HDTV indoor antenna?

Electrical Engineer (BES)
General Radiotelephone Operator License (converted from the old second class)
Amateur Extra (back when you had to earn it)
Radio Telegraph Operator License
Former president of the Johns Hopkins Student Chapter of the IEEE (let my membship lapse after a few years when they wanted real money for it).

Worked a bit in broadcast radio, TV, land mobile, and recording studios.
 
I didn't mention that I also have a GROL. Also, back when there was such a thing as a first class radiotelephone license, I had one of those, which I used to work summer jobs at a couple of TV stations when I was in college.
 
I can fix SOME hi-fi problems if parts and sufficient documentation are available. :D
 
Electrical Engineer by degree, space systems engineer by trade. Had a 2nd Class back in the '70s, when I was a deejay at the campus radio station. And, of course, the Restricted Radiotelephone Permit.

A couple of weeks back, I had to look up the equation for computing parallel resistance. So what I knew at graduation is obviously gone. All I have left is that eagle over the indian chasing the rabbit. And it's worth your life, these days, to recite the wrong mnemonic for the resistor color code.....

Ron Wanttaja
 
Parallel resistance is the reciprocal of the sum of the reciprocals. I may have spent the intervening 40 years in computers and networking, but I've had to use that one from time to time (making a shunt for my fuel sender even). As for the color codes, probably not PC these days: Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly (For Siler and Gold).

The color code is handy for identifying snakes:

snakes.png
 
"Better Be Right Or Your Great Big Venture Goes West."
 
wanttaja said:
Electrical Engineer by degree, space systems engineer by trade. Had a 2nd Class back in the '70s, when I was a deejay at the campus radio station. And, of course, the Restricted Radiotelephone Permit.

A couple of weeks back, I had to look up the equation for computing parallel resistance. So what I knew at graduation is obviously gone. All I have left is that eagle over the indian chasing the rabbit. And it's worth your life, these days, to recite the wrong mnemonic for the resistor color code.....

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

I won't say the other one I learned for the color code. Suffice to say that it deals with a few super heroes. You could get in all sorts of trouble reciting it in public.

I just needed a 3rd phone with broadcast endorsement to run the board at the carrier current station at WSU. And that was strictly because, "If you are interested enough in radio to work here, you are interested enough to get this ticket." Gee, rules and regs and can you read a meter. Dirt simple. Especially for someone working towards a BSEE at the time.

And I wouldn't have to look up the equation for computing parallel resistance. I haven't had to use it in decades, but that one's simple.
 
When we put up our OTA antenna on the roof of our “pole barn”, the Winegard app showed our best bet was aiming towards Oak Ridge, and we aimed it that way and it has worked OK most of the time.

50098676271_beb8f78c34_z.jpg


Recently, it got really crappy, and going back to the app the majority of the major stations are now showing in the direction of Knoxville. Not sure what changed. Getting up to re-aim it is non-trivial, but may try it tomorrow, or send a friend up there.

The app is pretty cool - you scan the horizon and the various channels show up as “floaters”, in this case 9 in the direction of Knoxville.

50098671686_d5a92bb1b0_z.jpg
 
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FastEddieB said:
Recently, it got really crappy, and going back to the app the majority of the major stations are now showing in the direction of Knoxville. Not sure what changed. Getting up to re-aim it is non-trivial, but may try it tomorrow, or send a friend up there. ...
Click to expand...
The app looks fairly slick, but one of the problems in VHF and UHF radio is signals getting reflected off objects, especially metal. With all those metal panels I see in the pix, I would worry about that.

I suggest that you figure out the directions to the stations you want, draw them on a map, and use that map in conjunction with the app. If necessary call the station(s) and ask for the antenna lat/long. If the app reports the same station at two different azimuth settings, one of them is definitely a reflection. The map will help you figure out which one. It is almost never a good idea to select a reflection when aiming an antenna.
 
As a follow-up, a friend got up on the roof and rotated the antenna about 60° north towards Knoxville. All the channels we watch are much improved. Two different apps agreed on the direction.

I guess the lesson is to check every once in a while to see if transmitter location or frequency allocation has changed for your area. Certainly the first thing to check if your reception gets wonky.
 
flyingron said:
Parallel resistance is the reciprocal of the sum of the reciprocals. I may have spent the intervening 40 years in computers and networking, but I've had to use that one from time to time (making a shunt for my fuel sender even). As for the color codes, probably not PC these days: Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly (For Siler and Gold).

The color code is handy for identifying snakes:

snakes.png
Click to expand...


You learned a more PC version than I did. Consider which color signifies zero.
 
The color code isn't only used for resistors, though. Some connectors, for example, come with colored pigtails where the wire colors match the connector pin numbers.
 
I have used my VHF analog antenna mounted in the attic since broadcast HDTV replaced analog. Pointed in the right direction, towards the transmitting towers, no issues.

Still using it. Two years ago Xfinity put fiber Internet in our neighborhood, and I've been using that for Internet. Bundled in with the package is TV service I didn't need and couldn't use.

