Harrison Ford does it again ...

Doc Holliday said:
Have you heard some of the newer controllers lately? Standard terminology and procedures are beginning to suffer.
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Oh I know. My brother just retired from ATC at only 50 because of how bad the controllers are getting. I just hope that quote in the article isn’t actually what the controller said. Pathetic if it is.
 
Velocity173 said:
Oh I know. My brother just retired from ATC at only 50 because of how bad the controllers are getting. I just hope that quote in the article isn’t actually what the controller said. Pathetic if it is.
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It would surprise me.
 
President Reagan fired 11,000 controllers in 1981, ATC/aviation suffered greatly. The expertise of these PATCO controllers never returned.
 
Velocity173 said:
Exactly. “Can you hold short on runway. Traffic on the runway.” WTH does that mean?
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The first sentence probably should have been "Can you hold short of runway?" Spell-check software wouldn't catch that.
 
Certainly with his wealth he can afford to pay an assistant who just happens to be a pilot to fly with him.
 
kgruber said:
President Reagan fired 11,000 controllers in 1981, ATC/aviation suffered greatly. The expertise of these PATCO controllers never returned.
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I did a paper in collage on the PATCO controllers about that time. Not my writing but the general outcome.

In February 1981, PATCO and the FAA began new contract negotiations. Citing safety concerns, PATCO called for a reduced 32-hour work week, a $10,000 pay increase for all air-traffic controllers and a better benefits package for retirement.[7] Negotiations quickly stalled. Then, in June, the FAA offered a new three-year contract with $105 million in raises to be paid in 11.4% increases over the next three years, a raise more than twice what was being given to other federal employees. However, because the offer did not include a shorter work week or earlier retirement, PATCO rejected the offer.[8
 
RangeRider said:
It may be time for Mr. Ford to take a self evaluation of his abilities, that time comes for all of us eventually.
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Had an opportunity to work with him recently. Hate to say it but age is not doing well for him mentally. While the motor skills may still be there the mental sharpness is severely declining. You are seeing a pattern, not just an honest mistake anyone can make.
 
Palmpilot said:
The first sentence probably should have been "Can you hold short of runway?" Spell-check software wouldn't catch that.
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Well the “can” needs to be removed for one thing. The other is there is no runway reference. Also, did Ford read back the holding instruction?
 
Velocity173 said:
Well the “can” needs to be removed for one thing. The other is there is no runway reference. Also, did Ford read back the holding instruction?
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I doubt that what is written in the article is an accurate transcription of the radio call.
 
FlySince9 said:
Why would a controller ask that question? Especially with someone evidently on final. Should have been an instruction... "Hold Short of runway XX for landing traffic!" IMO
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Apparently Ford has bad brakes.
 
Palmpilot said:
I doubt that what is written in the article is an accurate transcription of the radio call.
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Which is why I agree with @TCABM that the article is poorly written. It’s hard to discern what was actually said. But, I also agree with Doc in that the phraseology and overall performance of most of these new controllers is lacking.
 
I don't have time to go looking for it, but I figure someone may come up with the LiveATC link to the audio.
 
Are you referring to his age? and just how do you really know his ability?? he might be really sharp, heck I was in my twenties and screwed up a lot, read the NASA callback reports and plenty of airline and corporate pilots make mistakes, any age can make mistakes and we should not make judgement just because of his age, you are ass U ming
 
I don’t know if it’s time for Ford to hang it up but you can see in interviews that he’s just not that sharp anymore. Talks slow, has trouble remembering things, etc. A busy Class D is no place for someone that is starting to lose their edge. What sucks is, unlike the rest of us, if we make a mistake or two it doesn’t get broadcast in the news. Everything he does will get looked at with a microscope.

We all get there at some point and we have to know when to call it quits. I’ll be done flying for hire at 62 and probably will drop it as a hobby not long after that.
 
One thing that is weird is that both article then reference his fairly recent crash which was probably a aircraft or preflight issue. However they don't mention the SNA taxiway landing which seems more relevant to this story.
 
Could also be hearing issue. Pretty easy to pass hearing test for medical; but I know my family is increasingly frustrated, as am I, with misunderstanding them in normal conversation. Some of our supper table conversations these days turn pretty comical. And I'm 20 yrs younger than him.
 
I want to start by pointing out that he is a hobbyist pilot who flies in very complex airspace, so mistakes will happen. Having listened to the ATC audio, I don't think this mistake is indicative of a poor pilot skills or an unsafe private pilot.

