed go well outside the pattern (like 5-7 NM) and get lined up for a straight in without violating this rule, but usually I find it much easier to enter the pattern another way if I'm flying perpendicular to the runway. I'm puzzled as to what instrument approach would put you on a "perfect right base" for any runway at PHN, most lead you towards the center of the airport, and the two runways at PHN cross there.

BTW I know of at least one pilot that got seriously busted for doing almost exactly what you did in the presence of an FAA inspector.
 
lancefisher said:
I'm puzzled as to what instrument approach would put you on a "perfect right base" for any runway at PHN, most lead you towards the center of the airport, and the two runways at PHN cross there.
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I don't recall whether it's also a GPS approach, but the VOR-A approach at PHN does bring you in on a pretty tight right base for 22. I assumed you were expected to circle to land regardless of which runway the wind favored.

Liz

Edited to add: the one I am thinking of is http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0505/05445VDGA.PDF (from AirNav).
 
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Yep, you're both right. I edited the post. Shows how faulty memory is when you have to make a quick decision. I "remembered" it being in AIM as a strongly suggested, not mandatory procedure. I won't make that mistake again! Live and Learn.

It was the GPS 22 when the active was 28 (which didn't have an approach). When I broke out, I realized about a 10 degree turn to the left would line me up with right base for 28 without having to fly the whole loop.

Shoulda done the loop. My bad!
 
bstratt said:
Yep, you're both right. I edited the post. Shows how faulty memory is when you have to make a quick decision. I "remembered" it being in AIM as a strongly suggested, not mandatory procedure. I won't make that mistake again! Live and Learn.

It was the GPS 22 when the active was 28 (which didn't have an approach). When I broke out, I realized about a 10 degree turn to the left would line me up with right base for 28 without having to fly the whole loop.

Shoulda done the loop. My bad!
Click to expand...

An ASRS report may be worthwhile, not only in the event some of our friends at FAA read your report, but especially because it may help others learn from your mistake and avoid making it themselves.
 
Joe Williams said:
An ASRS report may be worthwhile, not only in the event some of our friends at FAA read your report, but especially because it may help others learn from your mistake and avoid making it themselves.
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This was a year ago. I don't think the FAA would read this post and hammer me now do you?
 
bstratt said:
This was a year ago. I don't think the FAA would read this post and hammer me now do you?
Click to expand...

For some reason I put it in my head that this was recent. I certainly can't speak for how the FAA operates, but I still think an ASRS report may be worthwhile. I'll bet you aren't the only one to have done that. I think folks forget the real purpose of the program sometimes, which is (my paraphrase follows) to help us learn from each other's mistakes.
 
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