Flash forward to a week ago. New television. Streaming capability. Just connected a network cable from the wireless router to the TV and now there are a gazillion channels including the broadcast ones, but now they don't freeze. Still using the antenna as a backup.
 
Half Fast said:
You learned a more PC version than I did. Consider which color signifies zero.
Click to expand...

I'm almost afraid to ask. The two versions I remember use "Willingly" and "Work", and "Work" was on the worst of the two (neither of which I will repeat in an open forum).
 
I've always liked, "Black brown red orange yellow green, blue violet gray white, gold silver none!" Easy to remember and offends no one... although now maybe we should just refer to "Resistors with bands of color"....
 
Ghery said:
I'm almost afraid to ask. The two versions I remember use "Willingly" and "Work", and "Work" was on the worst of the two (neither of which I will repeat in an open forum).
Click to expand...


The code colors start out with
0 - Black
1 - Brown
2 - Red
.
.
.

The mnemonic "Bad Boys Rape..." leaves some ambiguity between the colors black and brown, and the earlier, less PC, mnemonic does not have that ambiguity.
 
Half Fast said:
..

The mnemonic "Bad Boys Rape..." leaves some ambiguity between the colors black and brown, and the earlier, less PC, mnemonic does not have that ambiguity.
Click to expand...

The ambiguity is addressed in most of those mnemonics by common vowels within the words themselves...

"bAd" = blAck
"bOys" = brOwn
"bUt" = blUe
 
MuseChaser said:
The ambiguity is addressed in most of those mnemonics by common vowels within the words themselves...

"bAd" = blAck
"bOys" = brOwn
"bUt" = blUe
Click to expand...


And red through violet just follows the color spectrum, ROY G BIV. But my point was how the mnemonic was sometimes taught many many years ago.
 
You guys are all gonna her this antenna project done just in time for all the good content providers to be bypassing networks altogether. Heh.

They don’t need them anymore. They don’t need satellite or cable either... distribution is direct now.

Even Google sees it and already wants out of the aggregator game with the massive price bump of YT TV. No money in being the middle man come contract time.
 
denverpilot said:
You guys are all gonna her this antenna project done just in time for all the good content providers to be bypassing networks altogether. Heh.

They don’t need them anymore. They don’t need satellite or cable either... distribution is direct now.

Even Google sees it and already wants out of the aggregator game with the massive price bump of YT TV. No money in being the middle man come contract time.
Click to expand...

The content providers still need the distribution because they force the distribution providers to pay for new and lesser-watched networks in order to get the most-watched networks. It's like protection money. They can't get that extra money if they bypass the distributors. It is a big part of the reason that the cable & satellite providers raise rates so much.

Sports may be the worst of it. They get more fees by requiring that the program be placed in certain tiers so they can charge all the subscribers even if only a few subscribe. Heck, our local baseball networks don't allow streaming networks to carry their programming - meaning the Sling TV and AT&T Now can't carry it even though both Dish and DirecTV can. And those fees are driven by the exhorbinant salaries that the teams pay the players.

Premium services -like HBO- are offering a way to bypass the distributors (for a price) but they have a different pricing model. Groups like Discovery Networks, sports, and others still are trying to get drunk on subscriber fees which they can get from the cable/satellite/online multichannel providers.
 
wsuffa said:
The content providers still need the distribution because they force the distribution providers to pay for new and lesser-watched networks in order to get the most-watched networks. It's like protection money. They can't get that extra money if they bypass the distributors. It is a big part of the reason that the cable & satellite providers raise rates so much.

Sports may be the worst of it. They get more fees by requiring that the program be placed in certain tiers so they can charge all the subscribers even if only a few subscribe. Heck, our local baseball networks don't allow streaming networks to carry their programming - meaning the Sling TV and AT&T Now can't carry it even though both Dish and DirecTV can. And those fees are driven by the exhorbinant salaries that the teams pay the players.

Premium services -like HBO- are offering a way to bypass the distributors (for a price) but they have a different pricing model. Groups like Discovery Networks, sports, and others still are trying to get drunk on subscriber fees which they can get from the cable/satellite/online multichannel providers.
Click to expand...

Think they’re gonna bypass the distribution networks. Example, one of the bundled channels on cable (just an example) would be CNBC. I bet you can’t get it individually from NBC directly on “Peacock”. It’ll be included in the “new bundles” direct from the networks.

CBS did “All Access”, NBC now has “Peacock”, ABC is behind. HBO has their direct distribution as well, and Amazon makes content now and is direct.

The middle men are facing higher costs and lower subscribers.

And yeah sports is a total disaster. Their direct offerings suck and their contract games are never ending. There hasn’t been a way to stream our stuff covered by our weird standalone regional sports network for Denver (Altitude) ever, for years, and they’re in legal battles with everyone.

In markets where Fox Sports is the regional, at least they have contracts with somebody to do their streaming. Usually. Kinda.
 
denverpilot said:
Think they’re gonna bypass the distribution networks. Example, one of the bundled channels on cable (just an example) would be CNBC. I bet you can’t get it individually from NBC directly on “Peacock”. It’ll be included in the “new bundles” direct from the networks.