But this error is very public, and it comes less than 3 years after another very public error. The FAA will feel compelled to do something.

While it's easy to talk harshly about situations like this, it is import to keep in mind the primary factors that would apply if he was not famous:
1) He is a non-commercial pilot, flying a personal plane
2) Both errors happened in some of the most complex airspace in the country
3) The controller gave him a hold-short order using non-standard phraseology - I may be incorrect on this observation.

For these reasons, I think anything more than additional training would be overreacting and it could risk discouraging future pilots (unless an investigation finds this to be more than a misunderstood radio instruction).
 
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kgruber said:
President Reagan fired 11,000 controllers in 1981, ATC/aviation suffered greatly. The expertise of these PATCO controllers never returned.
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You talkin' about those people that illegally went on strike, believing that they wouldn't be fired? I knew a few of them. There were somewhat surprised, to say the least. That was the end of the tower at AKR. But there's no huge jump in fatal crashes in 1982, and it would be rather unkind to today's controllers to say that the expertise never returned. That being said, I've spoken with a few buffoons, but I only remember them due to the rarity.
 
RangeRider said:
People make mistakes, that’s why they put erasers on pencils. It may be time for Mr. Ford to take a self evaluation of his abilities, that time comes for all of us eventually.
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I watched an interview of Ford (on Ellen) and to me, he displayed some of the speech mannerisms I've seen in people that I know with recent head injuries. It was after his crash, BTW.
 
RangeRider said:
People make mistakes, that’s why they put erasers on pencils. It may be time for Mr. Ford to take a self evaluation of his abilities, that time comes for all of us eventually.
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The challenge of a high profile celeb with a Hoover award for aviation. He's flying in a fish tank.
 
From that clip, I don’t think the controller said “can you hold short” , but “continue to hold short” which would be quite normal in that exchange since Ford already stated that he was holding short. You half to admit, he does sound pretty rough these days.
 
kgruber said:
President Reagan fired 11,000 controllers in 1981, ATC/aviation suffered greatly. The expertise of these PATCO controllers never returned.
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Kenny Phillips said:
You talkin' about those people that illegally went on strike, believing that they wouldn't be fired? I knew a few of them. There were somewhat surprised, to say the least. That was the end of the tower at AKR. But there's no huge jump in fatal crashes in 1982, and it would be rather unkind to today's controllers to say that the expertise never returned. That being said, I've spoken with a few buffoons, but I only remember them due to the rarity.
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And 100% of the were given the opportunity to cross the picket line and return to work. Some did. The others who decided to hijack the economy found other jobs. Their contract and the law specifically forbid striking.
 
Dave Theisen said:
From that clip, I don’t think the controller said “can you hold short” , but “continue to hold short” which would be quite normal in that exchange since Ford already stated that he was holding short. You half to admit, he does sound pretty rough these days.
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My initial listen I heard "Can you", but your comment lead to me listening again, and my interpretation may have been shaped by what I have previously read.

I will withdraw my statement about non-standard phraseology.
 
Sounds like “continue” and not “can” to me and I would not have used continue in that instance. I would have simply said “(type) niner hotel uniform, hold short runway two five, traffic on the runway.

I believe “continue holding” is only used for LUAW at USAF / USN facilities. @Timbeck2???
 
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Have seen many pilots do worse and yet also know he’s gotten into a pattern that’s not great.

His celebrity may have helped the first time, it’s likely to help flame broil him harder this time.

Media is clueless about aviation and will tend toward being more unkind this time.

They’ll rile the non-aviation idiots into an angry frenzy, given it receives any traction with all the other “news” being helpful as air cover.
 
GaryM said:
I don't have time to go looking for it, but I figure someone may come up with the LiveATC link to the audio.
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It would help if we knew what time of day it was. Anybody know?

The tail number is blocked on Flightaware.
 
It would seem no one does any research before publishing an article . if it wasn’t a celebrity it would never have been reported. It may be time for the said pilot to fly with a pilot friend or CFI.
 
Van Johnston said:
Could also be hearing issue. Pretty easy to pass hearing test for medical; but I know my family is increasingly frustrated, as am I, with misunderstanding them in normal conversation. Some of our supper table conversations these days turn pretty comical. And I'm 20 yrs younger than him.
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Hearing aids? Best to start using them sooner than later as it is easier for the brain to adapt to them.
 
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