CBS did “All Access”, NBC now has “Peacock”, ABC is behind. HBO has their direct distribution as well, and Amazon makes content now and is direct.

The middle men are facing higher costs and lower subscribers.

And yeah sports is a total disaster. Their direct offerings suck and their contract games are never ending. There hasn’t been a way to stream our stuff covered by our weird standalone regional sports network for Denver (Altitude) ever, for years, and they’re in legal battles with everyone.

In markets where Fox Sports is the regional, at least they have contracts with somebody to do their streaming. Usually. Kinda.
Click to expand...
Now you know why Comcast wanted NBC so badly. And why ATT got both DirecTV and Time Warner. And so forth. It's not enough to own the pipes - you have to control the content so you can push to your content and away from others. Comcast knew it would take a few years for the others to catch up, which is why they were willing to do the consent deal.

It's a game of the big boys now. Even if the election puts different people in office, I'm not sure any of them can be taken apart at this point. Big media/telecom has both the pipes and the content to influence the electorate should they choose to. It took decades to split up the first incarnation of ATT.
 
I just happened to finish— actually I’d call it more “functionally complete” than “finished”— my OTA antenna project just today. I had an antenna in the attic feeding TVs in the second floor bedroom and first floor family room. We’re not far from the antennas, maybe 10 or 15 miles, but I learned that my house is very RF noisy which resulted in lots of dropouts. I tried quieting down the house by adding some clip on ferrite chokes to the LED lighting in the basement. That helped some, but not enough. So, I put a mount on the roof, moved the antenna and replaced all the coax with quad shielded RG6. So far so good. I fired up all the noisy lights and there wasn’t so much as a pixel out of place. We haven’t had cable TV for at least 5 years. We have a TiVo to record anything over the air, and anything not over the air we can buy on Amazon and save money over cable.
 
wsuffa said:
Big media/telecom has both the pipes and the content to influence the electorate should they choose to. It took decades to split up the first incarnation of ATT.
Click to expand...

We joked back when Judge Greene (sp?) busted them up horizontally they’d just merge vertically. Create a tri-opoly or whatever was most convenient.

Exactly what they all did and added the content provider layer on top for this newfangled internet stuff.
 
bluesky74656 said:
I just happened to finish— actually I’d call it more “functionally complete” than “finished”— my OTA antenna project just today. I had an antenna in the attic feeding TVs in the second floor bedroom and first floor family room. We’re not far from the antennas, maybe 10 or 15 miles, but I learned that my house is very RF noisy which resulted in lots of dropouts. I tried quieting down the house by adding some clip on ferrite chokes to the LED lighting in the basement. That helped some, but not enough. So, I put a mount on the roof, moved the antenna and replaced all the coax with quad shielded RG6. So far so good. I fired up all the noisy lights and there wasn’t so much as a pixel out of place. We haven’t had cable TV for at least 5 years. We have a TiVo to record anything over the air, and anything not over the air we can buy on Amazon and save money over cable.
Click to expand...

It’s amazing how much RF noise a modern house with all these little switchmode power supplies emits these days.

The overall noise floor has risen a significant amount at our mountaintop receiver sites in both VHF and UHF quite a bit in the last three decades, and it’s all coming from the metro blob the antennas are pointed at.

Then somebody slaps a consumer grade AP on the tower that behaves like a diode mixer in the high RF field of our transmitter and creates an even louder mess...
 
bluesky74656 said:
I just happened to finish— actually I’d call it more “functionally complete” than “finished”— my OTA antenna project just today. I had an antenna in the attic feeding TVs in the second floor bedroom and first floor family room. We’re not far from the antennas, maybe 10 or 15 miles, but I learned that my house is very RF noisy which resulted in lots of dropouts. I tried quieting down the house by adding some clip on ferrite chokes to the LED lighting in the basement. That helped some, but not enough. So, I put a mount on the roof, moved the antenna and replaced all the coax with quad shielded RG6. So far so good. I fired up all the noisy lights and there wasn’t so much as a pixel out of place. We haven’t had cable TV for at least 5 years. We have a TiVo to record anything over the air, and anything not over the air we can buy on Amazon and save money over cable.
Click to expand...
Depending on the construction of the house and the RF frequencies of the stations, you and be looking at 15-20 dB of loss having it in your attic, without considering reflections from metal stuff in the attic/roof/walls.

So yeah, a noisy house can wipe it out. I ended up using my spectrum analyzer to narrow down an interference issue in mine. And I added an LTE filter before the distribution amp.
 
I borrowed a Mohun flat antenna from a buddy.

I tried it with and without the powered amplifier. Both methods ended up finding the same stations. Both methods still had the same problems with the same channels.

The tv is sort of a worst case. First floor and on the corner opposite from most of the transmitters. PBS stations are tough, I don’t think they have as much power as the network affiliates. I can get the main channels well, but the PBS stations are pretty week. I can move the antenna around to get one station to come in, but then I lose another one. I feel like I went backwards, having to get up and mess with the antenna.

Overall, it works, but it’s just “OK”. I can try it on the upstairs TV and I think it will work better.
 
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